Mouse Vader
Sr Member
TABLE OF CONTENTS (added 1.12.19):
Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker.
Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc sound comparison & effect of motor position - New 600 rpm motor ordered.
Page 3 : Speculation on Vader stunt - MK2 test with grub screw holding in bearing & also friction fit motor – Mk1b 600rpm test single bearing – Stuffer driveshaft made & tested with balsa dowel – compared to Alec G photo – beech dowel arrives.
Page 4 : Mk1b tested 310 motor , MK2 370 motor with beech dowel – Mk2 mod’d to take both ball-race & roller bearings – Auto rotation of Kenobi (V2) blade in Cantina scene & discovery of how this works inc tests – diff wood dowel found (Obechi?) - Mk2 test set up as per Jon B’s sketch – trying to taper wood dowel.
Page 5 : More info from Jon Bunker re. Blades – Jon’s sketch tested on Mk2 – Blade through bearing without driveshaft tests – some more motors – scaling photo’s of original stunt graffy & some template PDF’s – starting (& failing)) to do main stainless steel tube for MK1b – starting main tube for MK2.
Page 6 : Cont. MK2 main tube – Mk2 reveal – more on making the MK2 – new main tube layout template PDF – even more on making the MK2.
Page 7 : Cont MK2 build, T-track & clamp – putting reflective fabric on a golf club shaft – re-doing the T-track – thoughts on the Kenobi saber (V2) – observations on MK2 construction vs original inc endcap – comparison pic’s with promo photo re. grub screw – black nose on the MK2 & discussion inc endcap again.
Page 8 : Discussion & comparison of MK2 to the stunt graffy in ESB training inc. point of balance & internals – another new battery pack – comparing original stunt end cap with camera flash endcaps.
Page 9 : Cont endcap comparisons – endcap from plastic pushin type, penny-washer & jack socket – Straightening beech dowel & new stub driveshaft – new driveshaft test with metal sleeved dowel, loosing T-track – simplifying internal wiring on MK2 – endcap fitted with vintage jack socket nut – making stainless thin knurl red buttons & glasseye for MK1b.
Page 10 : Progress with MK1b build – proposed 20:1 gearbox & motor set – more MK1b build – machined endcap for MK2 with comparisons for use of jackplug – RPM & thrash test for new black motor & 20:1 g/box – refitting T-track & types of glue
Page 11 : Screw nomenclature mini-lecture - End of Part 1
=========================
Hi Guys
Wanted to start this thread before I do so much that I'm faced with a backlog.
As far as I have been able find only Kurtyboy has posted anything on making these (his is a graflex type).
Do post links to anything else.
If you have done anything along these lines (blades too) then please join in.
To start I'm doing the graflex stunt like Kurtyboy.
So far I'm upto the MK1b motor core.
MK1a was a single sintered bronze front bearing/bush (often known as Oilite) 1" od & 3/4" id, with small geared motor (400rpm at 6V) in 1.5" aluminium sleeve. Bearing was a light interference fit in the core/sleeve. Motor was slip fit into core/sleeve but I had to shim this by gluing on some paper. It was retained & stopped from rotating in the sleeve by a single screw that fitted into a blind hole I drilled in the gearbox, that did not exert any pressure on the motor/gearbox.
* *
Drive was via 5/16" shaft fitted to 3/4" front socket, attached to motor shaft with 2x grub screws as was front socket.
The holes in the sides of the core were to allow me to get at these screws.
I used 2 opposing screws so I could adjust the pressure these exerted on the motor & drive shaft & keep everything on axis.
Socket was drilled & reamed full length 5/16" so I could retro fit a longer shaft later if nec's & have a stud instead of a socket for blade attachment.
* *
I made up a battery pack (2 x 14500 lipo's) switch, Buck converter (to regulate voltage), & leads with 4mm, white, banana connectors to red banana connector panel sockets (with nuts removed).
Unfortunately I'd decided to use cheap 2 core speaker cable ( as this looked most like what's in the photo's) but this just kept breaking wherever there was a join so I reverted to some braided lighting cable I had originally bought but had decided was too thick (I wanted to press on) so it now looks like this.
Closer showing the buck converter hot glued to the back of the switch for neatness.
* *
This core arrangement didn't work well. It was OK-ish on it's own but as soon a blade was in place & held horizontally everything ground to a halt. I got it going, sort of , a couple of times but things always slowed & stopped. Too much leverage was being transmitted to the motor/gears bearings which couldn't cope (the front bearing acting like a pivot point). Kurtyboy's saber suffers the same problem for the same reason but he is using a large roller bearing. Oiling the bearing with WD 40 helps his but just made matters much worse for me.
Mk1b: Decided to use 2 bearings with as much separation between them as I could get to eliminate this torsion problem.
I removed the bronze bearing, counter bored the core to take a 27mm od roller bearing (with separate inner sleeve 15mm id). I had bought 2 of these originally for this project (as Kurtyboy was using them & they seamed a good choice ) but had decided there was just too much internal clearance on the rollers - single bearing version
Counter bored the motor end to take the 2nd roller bearing (in front of the motor).
Made a new 15mm bright mild steel drive shaft, drilled 4mm one end for motor shaft & drilled & reamed 5/16" other for blade attachment. The inner sleeves that came with the bearings were a nice slip fit to this shaft & hence needed fixing in place . I did this by raising a little metal with a knurling tool, seen here in the position for the 2nd (motor end) inner sleeve. (Front bearing & a collar fitted - collar is to make it look right.)
Did a test fit with the above pictured set up to see how much slop I had & the answer was lots, several mm deflection at the motor end (see below).
* *
Arrangement is now this.
This has totally eliminated the torsion problem & no matter what angle or how I swing it there is no slow down that I can detect. The motor is free floating now, as I had to counter bore that end of the core to get the bearing in. The previous screw to retain the motor still works to stop things from falling out & stop the motor rotating in the core but as it exerts no pressure all the stress is being taken on the much more capable roller bearings.
There is some slop & it sounds a bit rattly, the blade I borrowed from my V2 isn't very centered so I don't know at this stage if this going to be new problem but this where I am now.
I have a short video to upload but I need to get my dinner so I'll do that later. Catch ya later folks.
Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker.
Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc sound comparison & effect of motor position - New 600 rpm motor ordered.
Page 3 : Speculation on Vader stunt - MK2 test with grub screw holding in bearing & also friction fit motor – Mk1b 600rpm test single bearing – Stuffer driveshaft made & tested with balsa dowel – compared to Alec G photo – beech dowel arrives.
Page 4 : Mk1b tested 310 motor , MK2 370 motor with beech dowel – Mk2 mod’d to take both ball-race & roller bearings – Auto rotation of Kenobi (V2) blade in Cantina scene & discovery of how this works inc tests – diff wood dowel found (Obechi?) - Mk2 test set up as per Jon B’s sketch – trying to taper wood dowel.
Page 5 : More info from Jon Bunker re. Blades – Jon’s sketch tested on Mk2 – Blade through bearing without driveshaft tests – some more motors – scaling photo’s of original stunt graffy & some template PDF’s – starting (& failing)) to do main stainless steel tube for MK1b – starting main tube for MK2.
Page 6 : Cont. MK2 main tube – Mk2 reveal – more on making the MK2 – new main tube layout template PDF – even more on making the MK2.
Page 7 : Cont MK2 build, T-track & clamp – putting reflective fabric on a golf club shaft – re-doing the T-track – thoughts on the Kenobi saber (V2) – observations on MK2 construction vs original inc endcap – comparison pic’s with promo photo re. grub screw – black nose on the MK2 & discussion inc endcap again.
Page 8 : Discussion & comparison of MK2 to the stunt graffy in ESB training inc. point of balance & internals – another new battery pack – comparing original stunt end cap with camera flash endcaps.
Page 9 : Cont endcap comparisons – endcap from plastic pushin type, penny-washer & jack socket – Straightening beech dowel & new stub driveshaft – new driveshaft test with metal sleeved dowel, loosing T-track – simplifying internal wiring on MK2 – endcap fitted with vintage jack socket nut – making stainless thin knurl red buttons & glasseye for MK1b.
Page 10 : Progress with MK1b build – proposed 20:1 gearbox & motor set – more MK1b build – machined endcap for MK2 with comparisons for use of jackplug – RPM & thrash test for new black motor & 20:1 g/box – refitting T-track & types of glue
Page 11 : Screw nomenclature mini-lecture - End of Part 1
=========================
Hi Guys
Wanted to start this thread before I do so much that I'm faced with a backlog.
As far as I have been able find only Kurtyboy has posted anything on making these (his is a graflex type).
Do post links to anything else.
If you have done anything along these lines (blades too) then please join in.
To start I'm doing the graflex stunt like Kurtyboy.
So far I'm upto the MK1b motor core.
MK1a was a single sintered bronze front bearing/bush (often known as Oilite) 1" od & 3/4" id, with small geared motor (400rpm at 6V) in 1.5" aluminium sleeve. Bearing was a light interference fit in the core/sleeve. Motor was slip fit into core/sleeve but I had to shim this by gluing on some paper. It was retained & stopped from rotating in the sleeve by a single screw that fitted into a blind hole I drilled in the gearbox, that did not exert any pressure on the motor/gearbox.
* *
Drive was via 5/16" shaft fitted to 3/4" front socket, attached to motor shaft with 2x grub screws as was front socket.
The holes in the sides of the core were to allow me to get at these screws.
I used 2 opposing screws so I could adjust the pressure these exerted on the motor & drive shaft & keep everything on axis.
Socket was drilled & reamed full length 5/16" so I could retro fit a longer shaft later if nec's & have a stud instead of a socket for blade attachment.
* *
I made up a battery pack (2 x 14500 lipo's) switch, Buck converter (to regulate voltage), & leads with 4mm, white, banana connectors to red banana connector panel sockets (with nuts removed).
Unfortunately I'd decided to use cheap 2 core speaker cable ( as this looked most like what's in the photo's) but this just kept breaking wherever there was a join so I reverted to some braided lighting cable I had originally bought but had decided was too thick (I wanted to press on) so it now looks like this.
Closer showing the buck converter hot glued to the back of the switch for neatness.
* *
This core arrangement didn't work well. It was OK-ish on it's own but as soon a blade was in place & held horizontally everything ground to a halt. I got it going, sort of , a couple of times but things always slowed & stopped. Too much leverage was being transmitted to the motor/gears bearings which couldn't cope (the front bearing acting like a pivot point). Kurtyboy's saber suffers the same problem for the same reason but he is using a large roller bearing. Oiling the bearing with WD 40 helps his but just made matters much worse for me.
Mk1b: Decided to use 2 bearings with as much separation between them as I could get to eliminate this torsion problem.
I removed the bronze bearing, counter bored the core to take a 27mm od roller bearing (with separate inner sleeve 15mm id). I had bought 2 of these originally for this project (as Kurtyboy was using them & they seamed a good choice ) but had decided there was just too much internal clearance on the rollers - single bearing version
Counter bored the motor end to take the 2nd roller bearing (in front of the motor).
Made a new 15mm bright mild steel drive shaft, drilled 4mm one end for motor shaft & drilled & reamed 5/16" other for blade attachment. The inner sleeves that came with the bearings were a nice slip fit to this shaft & hence needed fixing in place . I did this by raising a little metal with a knurling tool, seen here in the position for the 2nd (motor end) inner sleeve. (Front bearing & a collar fitted - collar is to make it look right.)
Did a test fit with the above pictured set up to see how much slop I had & the answer was lots, several mm deflection at the motor end (see below).
* *
Arrangement is now this.
This has totally eliminated the torsion problem & no matter what angle or how I swing it there is no slow down that I can detect. The motor is free floating now, as I had to counter bore that end of the core to get the bearing in. The previous screw to retain the motor still works to stop things from falling out & stop the motor rotating in the core but as it exerts no pressure all the stress is being taken on the much more capable roller bearings.
There is some slop & it sounds a bit rattly, the blade I borrowed from my V2 isn't very centered so I don't know at this stage if this going to be new problem but this where I am now.
I have a short video to upload but I need to get my dinner so I'll do that later. Catch ya later folks.
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