LOM
Well-Known Member
Last Updated: July 10th, 2022
In an effort to make this more of a better reference for people, I've decided to put my personal anecdotes and musings into spoiler tags to separate them from the meat of the content.
This post serves as a timeline and general quick-reference guide to information that I had mostly collected in 2020-2021. With that said, I haven't done much research in the past 8 months, but I haven't heard of any major breakthroughs in information. Maybe there is something buried on the facebook forums, but I really dislike searching through there to be honest, lol.
I wanted to share this because I find that it helped me understand what might or might not have gone on during production, and puts to rest a lot of myths while also creating a lot of new questions. In the end, I just wanted to put this out there. Personally in the past few years - I ran through every single possible research avenue I could muster. Eventually, I was hit with the fact that there simply are no available answers public, or private. Someone out there certainly knows more, maybe there are some locked away documents or images in the archive, but as of what I was able to uncover - this is the bulk of it. Personally I find the best way to understand the sabers of ANH is as a whole, it was a process during the film. Researching and looking at it as process that evolved throughout filming I think is one of the best ways to look at these props.
In this post, there are a lot of references to production memos and documents, if you would like to check them out for yourself, see here in this google drive. There are also a ton of reference photos I've collected during that time. There are also a lot of people I quote, most of these are from posts available buried in threads on theRPF, and I haven't gotten the time to add source links, but I will at some point.
Note: This post primarily focuses on the stunt sabers of ANH. I touch on hero props, but the hero's tend to have their own wonderful threads. What happens to these props beyond ANH is another story as well, and might be worth exploring in the future.
This post is much inspired by SethS's amazing lightsaber guide, which can be found below, and would probably be good to read before diving into this stuff.
wannawanga.com
Original Introduction:
Anyhow...
Early Ralph McQuarrie Concepts
Per: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1975
February 14-15, 1975
Original McQuarrie Concepts:
January 14th – First Special Effects Tests Completed
“The Wizards at Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," R2-D2 and illuminated control boards.”
Source: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1976
January 16th – Notes of Meeting Held In Conference Room On January 1976.
January 16th – Notes Pertaining to HOD’s [Head of Directors] Meeting held at EMI Studios at 5 p.m. on Friday, January 16th, 1976.
January 19th – Meeting between George Lucas, Roger Christian, and John Stears
Photos are dated as circa January 14, 1976 – January 25, 1976.
Source: Star Wars “Original Prototype Lightsabers from 1976 Meeting”
We see:
Roger Christian additional quotes on initial SPFX prototypes:
January 20th – George Lucas and Gil Taylor Discuss Filming
January 23rd – Special Effects Tests of Laser Swords. (Rescheduled from 21st)
Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," and Jawa eyes.
We see that many of these hilts are based on the McQuarrie Jousting design, but what I found interesting is that Mr. Bunker's quote regarding intentionally breaking blades possibly seems to be this hilt above? As I've not seen any other hilt or blade that seems like it was supposed to break.
Types of Laser Swords tested on this day:
Below is the first motorized test saber:
[Unknown Date], Early Production – Alec Guinness, David Prowse, George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, and Peter Diamond meet on an Elstree stage(?) to rehearse with early lightsabers.
[Images likely taken on Gary Kurtz personal camera]
Here we can see the early “lance” hilt that was apparently designed to break being used in practice as George Lucas and stunt-coordinator Peter Diamond watch. They appear to have flipped the dish above the handle, likely to test how that would look in camera per the discussion on January 16th. Also, this design would give an effect very reminiscent of McQuarrie’s original paintings with the bulge of light above the emitter of the hilt.
Shipping Notes
As of Feb 5th
As of Feb 10th
It is therefore very likely that the Hero Luke and Obi-Wan hilt designs were settled on between January 19th and February 5th.
My Theory:
FILMING
Filming the Cantina – April 13, 15, 20. 21
Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness film their scene together in the Cantina Set.
Thanks again to dcarty opening his copy of "The Cinema of George Lucas" and looking up the additional filming reports I did not have!
Call sheet for April 20th notes:
Note: No front projection effect was used according to the call sheet. (Might not be the correct day.)
3 Known Takes:
The V2 appears to be used in the cantina sequence. The blade appears to be extra-long compared to subsequent uses of the V2(?)
Filming Ben’s “Cave” – April 23, 26
The scene inside of Obi-Wan's home was filmed at this time. After filming inside of Obi-Wan's home was completed, George Lucas and John Barry did a quick walk through of the set the crew would be filming on the following Monday - the Death Star corridor.
Day 1
Image: Kurtz-Joiner archive I believe via Star Wars Aficionado.
You can also catch a glimpse of the front projection set up being used for filming in front of the camera!
I believe this day of filming included Kenobi giving Skywalker the saber, but Guinness demands rewrites of his dialogue so they probably rewrite it then and there, and film a few more scenes before the end of the day because of the 4m screen time taken.
(I believe the woman in the first pic is Ann Skinner, she has a continuity script binder(?) clearly in another photo I've seen but apparently didn't save.
I believe the SPFX lightsaber malfunctioned on Day 1 substantially.. So....
Day 2
Likely consisted of just waving the SPFX hilt around and getting that right ignition right. I don't have a lot of evidence for this, but some pictures seem to indicate that they mainly focused on filming the hilt for awhile on this day. Since Anthony Daniels isn't on set on this day, you can kind of spot when images might be from day 2.
Image courtesy of: Scottjua
April 26th – Note: AFTER filming the Cave
Alec Guinness is interviewed by the Sunday Times about his character in the film.
Filming the Falcon – May 10
* Footage of the 2nd image somewhere online, I didn't save the link it's a blooper and the helmet falls off.
Call Sheet for Monday, May 10th, 1976 Notes:
Note: This is possibly the day when some Chronicle photos were taken. Note the call for “all principles” continuity weapons.
Motorized Graflex stunt appears to use a similar blade to that used in the Hut. (To me anyways)
On Filming the Duel – May 27, 28; June 1
Note: Reshoots potentially did take place for the “cut down” scene at later times besides these 3 primary filming days. *Reshoots possibly on June 3rd(?)*
Day 1:
Entering more theory/speculation again...
The primary hilts used in filming on this day are the V2 and the Barbican. However, this day would show some unusual features of the Barbican as well what seems to be another unmotorized stand-in stunt for Obi Wan.
Primary Hilt (V2): Secondary Stand-in Hilt(?):
Barbican:
The age old question, "Was the Barbican wired on set?" Yep!
I've seen a high resolution unpainted version of the image on the left, in front of the control panel you can see a wire hanging down with a red connector (jack plug perhaps? hmm...) Also, please note that on the image on the left, the shroud of the Barbican being white is not from the airbrush. Although I so wish this was evidence for a 2nd hilt, looking at the 2nd image, it probably just caught the studio light.
Day 2:
I *think* the images above are from day 2 but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain most of the Day 2 consists of takes of Vader striking Obi-Wan down and the use of the collapsible skeleton constructed by Stears’ team. In addition, the scenes of Vader cornering Kenobi in the main hangar bay is filmed as well.
The Barbican is still used for filming on this day.
I believe they filmed the "cloak collapsing" scene something like 6 times. We have evidence of a couple at the very least:
Skeleton does not fully collapse in the Making of Star Wars film. (Interestingly in the documentary, you see one of the guys on set handling a special effects blade as well. Footage:
Possibly one take
Note the different cloak location and saber blade along the wall.
And the film take is different than all of these I think.
2 different takes based on hood position... 2 different hilts? First pic looks a bit narrower, and is wired. The 2nd image has that solid black emitter with specks on the edge that we can see in a film still I think.
2nd image can clearly be seen in the film:
Day 3, the Hallway Sequence:
Here's an interesting hilt on this day of filming. Minimal edge visible wear on emitter plate. Potentially a “tall collar” on the blade. Visible throughout most of the hallway sequence. And makes it in film:
What appears to be a second hilt on this day, identifiable due to wear pattern on emitter faceplate. (V2?)
Jon Bunker noted that he did not recall what went wrong with the Barbican, but that it might've had something to do with hiding the wires. I believe Mr. Alinger or the Rinzler book backs that up, and I think those images show that might've been the problem.
After what was likely some initial test shots and photos for lighting, the decision to cut the wires on the Barbican was made. Only those two photos I've found show a wired Barbican. So, it must have been a fairly early decision on set to remove the motorized effect, and I can totally see it being done because they couldn't hide the wires now.
Oddly, Luke’s motorized Graflex serves on day 3, acting as Vader’s stunt hilt...
However, the Barbican also makes an appearance on this day! It is visible in the film as well as on some of the BTS footage as seen below. It is identifiable due to the way Prowse holds it. So why what caused the need for the Graflex stunt to take its place in one scene or take? The Barbican was on set, was it suddenly unable to take a blade? I don’t know.
(teecrooz has a gif of this footage below)
On Lightsaber Construction
Who Built them?
I wanted to preface this section with credit to those who were involved in the construction of the sabers on ANH.
Roger Christian is almost certainly responsible for the discovery of the Graflex and was involved in the creation of the hero hilts as mentioned in the timeline, but his interviews have expanded far beyond that occasionally and neglect to mention other key players involved in this process.
Here are the known people involved in the construction of the SPFX sabers:
Regarding the Motorized Obi-Wan Sabers:
The Wooden Buck.
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
The wooden buck appears to be turned from some scrap wood based on measurements straight off the Obi-Wan Hero hilt. BRRogers has discovered a possible answer as to why the buck is so close to the hero prop in size - it might have been made on a duplicator lathe, which accounts for some of the marks left on the buck. As seen in Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread.
The wooden buck today is more or less the same size as the Obi-Wan hero prop.
It is unknown who produced it or why the Obi-Wan stunts were produced this way. There were 4 carpenters on the film, but it's likely it was produced by Stears' SPFX shop.
The buck and a raw cast appeared on eBay in the early 2000s, supposedly sold by someone who worked on A New Hope and was in the department that turned it. It did not sell at the time, and later made its way into the hands of the people of Propstore by 2011 and was part of a touring exhibition that appeared at SDCC in 2011 and 2012(?). The pair of sabers were auctioned in 2019 by Propstore and now reside in a private collection.
The emitter of the buck is almost certainly a separate piece held on by a rod or dowel down the center. The pommel end in theory may be a separate piece which would account for how we get to the metal cast "stumps," but from those that have been near it, it's somewhat indiscernible as-is.
On Casting the Metal Sabers.
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
This post is a must-read: Halliwax's weird V3 theory -> contains information on the composition of the stunt sabers.
Internal Construction of the Motorized Stunts:
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
Bunker's recollection of the internal workings of the Obi-Wan sabers, as shared by Vadermania.
Does the Emitter Spin?
NOT visible in ANH footage.
Obi-Wan Pommels
Regarding the V2
There is so much information on the V2 out there, that it would be remiss not to give links for additional reading.
MUST READ. Seriously, start at page 1 and read.
www.therpf.com
Additional recommended readings:
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
There are a million awesome threads on the V2. There is such a wealth of information out there.
The V2 is the only Obi-Wan stunt saber we can definitively say is seen on-screen for most of the duel, and the cantina sequence.
V2 History, Post filming for reference:
Regarding the V3 (and Stunt Obi-Wan Sabers in general)
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
It is impossible to confirm if the V3 is present in ANH on screen. There is no documentation of the inventory of stunts made for ANH, there appears to have been no documentation during filming, and with the refurbishing that the V3 has received post ANH for both ESB/RotJ dueling, and touring, it would be near impossible to identify it with complete certainty.
The reason the Official Like RotJ V2 Weigh-In is important:
abcnews.go.com
www.popularmechanics.com
I filed a FOIA with NASA for more information, unfortunately there was nothing else besides this lovely inventory line:
History of the V3, post filming years for reference:
Regarding Other Obi-Wan Sabers
The actual amount of Obi-Wan stunt sabers is anyone's guess. In Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread there are discussions on the Death Saber, the Hoth Hammer Saber, and the Warehouse Stunt.
Regarding the Barbican:
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
(As the hilt is today)
The “Barbican” was initially planned to be Vader’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real MPP clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track (Plus a small 1.5” piece used to replicate the MPP bulb release button.), an open-hole end cap, and square aluminum shroud reminiscent of an MPP.
Although the prop has been refinished today after years of filming in RotJ and ESB, we can still gather some details about it. Based on the size of the switch hole, it is likely the Barbican utilized a toggle switch similar to the V2, as a lamp push button as seen on the motorized Graflex requires a larger hole to be drilled, as seen above.
Note that due to the switch location, the motor in the real Barbican would be seated remarkably high up. I believe this is likely why some issues were encountered. The heavier HMP/Antenna based blades probably dragged on the motor, the clashes likely loosened the core as well, assuming it was held with a set screw under the shroud. Note that the shroud was likely not secured as to why Prowse holds it in such weird ways to stop it from falling off. It’s likely this was intentionally designed to allow you to access the screws that would allow you to change blades and accounts for the images where the shroud is attached on reverse.
The reason it was ultimately ditched in favor of the Graflex stunt on the final day of dueling is somewhat a mystery because the Barbican was present on day 3 of filming. Perhaps by then the other Barbicans had completely failed, forcing production to utilize Luke’s stunt saber.
Also, in this image here, you can also make out what appears to be a jack-plug connector, as described by Bunker on his notes and diagrams. I personally have many questions regarding this image.
Barbican History, post filming:
Regarding the Motorized Graflex:
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
The motorized Graflex was Luke Skywalker’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real graflex clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track, a “thin-knurl” Folmer Graflex button, a “beer tab,” a Graflex Glass eye, and an end cap seemingly scavenged from camera parts.
Later, this saber would go on to serve as Vader’s stunt saber on the final day of the duel with either a painted or taped off shroud – wires cut as well. It was then subsequently utilized for promotional photos in its post-dueling state.
It is again possible multiple of these were made. Note in ESB, there appears to be a stunt featuring a similar long lever as seen on the V2. Unfortunately, after filming ESB it appears this saber was walked off set and hasn’t surfaced since.
The wires utilized “power pole” connectors in white and red specifically. There appear to have been some difficulties getting the saber setup while filming the hut sequence.
Post filming the OT, there are no surviving examples of motorized Graflexes.
On Motorization:
How many motorized sabers were built?
With regards to motors....
Note: No “Marklin” motor match found yet. A “Marklin Metaal” motor was a close match to these specs, however it was in a rectangular case and made in the early 80s, not mid-70s.
On Blades
Recommended Reading:
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
www.therpf.com
(This section includes many quotes taken from Mouse Vader's reference thread above, including quotes shared by Vadermania, scarf man)
The first blades...
The First Filming Blades:
The Duel Filming Blades:
Initially, this thread and the information here was collected to dispel a lot of rumors and further our research as a community. I personally wanted to get to the bottom of a lot of the why's. Maybe I got to the bottom of some, but I've ran into so many dead ends that I literally exhausted basically every lead I had.
Anyhow, there is need for a special thanks to a number of people I bothered in PMs regarding this like Halliwax, Vadermania, BRRogers, thd9791, and a few other people who graciously took time to share information and help me look over all this.
This post is still a WIP, I am not happy with some of the formatting in a few areas, but it's the best I can do right now. I'd also like to add an ESB/RotJ section to the addendum, but anyhow. I'll clean it up sometime. I wish I had more to add, but 'till next time, I hope this gets your mind turning on some things.
In an effort to make this more of a better reference for people, I've decided to put my personal anecdotes and musings into spoiler tags to separate them from the meat of the content.
This post serves as a timeline and general quick-reference guide to information that I had mostly collected in 2020-2021. With that said, I haven't done much research in the past 8 months, but I haven't heard of any major breakthroughs in information. Maybe there is something buried on the facebook forums, but I really dislike searching through there to be honest, lol.
I wanted to share this because I find that it helped me understand what might or might not have gone on during production, and puts to rest a lot of myths while also creating a lot of new questions. In the end, I just wanted to put this out there. Personally in the past few years - I ran through every single possible research avenue I could muster. Eventually, I was hit with the fact that there simply are no available answers public, or private. Someone out there certainly knows more, maybe there are some locked away documents or images in the archive, but as of what I was able to uncover - this is the bulk of it. Personally I find the best way to understand the sabers of ANH is as a whole, it was a process during the film. Researching and looking at it as process that evolved throughout filming I think is one of the best ways to look at these props.
In this post, there are a lot of references to production memos and documents, if you would like to check them out for yourself, see here in this google drive. There are also a ton of reference photos I've collected during that time. There are also a lot of people I quote, most of these are from posts available buried in threads on theRPF, and I haven't gotten the time to add source links, but I will at some point.
Note: This post primarily focuses on the stunt sabers of ANH. I touch on hero props, but the hero's tend to have their own wonderful threads. What happens to these props beyond ANH is another story as well, and might be worth exploring in the future.
This post is much inspired by SethS's amazing lightsaber guide, which can be found below, and would probably be good to read before diving into this stuff.
Lightsaber Guidebook – WannaWanga
wannawanga.com
Original Introduction:
Hi everyone!
Spurred by some of the recent discussions on the “”prototype”” MPP and Graflex that were recently auctioned, I wanted to share some information I collected and put into a timeline. I've found it helps me understand what might or might not have gone on during production.
I've been gathering info on and off on this for the past six months or so now... This is more of an informative post that is going to bounce around a LOT because I organized this a bit oddly in my doc. I kind of just want to put this out here as some handy information because bits and pieces in here are relevant to quite a few other saber discussions I think. Also, I've tried to credit and link much of the relevant bits as well.
Also, I mention a lot of production memos and stuff without inserting the original documents. If you want to check them for yourself, you can view most of what I mentioned here in this google drive. In addition you will find a lot of BTS photos I've collected, and there is also a doc in there that is just a wall of Roger Christian interviews because I was curious to see how his story evolved, I've pulled most of my quotes from him from there.
I should also say - I can't 100% confirm if I've got this right at all of course in the theory department, so if you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to poke holes in it. I've generally tried to leave most of this more factual so that others can draw their own conclusions or theories.
Also, I am continually updating this first post with quick small changes and more info as a heads up.
Spurred by some of the recent discussions on the “”prototype”” MPP and Graflex that were recently auctioned, I wanted to share some information I collected and put into a timeline. I've found it helps me understand what might or might not have gone on during production.
I've been gathering info on and off on this for the past six months or so now... This is more of an informative post that is going to bounce around a LOT because I organized this a bit oddly in my doc. I kind of just want to put this out here as some handy information because bits and pieces in here are relevant to quite a few other saber discussions I think. Also, I've tried to credit and link much of the relevant bits as well.
Also, I mention a lot of production memos and stuff without inserting the original documents. If you want to check them for yourself, you can view most of what I mentioned here in this google drive. In addition you will find a lot of BTS photos I've collected, and there is also a doc in there that is just a wall of Roger Christian interviews because I was curious to see how his story evolved, I've pulled most of my quotes from him from there.
I should also say - I can't 100% confirm if I've got this right at all of course in the theory department, so if you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to poke holes in it. I've generally tried to leave most of this more factual so that others can draw their own conclusions or theories.
Also, I am continually updating this first post with quick small changes and more info as a heads up.
Early Ralph McQuarrie Concepts
February 14-15, 1975
Original McQuarrie Concepts:
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhere
Interestingly, two of these concepts on the sketch to the left appear to match the hilts wielded in "Laser Duel" above, and seem to match two of the concepts presented on the January 19th meeting.
Early Production, “Elstree Testing” Early 1976January 14th – First Special Effects Tests Completed
“The Wizards at Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," R2-D2 and illuminated control boards.”
Source: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1976
January 16th – Notes of Meeting Held In Conference Room On January 1976.
* Monday query refers to the January 19th meeting.
January 16th – Notes Pertaining to HOD’s [Head of Directors] Meeting held at EMI Studios at 5 p.m. on Friday, January 16th, 1976.
The document additionally notes:
January 19th – Meeting between George Lucas, Roger Christian, and John Stears
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhere
I find it more than likely these are the hilt parts that were discussed on this day:Photos are dated as circa January 14, 1976 – January 25, 1976.
Source: Star Wars “Original Prototype Lightsabers from 1976 Meeting”
We see:
- 1 Safety Torch
- 1 Diving Torch
- 1 Unknown black handle (?)
- 1 Unknown skinny handle (?)
- 1 Hales No. 3 Mk 1 Grenade
- 4 Balance Pipes in an assembly
Because of Christians' account that the Stears' prototypes were all the torch/flashlight style handles, he probably brought the grenade and balance pipe assembly to the meeting.
Roger Christian additional quotes on initial SPFX prototypes:
January 20th – George Lucas and Gil Taylor Discuss Filming
Interesting tidbit, as in the film there are actually 4 shots with a saber. It seems that the Falcon training scene was a late addition?
January 23rd – Special Effects Tests of Laser Swords. (Rescheduled from 21st)
Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," and Jawa eyes.
We see that many of these hilts are based on the McQuarrie Jousting design, but what I found interesting is that Mr. Bunker's quote regarding intentionally breaking blades possibly seems to be this hilt above? As I've not seen any other hilt or blade that seems like it was supposed to break.
Types of Laser Swords tested on this day:
- X2 “Lances” - dish downwards, designed to break.
- X1 ''Sword,” likely to fit the description of “Excalibur”
- X1 “Motorized” test hilt - 3-sided blade(?)
- X2 “Epee” Fencing Swords
- X1 Small Sword
- X1 Small sword with guard
Below is the first motorized test saber:
[Unknown Date], Early Production – Alec Guinness, David Prowse, George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, and Peter Diamond meet on an Elstree stage(?) to rehearse with early lightsabers.
[Images likely taken on Gary Kurtz personal camera]
Here we can see the early “lance” hilt that was apparently designed to break being used in practice as George Lucas and stunt-coordinator Peter Diamond watch. They appear to have flipped the dish above the handle, likely to test how that would look in camera per the discussion on January 16th. Also, this design would give an effect very reminiscent of McQuarrie’s original paintings with the bulge of light above the emitter of the hilt.
Shipping Notes
As of Feb 5th
This document indicates that hero hilts have likely been selected as of February 5th. Personnel Charter planned to depart March 20-22.
As of Feb 10th
Alternate dates the hilts may have been shipped out on indicated above, because of the emphasis on props.
It is therefore very likely that the Hero Luke and Obi-Wan hilt designs were settled on between January 19th and February 5th.
My Theory:
Production was clearly running late. Props and special effects items were approved in very short times before filming. That much is apparent from the production memos.
The only noted special effects test for sabers took place on January 23rd (after being rescheduled from the 21st), and those aren't anything close to the final product save for the motorized one. So when did they make the stunt sabers? Obviously the hero hilts have to be approved before you can make correct stunt sabers, so there is now about a two week window for heroes to be selected, so stunt saber development probably began shortly after, probably before the personnel charter was set to leave to Tunisia with the hero hilts. But, with the tight schedule it seems there was almost no time for Stears' to work on continual development of these stunt sabers with key pieces falling behind schedule.
That brings us to this quote...
If I had to guess, the stunt sabers were not finished before filming began. Bunker quotes a "Bert Hamilton" as the guy in charge of developing the stunt sabers. Why isn't it Stears? Could it be because Stears was in Tunisia operating R2 during their construction, and the remaining SPFX team at Elstree scrounged up the materials, possibly out of whatever they could because of a nonexistent budget as all the key players are in Tunisia filming? Just with the goal in mind to have the sabers ready for when they returned as the cantina and hut sequences were filmed fairly early on if I recall. It would also explain the lack of documentation of the development too.
Though, it's probable that Stears' was responsible for coming up with the spinning effect/the final electronic set up because he is the one handling the motorized saber in the test footage.
I personally think the SPFX Obi hilts began to be worked on pretty early, but I'm not exactly sure what variation its based on. I feel that the angles of the cubes on the Tunisia version are closer to the buck, but the groove below the cubes on the Chronicles is a match for one of the details on the buck. (I admit I am not an expert in real parts Obis at all, so I might've botched my description)
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
The windvane positioning also does not match the chronicles build at all, the part above the neck and below the windvane is quite long and the Tunisia version looks closer to it from the blurry pic we have:
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
Alternatively there could have been two heroes and 1 was kept for reference for the SPFX department?
I recall reading that Stears’ supplied some of his own technicians to assist the engineers in the development of R2, which means to me, it seems like they may have had influence on metal casting Obi’s after seeing the cast metal flippers. Perhaps now that sabers are their primary focus now that everyone is in Tunisia, they got an idea to use the same method to make hilts.
However, the OpenR2 project noted that professionals cast the R2 arms after supplying a company with a 'drawing' not a buck. I have many doubts about the stunt hilts being professionally cast based on the seamlines and wonkyness.
One other thing to note: production documents mention:
The only noted special effects test for sabers took place on January 23rd (after being rescheduled from the 21st), and those aren't anything close to the final product save for the motorized one. So when did they make the stunt sabers? Obviously the hero hilts have to be approved before you can make correct stunt sabers, so there is now about a two week window for heroes to be selected, so stunt saber development probably began shortly after, probably before the personnel charter was set to leave to Tunisia with the hero hilts. But, with the tight schedule it seems there was almost no time for Stears' to work on continual development of these stunt sabers with key pieces falling behind schedule.
That brings us to this quote...
If I had to guess, the stunt sabers were not finished before filming began. Bunker quotes a "Bert Hamilton" as the guy in charge of developing the stunt sabers. Why isn't it Stears? Could it be because Stears was in Tunisia operating R2 during their construction, and the remaining SPFX team at Elstree scrounged up the materials, possibly out of whatever they could because of a nonexistent budget as all the key players are in Tunisia filming? Just with the goal in mind to have the sabers ready for when they returned as the cantina and hut sequences were filmed fairly early on if I recall. It would also explain the lack of documentation of the development too.
Though, it's probable that Stears' was responsible for coming up with the spinning effect/the final electronic set up because he is the one handling the motorized saber in the test footage.
I personally think the SPFX Obi hilts began to be worked on pretty early, but I'm not exactly sure what variation its based on. I feel that the angles of the cubes on the Tunisia version are closer to the buck, but the groove below the cubes on the Chronicles is a match for one of the details on the buck. (I admit I am not an expert in real parts Obis at all, so I might've botched my description)
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
The windvane positioning also does not match the chronicles build at all, the part above the neck and below the windvane is quite long and the Tunisia version looks closer to it from the blurry pic we have:
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
Alternatively there could have been two heroes and 1 was kept for reference for the SPFX department?
I recall reading that Stears’ supplied some of his own technicians to assist the engineers in the development of R2, which means to me, it seems like they may have had influence on metal casting Obi’s after seeing the cast metal flippers. Perhaps now that sabers are their primary focus now that everyone is in Tunisia, they got an idea to use the same method to make hilts.
However, the OpenR2 project noted that professionals cast the R2 arms after supplying a company with a 'drawing' not a buck. I have many doubts about the stunt hilts being professionally cast based on the seamlines and wonkyness.
One other thing to note: production documents mention:
In reference to casting the then named Dia Nogu... Casting metal seems a bit more involved than basic casting. Food for thought.
==================================================
FILMING
Filming the Cantina – April 13, 15, 20. 21
Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness film their scene together in the Cantina Set.
Thanks again to dcarty opening his copy of "The Cinema of George Lucas" and looking up the additional filming reports I did not have!
| Report No19: Thursday April 15 Sets: Stage Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: 50 PART [Obi-Wan uses his lightsaber in the Cantina] Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 48s | Report No.20: Wednesday, April 14 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: AA53 RETAKE, 50 PART Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 10s | Report No. 21: Thursday, April 15 Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: 50 PART Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 30s. Daily Status: 1 Day Behind | Report No.22: Tuesday, April 20 Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: ZB50 (EXTRA SCENE) [Luke and Obi-Wan meet Han Solo]; 50 PART (EXTRA SCENE) [Han and Greedo] Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 00s. | Report No.21: Wednesday, April 21 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94 (retake); Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: AA53, etc. Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 22s. Daily Status: 1 Day Behind |
Call sheet for April 20th notes:
Note: No front projection effect was used according to the call sheet. (Might not be the correct day.)
3 Known Takes:
- Film Take
- Star Wars Black and White “Rough Cut”
- Color Footage on YT (211, take 3, “Guide Track”)
The V2 appears to be used in the cantina sequence. The blade appears to be extra-long compared to subsequent uses of the V2(?)
Filming Ben’s “Cave” – April 23, 26
The scene inside of Obi-Wan's home was filmed at this time. After filming inside of Obi-Wan's home was completed, George Lucas and John Barry did a quick walk through of the set the crew would be filming on the following Monday - the Death Star corridor.
| Report No. 25: Friday, April 23 Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave Scene Numbers: 42 PART [Obi-Wan views Leia’s message] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 4m 00s. | Report No. 26: Monday, April 26 Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave; Stage 2-INT. Death Star Scenes Numbers: 42 COMP,; 111 [Vader espies Kenobi] Screen Time Taken To-Day 57s. | ((Is there a day 3 Report Missing? I've seen reference to a 3rd day of filming but I did not see a report for this.)) |
Day 1
Image: Kurtz-Joiner archive I believe via Star Wars Aficionado.
You can also catch a glimpse of the front projection set up being used for filming in front of the camera!
I believe this day of filming included Kenobi giving Skywalker the saber, but Guinness demands rewrites of his dialogue so they probably rewrite it then and there, and film a few more scenes before the end of the day because of the 4m screen time taken.
(I believe the woman in the first pic is Ann Skinner, she has a continuity script binder(?) clearly in another photo I've seen but apparently didn't save.
I believe the SPFX lightsaber malfunctioned on Day 1 substantially.. So....
Day 2
Likely consisted of just waving the SPFX hilt around and getting that right ignition right. I don't have a lot of evidence for this, but some pictures seem to indicate that they mainly focused on filming the hilt for awhile on this day. Since Anthony Daniels isn't on set on this day, you can kind of spot when images might be from day 2.
Image courtesy of: Scottjua
April 26th – Note: AFTER filming the Cave
Alec Guinness is interviewed by the Sunday Times about his character in the film.
*reference to the bubble strip on the hero saber most likely. Thought this was a cool mention.
Filming the Falcon – May 10
* Footage of the 2nd image somewhere online, I didn't save the link it's a blooper and the helmet falls off.
| Report No. 35: Friday, May 7 Sets: Stage 9-INT. Pirate Starship Hallway Scene Numbers: 67 PART [Luke training with seeker; hologram board game] Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 50s. |
Call Sheet for Monday, May 10th, 1976 Notes:
Note: This sequence was also filmed using a front projection effect per call sheet.
Note: This is possibly the day when some Chronicle photos were taken. Note the call for “all principles” continuity weapons.
Motorized Graflex stunt appears to use a similar blade to that used in the Hut. (To me anyways)
On Filming the Duel – May 27, 28; June 1
| Report No. 49: Thursday May 27 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay Scene Numbers: 117 PART [Obi-Wan is cut down] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 29s | Report No. 50: Friday, May 28 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay Scene Numbers: 117 Part Screen Time Taken To-Day: 16s | Report No. 51: Tuesday, June 1 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star- Main Docking Bay Scene Numbers: 116 PART [Vader to Obi-Wan: "We meet again at last"] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 39s |
Day 1:
Entering more theory/speculation again...
The primary hilts used in filming on this day are the V2 and the Barbican. However, this day would show some unusual features of the Barbican as well what seems to be another unmotorized stand-in stunt for Obi Wan.
Primary Hilt (V2): Secondary Stand-in Hilt(?):
Barbican:
The age old question, "Was the Barbican wired on set?" Yep!
I've seen a high resolution unpainted version of the image on the left, in front of the control panel you can see a wire hanging down with a red connector (jack plug perhaps? hmm...) Also, please note that on the image on the left, the shroud of the Barbican being white is not from the airbrush. Although I so wish this was evidence for a 2nd hilt, looking at the 2nd image, it probably just caught the studio light.
Day 2:
I *think* the images above are from day 2 but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain most of the Day 2 consists of takes of Vader striking Obi-Wan down and the use of the collapsible skeleton constructed by Stears’ team. In addition, the scenes of Vader cornering Kenobi in the main hangar bay is filmed as well.
The Barbican is still used for filming on this day.
I believe they filmed the "cloak collapsing" scene something like 6 times. We have evidence of a couple at the very least:
Skeleton does not fully collapse in the Making of Star Wars film. (Interestingly in the documentary, you see one of the guys on set handling a special effects blade as well. Footage:
And the film take is different than all of these I think.
2 different takes based on hood position... 2 different hilts? First pic looks a bit narrower, and is wired. The 2nd image has that solid black emitter with specks on the edge that we can see in a film still I think.
2nd image can clearly be seen in the film:
Day 3, the Hallway Sequence:
Here's an interesting hilt on this day of filming. Minimal edge visible wear on emitter plate. Potentially a “tall collar” on the blade. Visible throughout most of the hallway sequence. And makes it in film:
What appears to be a second hilt on this day, identifiable due to wear pattern on emitter faceplate. (V2?)
What went wrong with the Barbican?Jon Bunker noted that he did not recall what went wrong with the Barbican, but that it might've had something to do with hiding the wires. I believe Mr. Alinger or the Rinzler book backs that up, and I think those images show that might've been the problem.
After what was likely some initial test shots and photos for lighting, the decision to cut the wires on the Barbican was made. Only those two photos I've found show a wired Barbican. So, it must have been a fairly early decision on set to remove the motorized effect, and I can totally see it being done because they couldn't hide the wires now.
Oddly, Luke’s motorized Graflex serves on day 3, acting as Vader’s stunt hilt...
However, the Barbican also makes an appearance on this day! It is visible in the film as well as on some of the BTS footage as seen below. It is identifiable due to the way Prowse holds it. So why what caused the need for the Graflex stunt to take its place in one scene or take? The Barbican was on set, was it suddenly unable to take a blade? I don’t know.
(teecrooz has a gif of this footage below)
On Lightsaber Construction
Who Built them?
I wanted to preface this section with credit to those who were involved in the construction of the sabers on ANH.
Roger Christian is almost certainly responsible for the discovery of the Graflex and was involved in the creation of the hero hilts as mentioned in the timeline, but his interviews have expanded far beyond that occasionally and neglect to mention other key players involved in this process.
Here are the known people involved in the construction of the SPFX sabers:
- John Stears: He and his shop were hired for the mechanical effects in ANH. Notably produced R2 (I would highly recommend checking out the OpenR2 project for a deep dive into this), the initial 3PO sculpt, the land speeder, and of course, was heavily involved in the creation of the lightsaber as mentioned earlier.
- Bert Hamilton[-Smith]: A member of Stears' SPFX team, credited with being the main person responsible for the construction of the SPFX lightsabers by Jon Bunker.
- Jon Bunker: A member of Stears' SPFX team tasked with producing the lightsabers, who has generously shared a lot of information previously.
Regarding the Motorized Obi-Wan Sabers:
The Wooden Buck.
Recommended Reading:
Wooden master and stunt casts
Was searching through photos and came across these.its the wooden master they used to cast the v2-3 and a cast of the v2-3 in aluminum. What I found interesting was the whole on the windvane. Was it drilled after it was casted or was it just a air bubble in the casting?also unfree the emitter...
www.therpf.com
The wooden buck appears to be turned from some scrap wood based on measurements straight off the Obi-Wan Hero hilt. BRRogers has discovered a possible answer as to why the buck is so close to the hero prop in size - it might have been made on a duplicator lathe, which accounts for some of the marks left on the buck. As seen in Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread.
The wooden buck today is more or less the same size as the Obi-Wan hero prop.
It is unknown who produced it or why the Obi-Wan stunts were produced this way. There were 4 carpenters on the film, but it's likely it was produced by Stears' SPFX shop.
The buck and a raw cast appeared on eBay in the early 2000s, supposedly sold by someone who worked on A New Hope and was in the department that turned it. It did not sell at the time, and later made its way into the hands of the people of Propstore by 2011 and was part of a touring exhibition that appeared at SDCC in 2011 and 2012(?). The pair of sabers were auctioned in 2019 by Propstore and now reside in a private collection.
Lot #720 - STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE (1977) - Obi-Wan Kenobi's (Alec Guinness) First Turned Prototype Lightsaber
An Obi-Wan Kenobi first-turned wooden prototype lightsaber, from the production of George Lucas' Star Wars: A New Hope. The lightsaber, conceptualised by George Lucas and constructed by John Stears and Roger Christian, was made from camera flash handles, battery packs and other hardware. The...
ukm.propstoreauction.com
Lot #721 - STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE (1977) - Obi-Wan Kenobi's (Alec Guinness) First Cast Aluminium Lightsaber
An Obi-Wan Kenobi (Alec Guinness) first-cast aluminium lightsaber from George Lucas' Star Wars: A New Hope.
ukm.propstoreauction.com
The emitter of the buck is almost certainly a separate piece held on by a rod or dowel down the center. The pommel end in theory may be a separate piece which would account for how we get to the metal cast "stumps," but from those that have been near it, it's somewhat indiscernible as-is.
On Casting the Metal Sabers.
Recommended Reading:
Wooden master and stunt casts
Was searching through photos and came across these.its the wooden master they used to cast the v2-3 and a cast of the v2-3 in aluminum. What I found interesting was the whole on the windvane. Was it drilled after it was casted or was it just a air bubble in the casting?also unfree the emitter...
www.therpf.com
Lineage Foundry Cast ANH Kenobi Stunt Hilts
EDIT 08/15/2018: Considering I've gone quite deep into the rabbit hole since posting this thread, and learning quite a lot along the way, I'd thought I'd update this but keep the original posts for posterity sake. EDIT 05/15/2020: Go to Post #111 for the latest, and currently best version...
www.therpf.com
Halliwax's weird V3 theory
2021 Update I originally started this thread back in 2018, its main goal was to prove that some photos which we thought at the time was the v2 was actually the v3. Years have gone by, with new discoveries being made almost every month. There is a lot of new data, discoveries and photos that...
www.therpf.com
This post is a must-read: Halliwax's weird V3 theory -> contains information on the composition of the stunt sabers.
Internal Construction of the Motorized Stunts:
Recommended Reading:
ANH Motorised stunt Saber experiments (& blades) Part 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS (added 1.12.19): Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker. Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc...
www.therpf.com
Bunker's recollection of the internal workings of the Obi-Wan sabers, as shared by Vadermania.
Obi-Wan Emitter Notes:
Does the Emitter Spin?
NOT visible in ANH footage.
Conclusion: Emitters did not intentionally spin in ANH, though likely 2 separate parts connected. Perhaps the connections might have come loose (glued together?) in subsequent films as emitters were cast separately, per buck break.
Obi-Wan Pommels
The pommel on the V3 was previously loose, allowing it to rotate between exhibits. It has been noted that it felt like the booster screw is the only thing holding the pommel on.
Regarding the V2
There is so much information on the V2 out there, that it would be remiss not to give links for additional reading.
MUST READ. Seriously, start at page 1 and read.
Luke ROTJ V2 lightsaber
I have a replica ROTJ hero version, but I have a growing fascination with the Luke V2 saber. If you own a replica of this saber, I'd love to see it. What is the best version out there currently? Is there any substance to the rumour that MR will produce a Luke V2 next year?
www.therpf.com
Additional recommended readings:
New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis
Hello everyone, Over the past few months, I've been revising my Luke V2 model and I think I've just about got it bang on. I asked Roy last week to work his 3d magic and wip up some comparison photos from me and he has done an amazing job. I submit them here for your consideration. Comments are...
www.therpf.com
DaveP's Luke RotJ V2 Research/Development Thread 2021
Intro: Hello everyone. As some of you may know, I’ve been working away on my own version of the V2 for some time now behind the scenes. Well, it’s finally time to unveil the project and where I am in the development process. This thread will serve as a development thread to start with, where I...
www.therpf.com
Luke V2 lever
I've been looking for parts that could be possibilities for the V2s long clamp lever. i saw these bicycle seat post quick release clamps and thought they looked similar in functionality and size. These ones don't look like the lever but could be a vintage model of these that dose. Not sure if...
www.therpf.com
Original V2 switch
In order to not detract from the current V2 run thread - lets talk about the V2's original condition! Toggle switches? it looks more straight and thin than cone shaped to me - - - Updated - - - actually, I'm wrong, it IS the classical cone shaped toggle switch Red guitar toggle switches are...
www.therpf.com
Official Luke RoTJ V2 weigh in!!
I figured starting this thread for easier searching in the future I posted a weigh in of all the different V2's I own. I do not own every version out there, if anyone has a version of the V2 that isn't listed below, please take a picture of it on a kitchen scale and post them here. I'll update...
www.therpf.com
There are a million awesome threads on the V2. There is such a wealth of information out there.
The V2 is the only Obi-Wan stunt saber we can definitively say is seen on-screen for most of the duel, and the cantina sequence.
V2 History, Post filming for reference:
Early 2000s(?)
2015:
- Dubbed the "V2" by PoSW
2015:
- Featured at Star Wars Celebration: Anaheim in "Star Wars Original Props and Costumes” Discussion Panel"
- Star Wars Celebration Anaheim 2015: “Star Wars Original Props and Costumes” Discussion Panel
- Featured in Mark Hamill's Pop Culture Quest
Regarding the V3 (and Stunt Obi-Wan Sabers in general)
Recommended Reading:
Halliwax's weird V3 theory
2021 Update I originally started this thread back in 2018, its main goal was to prove that some photos which we thought at the time was the v2 was actually the v3. Years have gone by, with new discoveries being made almost every month. There is a lot of new data, discoveries and photos that...
www.therpf.com
It is impossible to confirm if the V3 is present in ANH on screen. There is no documentation of the inventory of stunts made for ANH, there appears to have been no documentation during filming, and with the refurbishing that the V3 has received post ANH for both ESB/RotJ dueling, and touring, it would be near impossible to identify it with complete certainty.
The reason the Official Like RotJ V2 Weigh-In is important:
Lightsaber hitchhikes aboard shuttle
abcnews.go.com
NASA Launches Lightsaber With Space Shuttle
Luke Skywalker's lightsaber from "Return of the Jedi" fulfills its cosmic destiny by being launched into space with space shuttle Discovery as part of the 30th anniversary of "Star Wars."
www.popularmechanics.com
I filed a FOIA with NASA for more information, unfortunately there was nothing else besides this lovely inventory line:
History of the V3, post filming years for reference:
1993:
- Refurbished in the Archives for tour in Japan and to be featured in a book
- Appears in the book: "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives"
- Appears in "The Art of Star Wars" exhibit in the Yerba Buena Center in San Francisco
- Pictures taken in the Archives that now appear in the Original Prop Blogs' article
- Featured in the book: "Star Wars: The Visual Dictionary"
- Went on tour as part of "The Art of Star Wars," at locations including Barbican Art Gallery(?) and the Helsinki City Art Museum(?)
- Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
- Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
- Launched on STS-120 (Which also delivered the Harmony module to the ISS!) and taken into space, subsequently kept at the Houston Space Center for a time. *NASA inventory number was added at this time
- Still in possession of NASA(?) as it appeared in "The Films of George Lucas" at the Johnson Space Center
- In early 2010, appears to be at the Main House at Skywalker Ranch
- Later appears at a museum in Sacramento
- Supposedly kept in the Main House at Skywalker Ranch (as of 2015)
Regarding Other Obi-Wan Sabers
The actual amount of Obi-Wan stunt sabers is anyone's guess. In Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread there are discussions on the Death Saber, the Hoth Hammer Saber, and the Warehouse Stunt.
Regarding the Barbican:
Recommended Reading:
ANH Vader Stunt Lightsaber
Edits: 12/22 The Barbican was used heavily in ESB as a fencing stunt. The motor was taken out and it was drilled out for a solid core. Screws and T track were put on In Jedi it was molded for Vaders severed hand and rotocast. The emitter shroud which was square for 2 movies, was finally cut...
www.therpf.com
(As the hilt is today)
The “Barbican” was initially planned to be Vader’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real MPP clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track (Plus a small 1.5” piece used to replicate the MPP bulb release button.), an open-hole end cap, and square aluminum shroud reminiscent of an MPP.
Although the prop has been refinished today after years of filming in RotJ and ESB, we can still gather some details about it. Based on the size of the switch hole, it is likely the Barbican utilized a toggle switch similar to the V2, as a lamp push button as seen on the motorized Graflex requires a larger hole to be drilled, as seen above.
Note that due to the switch location, the motor in the real Barbican would be seated remarkably high up. I believe this is likely why some issues were encountered. The heavier HMP/Antenna based blades probably dragged on the motor, the clashes likely loosened the core as well, assuming it was held with a set screw under the shroud. Note that the shroud was likely not secured as to why Prowse holds it in such weird ways to stop it from falling off. It’s likely this was intentionally designed to allow you to access the screws that would allow you to change blades and accounts for the images where the shroud is attached on reverse.
The reason it was ultimately ditched in favor of the Graflex stunt on the final day of dueling is somewhat a mystery because the Barbican was present on day 3 of filming. Perhaps by then the other Barbicans had completely failed, forcing production to utilize Luke’s stunt saber.
Also, in this image here, you can also make out what appears to be a jack-plug connector, as described by Bunker on his notes and diagrams. I personally have many questions regarding this image.
Barbican History, post filming:
2005:
- Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
- Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
- Resin saber and severed hand were in Bob Burn's collection at least till then
- Contained in the Lucasfilm archives
Regarding the Motorized Graflex:
Recommended Reading:
ANH Motorised stunt Saber experiments (& blades) Part 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS (added 1.12.19): Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker. Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc...
www.therpf.com
The motorized Graflex was Luke Skywalker’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real graflex clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track, a “thin-knurl” Folmer Graflex button, a “beer tab,” a Graflex Glass eye, and an end cap seemingly scavenged from camera parts.
Later, this saber would go on to serve as Vader’s stunt saber on the final day of the duel with either a painted or taped off shroud – wires cut as well. It was then subsequently utilized for promotional photos in its post-dueling state.
It is again possible multiple of these were made. Note in ESB, there appears to be a stunt featuring a similar long lever as seen on the V2. Unfortunately, after filming ESB it appears this saber was walked off set and hasn’t surfaced since.
The wires utilized “power pole” connectors in white and red specifically. There appear to have been some difficulties getting the saber setup while filming the hut sequence.
Post filming the OT, there are no surviving examples of motorized Graflexes.
On Motorization:
How many motorized sabers were built?
Evidence is inconclusive on the actual number of sabers built, and is hotly debated topic.
With regards to motors....
*Dykstra was likely not involved with the construction of the SPFX Sabers as far as we know, unlikely that this information is accurate.
Note: No “Marklin” motor match found yet. A “Marklin Metaal” motor was a close match to these specs, however it was in a rectangular case and made in the early 80s, not mid-70s.
On Blades
Recommended Reading:
The ANH LightSaber Blade Reference Thread
WELCOME TO THE ANH LIGHTSABER BLADE REFERENCE THREAD (aka ANH LSRF ) PLEASE – this is a reference thread. IF you want to comment, discuss – anything – then Please use this companion thread: ANH lightsaber blade Reference companion thread. ANH lightsaber blade Reference companion thread I came...
www.therpf.com
The OT stunt lightsaber blades research thread
So...any new ideas about the origins of the OT stunt lightsaber blades after reading through the new STW archives book from Paul Duncan? I have my problems in believing that the ANH stunt blades were square from the emitter to the tip. My gut feeling is that they were round at the base and...
www.therpf.com
Is Darth Vader's saber blade painted (ANH) & blade flexing.
I can't find anything in the forum on this (doesn't mean it's not there) but while researching something else I noticed there's a short sequence in which smoke or dust comes off Darth Vader's light saber (look for cursor arrow). Check out the youtube vid at full speed & it's quite obvious (from...
www.therpf.com
The first blades...
The First Filming Blades:
The Duel Filming Blades:
==================
Addendum:
Shipping notes expanded based on documents for reference:
Addendum:
Shipping notes expanded based on documents for reference:
Plan as of Jan 16th
Feb 28 for Speeder (3 weeks before location shooting, 1 week before last truck to leave)
Feb 2 Shipment 1 leave expected
Plan as of Jan 23rd
March 22 Deadline
Feb 14 – Speeder body ready
(Idea of air freighter for speeder and late shipments entertained)
Jan 30 Load Shipment 1 (3, upped to 4 total trucks) <Construction Materials
Feb 2 Shipment 1 Departure
Shipment 1 contains Dinosaur
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Anticipated
Shipment 2 anticipated to have “props on board.” But construction gets priority if gear doesn’t fit on first shipment
Noted last viable date for departures by truck:
March 5 Load
March 8 Departure
Plan as of Feb 5th
Feb 5 Shipment 2 Load (3 trucks)
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Departure
March 16 - Air freighter settled on, a plan is requested for what to bring on plane and what to leave behind in Tunisia
“Both Speeders to go on freighter. Also 10 robots and other essentials such as laser swords may be fitted into personal charter.”
Plan as of Feb 10th
Feb 20 shipment, “One Subercube” (Construction, SP.FX. and Props anticipated)
3 Speeders
1 Life-Pod
2 Sections of “Christmas Tree”
2 [Bins?] of large fuelage
1 [Boner?] (SP.FX.)
Smalls & Bits from Props Dept.
March 5 shipment, “One Road Track”
Animals
Speeder Shells (3 or 4)
RIG (SP.FX.) For Suspending Speeder (5 ton)
SP.FX. “Prop” Box
SP.FX. Ancillary Equipment
SP.FX. Tools
SP.FX. Fog Machine
Plan as of Feb 16, (Loading Air freighter)
Feb 17, Customs
Feb 18, Flight
Speeder 1
All Robots (7?)
[____] of speeder shells
SP.FX. Smalls (Remote Control Units, etc.)
Plan as of Feb 13th
Feb 20 Shipment 3 Departure
March 5 Shipment 4 Departure
March 15 Air Freighter Flight Departure
March 20 Personnel Charter
Feb 28 for Speeder (3 weeks before location shooting, 1 week before last truck to leave)
Feb 2 Shipment 1 leave expected
Plan as of Jan 23rd
March 22 Deadline
Feb 14 – Speeder body ready
(Idea of air freighter for speeder and late shipments entertained)
Jan 30 Load Shipment 1 (3, upped to 4 total trucks) <Construction Materials
Feb 2 Shipment 1 Departure
Shipment 1 contains Dinosaur
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Anticipated
Shipment 2 anticipated to have “props on board.” But construction gets priority if gear doesn’t fit on first shipment
Noted last viable date for departures by truck:
March 5 Load
March 8 Departure
Plan as of Feb 5th
Feb 5 Shipment 2 Load (3 trucks)
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Departure
March 16 - Air freighter settled on, a plan is requested for what to bring on plane and what to leave behind in Tunisia
“Both Speeders to go on freighter. Also 10 robots and other essentials such as laser swords may be fitted into personal charter.”
Plan as of Feb 10th
Feb 20 shipment, “One Subercube” (Construction, SP.FX. and Props anticipated)
3 Speeders
1 Life-Pod
2 Sections of “Christmas Tree”
2 [Bins?] of large fuelage
1 [Boner?] (SP.FX.)
Smalls & Bits from Props Dept.
March 5 shipment, “One Road Track”
Animals
Speeder Shells (3 or 4)
RIG (SP.FX.) For Suspending Speeder (5 ton)
SP.FX. “Prop” Box
SP.FX. Ancillary Equipment
SP.FX. Tools
SP.FX. Fog Machine
Plan as of Feb 16, (Loading Air freighter)
Feb 17, Customs
Feb 18, Flight
Speeder 1
All Robots (7?)
[____] of speeder shells
SP.FX. Smalls (Remote Control Units, etc.)
Plan as of Feb 13th
Feb 20 Shipment 3 Departure
March 5 Shipment 4 Departure
March 15 Air Freighter Flight Departure
March 20 Personnel Charter
On Rotoscoping:
Interviews with Nelson Shin (Rotoscope artist on ANH)
Sound
Odd Stories/Quotes:
You can find many Roger Christian quotes in the google drive folder. Here are a few other odd stories that don't exactly make sense, as these two were involved in the US side of Special Effects at ILM.
It's interesting to note what Dykstra says, as the filtering of the light seems to refer to the trials on the 23rd.
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In conclusion, there are small adjustments I need to make to this post, adding more links to relevant discussions and where some of this information was drawn from. I wish I could add more images, but there is a 50 file limit, and I can not add any more, unfortunately.Initially, this thread and the information here was collected to dispel a lot of rumors and further our research as a community. I personally wanted to get to the bottom of a lot of the why's. Maybe I got to the bottom of some, but I've ran into so many dead ends that I literally exhausted basically every lead I had.
Anyhow, there is need for a special thanks to a number of people I bothered in PMs regarding this like Halliwax, Vadermania, BRRogers, thd9791, and a few other people who graciously took time to share information and help me look over all this.
This post is still a WIP, I am not happy with some of the formatting in a few areas, but it's the best I can do right now. I'd also like to add an ESB/RotJ section to the addendum, but anyhow. I'll clean it up sometime. I wish I had more to add, but 'till next time, I hope this gets your mind turning on some things.
I have some more stuff floating around my head regarding blades and the Obi's specifically but that is probably better served in their respective threads (and because I just reached the 50 file limit and can't add any more pics lol.)
There wasn't really a specific aim to this thread, just some loose points all around. I just wanted to lay everything out in a timeline and address a few things while I was at it. I hope this was informative and might help other discussions regarding specific aspects of these sabers at the very least. Perhaps this thread can serve as a place to discuss all those random small theories poking around in one's mind.
And special thanks to the people who I bothered in PMs discussing this stuff at length with haha.
edit: fixing some of the image that came out small for some reason. And added some more quick words in a few parts.
There wasn't really a specific aim to this thread, just some loose points all around. I just wanted to lay everything out in a timeline and address a few things while I was at it. I hope this was informative and might help other discussions regarding specific aspects of these sabers at the very least. Perhaps this thread can serve as a place to discuss all those random small theories poking around in one's mind.
And special thanks to the people who I bothered in PMs discussing this stuff at length with haha.
edit: fixing some of the image that came out small for some reason. And added some more quick words in a few parts.
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