ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet update

[propsculptor]

UPDATE:
The Progress is coming along nicely and I'll post Photos next week when I have time to take them.

I was also able to FINALLY track down the Real Apple Velcro Tabs that were used on the original A New Hope Vader Helmet to lock the Dome onto the Faceplate, so I will probably offer those to buyers that are interested.

Now here is some very interesting news...

I was able to get ahold of Fyberdyne himself (Mark) and we compared the dimensions over the Phone of both of our helmets and there was a big difference in size.

(First I want to thank Fyberdyne (Mark) for taking the time to look at all the photos of the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet and answering the many questions I asked him.. :thumbsup THANKS AGAIN..)

Fyberdyne originally got his Helmet around 1989-90.

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet as it was told to me has been in the original owners posession since the 1980's.

• The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet is Cleaner than his helmet.
  
• Shape around the tusks Different.
  
  
• There is nothing on the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet that matches the Fyberdyne Helmet, both helmets are completely different (with the exception of the Domes which are similar

According to Fyberdyne, Don Post Studios never had an original ANH helmet...

The Fyberdyne Helmet measurements are:

• Helmet 8-3/4" ear to ear
• From top to bottom 12-1/2"
• Dome 13-3/4 "

ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet measurements are:

• Helmet 9" ear to ear
• From top to bottom 13 3/8"
• Dome 14"

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet is Different than any helmet Fyberdyne has seen, it doesn't look like any other.

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet Dome (Cap) is the same as Fyberdyne's original,
but the Fyberdyne Domes that went out with his helmets are DIFFERENT...

The strip over the top...the cap, the bell, all accurate to the ANH.

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Here are the links to the earlier Threads I posted on the RPF about the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet:

http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...ST&f=6&t=108221
(This is the Opinion Thread on the helmet)

http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...pic=109074&st=0
(The For Sale thread)

http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=...2&#entry1278932
(This is the first Update thread)[/b]

This confirms that the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet & the Fyberdyne are not the same and the "Mystery" Helmet may even predate the Fyberdyne.

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(propsculptor @ Oct 20 2006, 05:55 AM) [snapback]1341429[/snapback]</div>

According to Fyberdyne, Don Post Studios never had an original ANH helmet...
[/b]

I don't want to derail your thread and I may be wrong on this but the original screen used suit was worn by Kermit who was Don Post Studios handyman (correct me if I am wrong anyone). This kind of says that Don Post Studios at some point had the ANH helmet in their posession.

Cheers Chris.


P.S. I have no idea where I got this image so if anyone objects to it being used PM me and I'll take it down.

Thanks Wackychimp

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(propsculptor @ Oct 20 2006, 12:55 AM) [snapback]1341429[/snapback]</div>

[*]There is nothing on the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet that matches the Fyberdyne Helmet, both helmets are completely different (with the exception of the Domes which are similar
[/list]
According to Fyberdyne, Don Post Studios never had an original ANH helmet...

ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet measurements are:

• Helmet 9" ear to ear
• From top to bottom 13 3/8"
• Dome 14"

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet is Different than any helmet Fyberdyne has seen, it doesn't look like any other.

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet Dome (Cap) is the same as Fyberdyne's original,
but the Fyberdyne Domes that went out with his helmets are DIFFERENT...

The strip over the top...the cap, the bell, all accurate to the ANH.

This confirms that the ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet & the Fyberdyne are not the same and the "Mystery" Helmet may even predate the Fyberdyne.
[/b]

Very cool you found Fyberdyne. Congrats .

How are you measuring the height of the faceplate? I think you have to be careful because the neck on your faceplate is longer. How are you measuring the dome?

I agree the Fyberdyne and your faceplate have significant differences. But they also have similarities suggesting a relationship...it is definitely possible given the size difference that yours predates the Fyberdyne. I had originally thought yours was a cleaned up Fyberdyne but perhaps that is now not the case.

I disagree that DP studios never had an ANH helmet in hand since Kermit Eller was photographed at DP studios in the original suit. That brick wall is the Don Post Studio building.

 

[RKW]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

The ANH Vader "Mystery" Helmet is Different than any helmet Fyberdyne has seen, it doesn't look like any other.[/b]

:confused I don't know if the above quote has been taken out of context but I would love for Fyberdyne to come here and quantify that statement.

They simply share too many unique faults not to mention evidence of a dome latch that they have to be related. The only thing you can say is that there is a generation gap in the castings.

 

[propsculptor]

I was aware of that but it means that Kermit Eller had one in his posession because he was wearing it, it doesn't nessessarily mean that Don Post Studios had it in their posession or had a chance to mold it.
(I'm also passing on what I was told by Fyberdyne)

As far as the Kermit photos, I've seen them before, as a matter of fact when I first moved to Los Angeles I interviewed at Don Post Studios on more than one occasion and I even met the family (Don Post's), and recognised the brick walls from their original location in North Hollywood

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Oct 19 2006, 10:20 PM) [snapback]1341434[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(propsculptor @ Oct 20 2006, 05:55 AM) [snapback]1341429[/snapback]

According to Fyberdyne, Don Post Studios never had an original ANH helmet...
[/b]

I don't want to derail your thread and I may be wrong on this but the original screen used suit was worn by Kermit who was Don Post Studios handyman (correct me if I am wrong anyone). This kind of says that Don Post Studios at some point had the ANH helmet in their posession.

Cheers Chris.


P.S. I have no idea where I got this image so if anyone objects to it being used PM me and I'll take it down.

Thanks Wackychimp
[/b][/quote]

 

[Darth Kahnt]

This is most interesting....

I have to agree that I think it is very likely that Don Post had an original ANH helmet at some point.

Could you post pics showing the start and end points for your measurements? And could someone who has a Fyberdyne post pics measuring from those same points?

 

[HAL9000]

didn't some mysterious character called Jeff (or Geoff) say that the original downscaled
Vader mask was referenced from the screen mask and thats how he got his pull?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

So, this helmet pre-dates the Fyberdyne?

 

[SithLord]

Yes it would have been at the time the toy masks were being made, but I'm not sure if they scaled down a helmet or did a custom sculpture for the Toy helmet....I've never actually owned the Toy DP helmet...maybe I should get one and study it.

One key to understanding whether this helmet predates the Fyberdyne or not is whether the latch that was on this one was part of the casting or an original latch...if it was a real latch then absolutely this helmet would predate the Fyberdyne because every Fyberdyne had latches that were part of the casting. But if the size of the mystery helmet is that much larger than the Fyberdyne, that alone seems to indicate that the mystery helmet was cast from something closer to the original than the Fyberdyne.

 

[Gigatron]

First, I just want to state that I don't know (nor care) about any helmet's lineage. As far as that's concerned, I am completely unbiased.

But, being that this helmet is actually larger than the Fyberdyne (my understanding is that generational castings shrink, not grow) and this helmet and the Fyberdyne share some likenesses, wouldn't it be feasible that the Fyberdyne is actually a cast of this one? Again, I don't know the lineage of the Fyberdyne, so I could be completely wrong - I'm just going based on what's here.

It would be great if this mystery helmet had closer origins to an original helmet (mainly because I'm getting one :lol ), but whatever they are, I have full confidence that PS is working to make this the most accurate ANH helmet to date.

-Fred

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(Gigatron @ Oct 20 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1341700[/snapback]</div>

But, being that this helmet is actually larger than the Fyberdyne (my understanding is that generational castings shrink, not grow) and this helmet and the Fyberdyne share some likenesses, wouldn't it be feasible that the Fyberdyne is actually a cast of this one?

[/b]

If the mystery helmet had a real latch, then yes that's a very distinct possibility...is the latch remnant in exactly the same place as the Fyberdyne...for example...same size base impression...same shape...etc. If the mystery helmet has a cast latch, then likely the Fyberdyne and the mystery helmet share a common ancestor...or might even come from a similar mold except that the Fyberdyne could have been cast much later on and the mold had deteriorated (shrinkage). The Fyberdyne itself may have just come out of the mold poorly, causing some of the differences we see...in regard to shape of features. A big question also is to what extent was the mystery helmet itself cleaned up (or it came from a cleaned up ancestor). I've not seen very up-close images of the mystery helmet to be able to say. However, the mystery helmet shows signs of alteration of the nail marks of the cheeks and removal of a latch (cast or real?). This suggests some work was done to the mystery helmet itself....so what was the starting point like? If it was my helmet I'd clear off whatever cleanup residue I found to find out what was underneath.

 

[moffeaton]

<div class='quotetop'>(Gigatron @ Oct 20 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1341700[/snapback]</div>

... being that this helmet is actually larger than the Fyberdyne (my understanding is that generational castings shrink, not grow)...[/b]

Lol - when I read that, an image immediately popped into my head, so I had to photoshop it into existence...

If a recast item GREW in size, you would have seen these things lingering in driveways:

 

[Clutch]

LOL........

 

[vaderdarth]

I don't want this to come off as sounding abrasive, because I'm sure this guy is doing a fine job making it look all nice and pretty..........but anytime we alter something in anyway.........it doesn't take us closer to the screen helmet, but farther away in details. No matter what people might do to make it appear more like a screen helmet............it's still just a very pretty replica and that's all.

Now keep in mind, I love pretty replicas of anything Star Wars......and I own lots of pretty SW replicas........but this project can, in no way, move us closer to a screen helmet.

We can't really even say that something is more accurate, unless we have that "screen used something" in our own two hands if you guys know what I mean???

Now, having said my peace............I'm still very much interested in seeing how this facemask turns out ultimately.

Dave

 

[Gigatron]

:lol Good one, Moff :thumbsup

-Fred

 

[propsculptor]

Yes I am working to make it look more like the ANH helmet and as it was said it won't be closer to screen-used in reality, but the appearence of the Screen-used helmet is the Final Goal of this project.

As far as it predating the Fyberdyne and possibly being the source of the Fyberdyne it's anyone's guess, I'm just passing on what I found out up til now.

Since people are so interested in the latch, I'll go ahead and carve into that area and remove the Bondo covering the latch space and see what I can find & post the results, either way I don't think it will make a huge difference, it's still going to be a really nice Helmet.

<div class='quotetop'>(Gigatron @ Oct 20 2006, 11:33 AM) [snapback]1341700[/snapback]</div>

But, being that this helmet is actually larger than the Fyberdyne (my understanding is that generational castings shrink, not grow) and this helmet and the Fyberdyne share some likenesses, wouldn't it be feasible that the Fyberdyne is actually a cast of this one? Again, I don't know the lineage of the Fyberdyne, so I could be completely wrong - I'm just going based on what's here.

It would be great if this mystery helmet had closer origins to an original helmet (mainly because I'm getting one :lol ), but whatever they are, I have full confidence that PS is working to make this the most accurate ANH helmet to date.

-Fred
[/b]

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(propsculptor @ Oct 21 2006, 12:42 AM) [snapback]1342072[/snapback]</div>

Since people are so interested in the latch, I'll go ahead and carve into that area and remove the Bondo covering the latch space and see what I can find & post the results, either way I don't think it will make a huge difference, it's still going to be a really nice Helmet.
[/b]

Still I think the latch issue is key to knowing whether or not this helmet predates the Fyberdyne...my guess is that it does...keep us posted...

 

[Goldenrod]

Its a nice looking helmet. Very sharp. And i like the slinder neck look.
I don't know what it is about unfinished Vader and stormtrooper helmets....they give me butterflies in my stomach. I feel like i did when the SW kenner figures came out way back in the day. Can you pm me details on maybe gettin one?
-Goldenrod

 

[vaderdarth]

I, too believe the latch is significant to the lineage, but it's not necessarily something that will prove it's lineage either. Remember, when the FD helmet first hit the RPF......it was the only available ANH style helmet we knew of..........it had the latch mechanism on it..........so the presence of this latch could mean that someone might have added it to make it more "accurate" in their eyes............at least as far as we know.

I personally wouldn't go diggin around into the helmet, it looks good and there is no sense in messing it all up when we know that the screen helmet had no such latch anyway.

I'd likely proceed with an educated guess that it does pre-date the FD helmet and just leave it at that. The skinnier neck and larger size is enough to go on that it's prior to a FD or at least it's sourced from one of the many DPS produced "Tour Helmets" out there.

Just my opinion on the subject.

If it ain't broke.........don't fix it.


Dave

 

[GINO]

Jeff W. made the latch version helmets for Steve's lost land of toys. Not sure how many were made but more than a few. The fyberdyne helmet came from Steve's lost land of toys.