The Manlet
Sr Member
:lol
ANH Vader chest box..think i've found the 'source item'
- Thread starter HAL9000
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Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
Good point.What I meant was that because it was made of fiberglass, distortion/damage could occur over time that would render it less than a perfect square as is evident in some of these castings compared to the original.
SHalamar
Well-Known Member
My wife has just started looking into doing her own R2. She's been amazed at the amount of info available there, and OPENLY shared between all the members. Full accurate plans and measurements are shared between ALL members, from the old, to the brand new. Hell, when someone makes a part of out aluminum, they even send out the part to others to cast in other materials! THATS a great club. Friendly, open, and helpful.
The RPF isn't all that bad. Except when it comes to one thing.
Vader.
People who claim to 'know' info, say: 'I know, and I'm not telling you. You aren't special enough. Nyah Nyah Nyah.'
If people aren't willing to share what they know, then don't say anything! Leave the rest of us mere mortals to muddle along with what we do know.
I'm a member on a science board. They have a rule: If you can't back it up with evidence, then you can't say anything, and what you do say, is worthless. Thats what I do. If someone says 'No, thats wrong' or 'I know how it is, but I'm not saying anything', then yes, it IS worthless. Back it up with facts, or don't say ANYTHING.
I've managed to put together a damned fine Vader. And I'm still struggling with a few pieces, because the info just isn't available, and those who claim to know, refuse to speak. What would happen? You wouldn't be special anymore? Someone else might (heaven forbid!) also put together an excellent and accurate Vader?
This is a hobby that a lot of people put time and effort into it. You just belittle them when the claims that they are wrong, you are right are put forward, but no facts are available.
The RPF isn't all that bad. Except when it comes to one thing.
Vader.
People who claim to 'know' info, say: 'I know, and I'm not telling you. You aren't special enough. Nyah Nyah Nyah.'
If people aren't willing to share what they know, then don't say anything! Leave the rest of us mere mortals to muddle along with what we do know.
I'm a member on a science board. They have a rule: If you can't back it up with evidence, then you can't say anything, and what you do say, is worthless. Thats what I do. If someone says 'No, thats wrong' or 'I know how it is, but I'm not saying anything', then yes, it IS worthless. Back it up with facts, or don't say ANYTHING.
I've managed to put together a damned fine Vader. And I'm still struggling with a few pieces, because the info just isn't available, and those who claim to know, refuse to speak. What would happen? You wouldn't be special anymore? Someone else might (heaven forbid!) also put together an excellent and accurate Vader?
This is a hobby that a lot of people put time and effort into it. You just belittle them when the claims that they are wrong, you are right are put forward, but no facts are available.
GINO
Sr Member
For anyone offended, let me apologize.
It was not trying to dangle info although I see how what I said could come across that way. I genuinely thought that pointing out what I did (even though I couldn't divulge everything about it) would still be helpful. It was not meant in a neener neener sort of way at all as most seemed to have taken it.
I struggle with whether or not to interject in posts like this all the time. Mostly because a lot of the time, I cannot or don't want to fully divulge total info on a part or item. But sometimes, I just want to give some sort of clarification or let people know if they are headed in a wrong direction. If not for any other reason than to prevent new prop myths from sprouting up; "obi-wan's saber was made from a bicycle hand grip", etc...
Is it not better to have someone tell you that you are headed in a wrong direction better than not saying anything at all? In my mind, for this specific instance, I genuinely thought maybe I could save Hal from wasting his time or riling others on a crusade that I already know for sure would lead nowhere. I would want someone who knew to tell me if I were in his situation. Even if that's all they could tell me. Sorry Hal.
Some of the people who posted in this thread (jumpin jax, GH, vaderdarth, jorus, etc..) I'm not surprised at all that they would capitalize on an opportunity to get a jab in. It's old hat. Although when these guys post, considering our histories, its very hard for me to let jabs like that slide without getting aggrevated. And when I get aggrevated, my posts come across very a-hole-ish even to people whom its not even directed at. For those who know me well, it's a major accomplishment for me just not to totally unload on them. Regardless, I should not have let them get me so rattled.
Best of luck with your search.
It was not trying to dangle info although I see how what I said could come across that way. I genuinely thought that pointing out what I did (even though I couldn't divulge everything about it) would still be helpful. It was not meant in a neener neener sort of way at all as most seemed to have taken it.
I struggle with whether or not to interject in posts like this all the time. Mostly because a lot of the time, I cannot or don't want to fully divulge total info on a part or item. But sometimes, I just want to give some sort of clarification or let people know if they are headed in a wrong direction. If not for any other reason than to prevent new prop myths from sprouting up; "obi-wan's saber was made from a bicycle hand grip", etc...
Is it not better to have someone tell you that you are headed in a wrong direction better than not saying anything at all? In my mind, for this specific instance, I genuinely thought maybe I could save Hal from wasting his time or riling others on a crusade that I already know for sure would lead nowhere. I would want someone who knew to tell me if I were in his situation. Even if that's all they could tell me. Sorry Hal.
Some of the people who posted in this thread (jumpin jax, GH, vaderdarth, jorus, etc..) I'm not surprised at all that they would capitalize on an opportunity to get a jab in. It's old hat. Although when these guys post, considering our histories, its very hard for me to let jabs like that slide without getting aggrevated. And when I get aggrevated, my posts come across very a-hole-ish even to people whom its not even directed at. For those who know me well, it's a major accomplishment for me just not to totally unload on them. Regardless, I should not have let them get me so rattled.
Best of luck with your search.
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
Or, as no one was planning to use a piece of banister for their costume, you could ignore it and not start mentioning being an unappreciated super genius whose best argument is "because I said so."
Might want to look back to see who chose not believe your unshakable stance this time, last time, the ten times before that, etc. It wasn't me, and the only old hat is how often you assert your expertise. You're the only guy I've ever seen sing your praises.
JJ
Might want to look back to see who chose not believe your unshakable stance this time, last time, the ten times before that, etc. It wasn't me, and the only old hat is how often you assert your expertise. You're the only guy I've ever seen sing your praises.
JJ
HAL9000
Sr Member
Gino,
even if your intentions are wholesome they are still bunk. Your posts have the tone of some dude standing outside a cancer ward, flipping a coin, saying "oh yeah...you are treating them all wrong...I've got the cure but...awww...love to help you but...well I promised someone I wouldn't".
It is a real shame because you obviously have the same deep driving passion for Vader most of us have. You just don't see the bigger picture. Do you really want everyone to start seeing you like the Comic store guy from The Simpsons? Cos that's the voice I am starting to hear in my head when reading your posts.
Like I said a shame.
:unsure
even if your intentions are wholesome they are still bunk. Your posts have the tone of some dude standing outside a cancer ward, flipping a coin, saying "oh yeah...you are treating them all wrong...I've got the cure but...awww...love to help you but...well I promised someone I wouldn't".
It is a real shame because you obviously have the same deep driving passion for Vader most of us have. You just don't see the bigger picture. Do you really want everyone to start seeing you like the Comic store guy from The Simpsons? Cos that's the voice I am starting to hear in my head when reading your posts.
Like I said a shame.
:unsure
CTF
Sr Member
:eek Dude, I think you need to step back from this Vader stuff a bit...
Pretty hypocritical coming from a guy whose "lord and master" is the king of tease and no show, who never backs up his claims, and who dangles something "new" in front of the masses every time his ego begins to wane. I would do the whole pot and kettle thing... but you really only quality as the lid. :thumbsdown
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I don't really post that much, and this thread is the reason why...
It's just worked out that in my career I've had access to a ton of "inside" materials; hands-on with Harry Potter stuff, Superman, Star Wars, a ton of stuff. Hero props, costumes, scripts, photos, castings, etc. Usually in boxes delivered to my studio. The studios I work for know I would never violate a trust.
Nonetheless, if I see a post about something - say a prop I have access to - and I see pages and pages being wasted in pursuit of or testing a false idea, I feel at least compelled to let people know they're on the wrong track. But of course, I can't tell them how or why. It seems to me, though, that people who are truly interested in "getting it right" or accuracy, or even just to know what the deal is, would like to know when they're wrong so they can readjust and try a new avenue.
If someone asked me to prove my source, I don't know what I'd do! I can't send a picture; the proof would be the violation of trust I'm protecting! I guess if someone came to my studio, then... but this has a low chance of happening, so.... I guess once in awhile when something I've done goes public then I get "legit" points (?) or something, but...
My point is people make it very tough for those of us with access to help those without. There's tons of stuff I've wanted to contribute, but who needs it. The community eats its own. THAT's the real shame. And the pages wasted on personal attacks have zero redeeming value, so...
...anyway, back to...
_Mike
It's just worked out that in my career I've had access to a ton of "inside" materials; hands-on with Harry Potter stuff, Superman, Star Wars, a ton of stuff. Hero props, costumes, scripts, photos, castings, etc. Usually in boxes delivered to my studio. The studios I work for know I would never violate a trust.
Nonetheless, if I see a post about something - say a prop I have access to - and I see pages and pages being wasted in pursuit of or testing a false idea, I feel at least compelled to let people know they're on the wrong track. But of course, I can't tell them how or why. It seems to me, though, that people who are truly interested in "getting it right" or accuracy, or even just to know what the deal is, would like to know when they're wrong so they can readjust and try a new avenue.
If someone asked me to prove my source, I don't know what I'd do! I can't send a picture; the proof would be the violation of trust I'm protecting! I guess if someone came to my studio, then... but this has a low chance of happening, so.... I guess once in awhile when something I've done goes public then I get "legit" points (?) or something, but...
My point is people make it very tough for those of us with access to help those without. There's tons of stuff I've wanted to contribute, but who needs it. The community eats its own. THAT's the real shame. And the pages wasted on personal attacks have zero redeeming value, so...
...anyway, back to...
_Mike
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Problem is... it may steer people away from a dead end... but it puts them back to square one... and no real direction to go next. I would rather go to the dead end and figure it out for myself, rather than have someone say it's a dead end, but can't tell me why.
Wow. While I totally disagree with Gino's approach to this, I do understand what he was TRYING to accomplish and personally, I CERTAINLY would rather someone make an honest effort to steer me away from a dead-end than to waste a ton of time and resources when someone else knows it is the wrong direction. While I am all for proof, I am not much on reinventing the wheel. If someone tells me the stove is hot and recommends I not touch it, I am not the type to see for myself. I guess a lot of it comes to the source giving the advice and whether they are a blowhard and only patting themselves on the back or are they truly trying to help where they can. Even though Gino clearly lacks the ability to communicate it well, I believe he falls in the latter category I guess at the end of the day, I would much rather be at square one than running in the wrong direction.
HAL9000
Sr Member
This thread is about a squat little box with bevelled edges. It is not
about something very precise like a 3PO arm gear or a bejewelled broad sword!
Supposing my hunch is wrong, how can you sit there and say that if
I track down (or have made by a carpenter) a box of the same height, width
and depth of the original, with accurate bevelling. Then cast it and make my own. How can you say it is not accurate enough.
It wouldn't matter. It's a box!
about something very precise like a 3PO arm gear or a bejewelled broad sword!
Supposing my hunch is wrong, how can you sit there and say that if
I track down (or have made by a carpenter) a box of the same height, width
and depth of the original, with accurate bevelling. Then cast it and make my own. How can you say it is not accurate enough.
It wouldn't matter. It's a box!
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Perhaps there is a way Gino can tell everyone how it is not a cast of a post top without divulging what the original is ?
I'm not sure if that is possible but it would be more helpful than a simple you're wrong.
Maybe something as simple as letting people know if it was a found item or was a made item would be good and would save people from going down the dead end of looking for a found item when the original was custom made.
I'm not sure if that is possible but it would be more helpful than a simple you're wrong.
Maybe something as simple as letting people know if it was a found item or was a made item would be good and would save people from going down the dead end of looking for a found item when the original was custom made.
vaderdarth
Master Member
Braks, we know you are great pals with Gino and that is absolutely shiny!!! However, what is the problem with just coming right out and saying "you know what, it wasn't a newel post cap for sure because an original member of the design team (who wishes to remain anonymous) told me exactly what was used........they moulded "blank" and I wish I could show you my proof of this but he or she asked me kindly not to"? How difficult is that? You haven't compromised that individual's integrity and yet you were helpful. Nobody cares about what "blank" was, they only care about the finished prop.
I'm a guy who has had incredible contacts thru the years with folks involved in the original trilogy. The funny thing is: for the creation of the ANH props, nobody has been secretive about what they worked on and what it was made from. The vast body of knowledge we have about all things SW Props on this board has come from both documentation and interviews with these fascinating individuals. Do you truly believe that anyone would care, Gino, what fortunate piece of trash bin garbage/wad of clay was moulded to make this endearing costume piece??? Why on Earth would that be a huge secret???
C'mon Braks, you know as well as I do........running in the wrong direction can pay off in spades. You frequently discover plenty of other details even if your current trail doesn't pan out for what you were looking for in the first place. Sometimes it's just the thrill of the hunt. I was the first to discover the red green lenses on this board doing that very thing. I was looking for lamps for the ESB chestboxes and simply stumbled upon the other.
If someone wanted to be helpful, they could offer an alternative idea without coming off as a self centered know it all. It's all in the presentation of the information or lack thereof.
A thick juicy ribeye steak, seasoned and grilled to perfection........hot and ready to devour.............tastes alot better on fine china, than it does served on the underside of a dirty garbage can lid.......(Bill Cosby) Think about it.
It makes perfect sense to alot of us that it could have been some hunk of wood being moulded. Either hand cut and shaped, or a store bought plaque, or a newel post cap, or even a lump of clay sculpted quickly. The wood stuff sounds plausible simply because we know the original rockers were in fact cut wood. Why is that not a possibility? I've made chestboxes for years just out of wood that I cut and shape..........because it's fast and I can reproduce the shape faster than I can lay fiberglass. It requires a table saw, a wooden plank and a belt sander. We know that LFL had wood working tools. We know that the props department made literally every prop with wood with tons of found crap glued to it........and lots of paint.
The only reason I haven't searched for that perfect piece of wood is that I have assumed it was likely either hand cut or hand sculpted. It's purpose was so simple that it's origin was probably an afterthought. I am aware that the sculptor for the armor did not take credit for the chestbox......so I assume it was done at a different time. They may have waited to fabricate it until they got the whole costume together to see how much space they had left. Or it might have been totally left to the electronics gurus. The same folks who crafted the belt. Probably ran out of time before they could add electronics to the chestbox.........we know time was extremely tight.
I'm a guy who has had incredible contacts thru the years with folks involved in the original trilogy. The funny thing is: for the creation of the ANH props, nobody has been secretive about what they worked on and what it was made from. The vast body of knowledge we have about all things SW Props on this board has come from both documentation and interviews with these fascinating individuals. Do you truly believe that anyone would care, Gino, what fortunate piece of trash bin garbage/wad of clay was moulded to make this endearing costume piece??? Why on Earth would that be a huge secret???
C'mon Braks, you know as well as I do........running in the wrong direction can pay off in spades. You frequently discover plenty of other details even if your current trail doesn't pan out for what you were looking for in the first place. Sometimes it's just the thrill of the hunt. I was the first to discover the red green lenses on this board doing that very thing. I was looking for lamps for the ESB chestboxes and simply stumbled upon the other.
If someone wanted to be helpful, they could offer an alternative idea without coming off as a self centered know it all. It's all in the presentation of the information or lack thereof.
A thick juicy ribeye steak, seasoned and grilled to perfection........hot and ready to devour.............tastes alot better on fine china, than it does served on the underside of a dirty garbage can lid.......(Bill Cosby) Think about it.
It makes perfect sense to alot of us that it could have been some hunk of wood being moulded. Either hand cut and shaped, or a store bought plaque, or a newel post cap, or even a lump of clay sculpted quickly. The wood stuff sounds plausible simply because we know the original rockers were in fact cut wood. Why is that not a possibility? I've made chestboxes for years just out of wood that I cut and shape..........because it's fast and I can reproduce the shape faster than I can lay fiberglass. It requires a table saw, a wooden plank and a belt sander. We know that LFL had wood working tools. We know that the props department made literally every prop with wood with tons of found crap glued to it........and lots of paint.
The only reason I haven't searched for that perfect piece of wood is that I have assumed it was likely either hand cut or hand sculpted. It's purpose was so simple that it's origin was probably an afterthought. I am aware that the sculptor for the armor did not take credit for the chestbox......so I assume it was done at a different time. They may have waited to fabricate it until they got the whole costume together to see how much space they had left. Or it might have been totally left to the electronics gurus. The same folks who crafted the belt. Probably ran out of time before they could add electronics to the chestbox.........we know time was extremely tight.
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What is wrong with that? Not a thing in the world. In fact, that is almost exactly what I suggested to him last night as I was being a "great pal" and ripping him a new one for about two hours about this thread.
If it works for you, go for it. I guess, I just hate seeing things like the obi-wan/motorcycle grip myth or the dozen of trooper myths that have been stated and how much time and effort has been wasted hunting for those wrong pieces. Does it mean that nothing good ever can come from such searches? No. Of course not. I just think that many times there is a LOT of searching and hunting and time wasted with no result... Think Han blaster and the whole fire extinguisher tip. That is just my personal opinion though. If you or anyone else wishes to track down every possible "lead", it is your time and your effort. Who knows what you might stumble upon.
Couldn't agree more. I believe the issue here, personal attacks from the same old antagonists aside, is not the lack of information, but the poor presentation of the information that was given.
Ghost Host
Sr Member
Dude, don't blame me for being a jerk. I posted in this thread before you did, and twice was in general support of the idea. The only interaction you got from me was a laugh about your idiotic post. Go cry for attention somewhere else. :cry
As a neutral, being a lurker way before I joined up, the past history between some of the members here amongst their arguments and posts is transparently derailing this thread, though it makes an interesting read even if it's followed past directions.
Many people have chimed in to say if you can not back something up with proof why bother? Gino has given his opinion on why his posts are direct, (if lacking in the knowledge people want to have), right or wrong, some people see things differently. However it's fair to say not only on the RPF but on other forums that members talk about Gino amongst others as having the ultimate ego.
Now I take no sides and I have asked Gino for help in the past. While I found him to be polite and responsive he was also complimentry about my Vader, but he did not help me in my request about the ESB chestbox and it was frustrating. However...I have taken weeks and hours to find out things for myself and learnt more in the process. I also think the community would be lacking without the "bigger characters" in it, where their ego's can bounce off each other.
There was a thread a while back with people actually asking for the Gino vs SL threads. Says it all doesn't it?
There is no doubt these methods of not sharing are unpopular and they annoy the hell out of me, but I would say it's better to say your off track rather than follow a dead end. Yeah sure you are right back at the beginning but you can then take a new path. The only problem is how do we know that one person's word, without evidence, can support the right and wrong answer? It's natural for some people to question this even if the truth IS given and as you say Gino it's amongst both your biggest hope and fear that someone acheives a more accurate and better Vader/s than yourself.
I kinda hope that was a neutral opinion?
Many people have chimed in to say if you can not back something up with proof why bother? Gino has given his opinion on why his posts are direct, (if lacking in the knowledge people want to have), right or wrong, some people see things differently. However it's fair to say not only on the RPF but on other forums that members talk about Gino amongst others as having the ultimate ego.
Now I take no sides and I have asked Gino for help in the past. While I found him to be polite and responsive he was also complimentry about my Vader, but he did not help me in my request about the ESB chestbox and it was frustrating. However...I have taken weeks and hours to find out things for myself and learnt more in the process. I also think the community would be lacking without the "bigger characters" in it, where their ego's can bounce off each other.
There was a thread a while back with people actually asking for the Gino vs SL threads. Says it all doesn't it?
There is no doubt these methods of not sharing are unpopular and they annoy the hell out of me, but I would say it's better to say your off track rather than follow a dead end. Yeah sure you are right back at the beginning but you can then take a new path. The only problem is how do we know that one person's word, without evidence, can support the right and wrong answer? It's natural for some people to question this even if the truth IS given and as you say Gino it's amongst both your biggest hope and fear that someone acheives a more accurate and better Vader/s than yourself.
I kinda hope that was a neutral opinion?
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
That's mentor and devilishly cynical expert to you, former Mouth Of Matt! :thumbsup
Book full of photos, endless answers, dangles shots from the archive proving statements made.......man you're right, what a Gino
And BTW, supporters? Read the title of this thread :
"I THINK I've found the source item"
Does that sound like a definitive statement?
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