LOM
Well-Known Member
Hi everyone!
Spurred by some of the recent discussions on the “”prototype”” MPP and Graflex that were recently auctioned, I wanted to share some information I collected and put into a timeline. I've found it helps me understand what might or might not have gone on during production.
I've been gathering info on and off on this for the past six months or so now... This is more of an informative post that is going to bounce around a LOT because I organized this a bit oddly in my doc. I kind of just want to put this out here as some handy information because bits and pieces in here are relevant to quite a few other saber discussions I think. Also, I've tried to credit and link much of the relevant bits as well.
Also, I mention a lot of production memos and stuff without inserting the original documents. If you want to check them for yourself, you can view most of what I mentioned here in this google drive. In addition you will find a lot of BTS photos I've collected, and there is also a doc in there that is just a wall of Roger Christian interviews because I was curious to see how his story evolved, I've pulled most of my quotes from him from there.
I should also say - I can't 100% confirm if I've got this right at all of course in the theory department, so if you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to poke holes in it. I've generally tried to leave most of this more factual so that others can draw their own conclusions or theories.
Also, I am continually updating this first post with quick small changes and more info as a heads up. Last Updated: August 6th
Early Ralph McQuarrie Concepts
Per: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1975
February 14-15, 1975
Original McQuarrie Concepts:
January 14th – First Special Effects Tests Completed
“The Wizards at Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," R2-D2 and illuminated control boards.”
Source: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1976
January 16th – Notes of Meeting Held In Conference Room On January 1976.
January 16th – Notes Pertaining to HOD’s [Head of Directors] Meeting held at EMI Studios at 5 p.m. on Friday, January 16th, 1976.
January 19th – Meeting between George Lucas, Roger Christian, and John Stears
Photos are dated as circa January 14, 1976 – January 25, 1976.
Source: Star Wars “Original Prototype Lightsabers from 1976 Meeting”
We see:
Roger Christian additional quotes on initial SPFX prototypes:
January 20th – George Lucas and Gil Taylor Discuss Filming
January 23rd – Special Effects Tests of Laser Swords. (Rescheduled from 21st)
Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," and Jawa eyes.
We see that many of these hilts are based on the McQuarrie Jousting design, but what I found interesting is that Mr. Bunker's quote regarding intentionally breaking blades possibly seems to be this hilt above? As I've not seen any other hilt or blade that seems like it was supposed to break.
Types of Laser Swords tested on this day:
Below is the first motorized test saber:
[Unknown Date], Early Production – Alec Guinness, David Prowse, George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, and Peter Diamond meet on an Elstree stage(?) to rehearse with early lightsabers.
[Images likely taken on Gary Kurtz personal camera]
Here we can see the early “lance” hilt that was apparently designed to break being used in practice as George Lucas and stunt-coordinator Peter Diamond watch. They appear to have flipped the dish above the handle, likely to test how that would look in camera per the discussion on January 16th. Also, this design would give an effect very reminiscent of McQuarrie’s original paintings with the bulge of light above the emitter of the hilt.
Shipping Notes
As of Feb 5th
As of Feb 10th
It is therefore very likely that the Hero Luke and Obi-Wan hilt designs were settled on between January 19th and February 5th.
My Theory:
Production was clearly running late. Props and special effects items were approved in very short times before filming. That much is apparent from the production memos.
The only noted special effects test for sabers took place on January 23rd (after being rescheduled from the 21st), and those aren't anything close to the final product save for the motorized one. So when did they make the stunt sabers? Obviously the hero hilts have to be approved before you can make correct stunt sabers, so there is now about a two week window for heroes to be selected, so stunt saber development probably began shortly after, probably before the personnel charter was set to leave to Tunisia with the hero hilts. But, with the tight schedule it seems there was almost no time for Stears' to work on continual development of these stunt sabers with key pieces falling behind schedule.
That brings us to this quote...
If I had to guess, the stunt sabers were not finished before filming began. Bunker quotes a "Bert Hamilton" as the guy in charge of developing the stunt sabers. Why isn't it Stears? Could it be because Stears was in Tunisia operating R2 during their construction, and the remaining SPFX team at Elstree scrounged up the materials, possibly out of whatever they could because of a nonexistent budget as all the key players are in Tunisia filming? Just with the goal in mind to have the sabers ready for when they returned as the cantina and hut sequences were filmed fairly early on if I recall. It would also explain the lack of documentation of the development too.
Though, it's probable that Stears' was responsible for coming up with the spinning effect/the final electronic set up because he is the one handling the motorized saber in the test footage.
I personally think the SPFX Obi hilts began to be worked on pretty early, but I'm not exactly sure what variation its based on. I feel that the angles of the cubes on the Tunisia version are closer to the buck, but the groove below the cubes on the Chronicles is a match for one of the details on the buck. (I admit I am not an expert in real parts Obis at all, so I might've botched my description)
The windvane positioning also does not match the chronicles build at all, the part above the neck and below the windvane is quite long and the Tunisia version looks closer to it from the blurry pic we have:
Alternatively there could have been two heroes and 1 was kept for reference for the SPFX department?
I recall reading that Stears’ supplied some of his own technicians to assist the engineers in the development of R2, which means to me, it seems like they may have had influence on metal casting Obi’s after seeing the cast metal flippers. Perhaps now that sabers are their primary focus now that everyone is in Tunisia, they got an idea to use the same method to make hilts.
However, the OpenR2 project noted that professionals cast the R2 arms after supplying a company with a 'drawing' not a buck. I have many doubts about the stunt hilts being professionally cast based on the seamlines and wonkyness.
One other thing to note: production documents mention:
FILMING
Filming the Cantina – April 13, 15, 20. 21
Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness film their scene together in the Cantina Set.
Thanks again to dcarty opening his copy of "The Cinema of George Lucas" and looking up the additional filming reports I did not have!
Call sheet for April 20th notes:
Note: No front projection effect was used according to the call sheet.
3 Known Takes:
The V2 appears to be used in the cantina sequence. The blade appears to be extra-long compared to subsequent uses of the V2(?)
Filming Ben’s “Cave” – April 23, 26
The scene inside of Obi-Wan's home was filmed at this time. After filming inside of Obi-Wan's home was completed, George Lucas and John Barry did a quick walk through of the set the crew would be filming on the following Monday - the Death Star corridor.
Day 1
Image: Kurtz-Joiner archive I believe via Star Wars Aficionado.
You can also catch a glimpse of the front projection set up being used for filming in front of the camera!
I believe this day of filming included Kenobi giving Skywalker the saber, but Guinness demands rewrites of his dialogue so they probably rewrite it then and there, and film a few more scenes before the end of the day because of the 4m screen time taken.
(I believe the woman in the first pic is Ann Skinner, she has a continuity script binder(?) clearly in another photo I've seen but apparently didn't save.
I believe the SPFX lightsaber malfunctioned on Day 1 substantially.. So....
Day 2
Likely consisted of just waving the SPFX hilt around and getting that right ignition right. I don't have a lot of evidence for this, but some pictures seem to indicate that they mainly focused on filming the hilt for awhile on this day. Since Anthony Daniels isn't on set on this day, you can kind of spot when images might be from day 2.
Image courtesy of: Scottjua
April 26th – Note: AFTER filming the Cave
Alec Guinness is interviewed by the Sunday Times about his character in the film.
Filming the Falcon – May 10
* Footage of the 2nd image somewhere online, I didn't save the link it's a blooper and the helmet falls off.
Call Sheet for Monday, May 10th, 1976 Notes:
Note: This is possibly the day when some Chronicle photos were taken. Note the call for “all principles” continuity weapons.
Motorized Graflex stunt appears to use a similar blade to that used in the Hut. (To me anyways)
On Filming the Duel – May 27, 28; June 1
Note: Reshoots potentially did take place for the “cut down” scene at later times besides these 3 primary filming days. *Reshoots possibly on June 3rd(?)*
Day 1:
Entering more theory/speculation again...
The primary hilts used in filming on this day are the V2 and the Barbican. However, this day would show some unusual features of the Barbican as well what seems to be another unmotorized stand-in stunt for Obi Wan.
Primary Hilt (V2): Secondary Stand-in Hilt(?):
Barbican:
The age old question, "Was the Barbican wired on set?" Yep!
I've seen a high resolution unpainted version of the image on the left, in front of the control panel you can see a wire hanging down with a red connector (jack plug perhaps? hmm...) Also, please note that on the image on the left, the shroud of the Barbican being white is not from the airbrush. Although I so wish this was evidence for a 2nd hilt, looking at the 2nd image, it probably just caught the studio light.
Day 2:
I *think* the images above are from day 2 but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain most of the Day 2 consists of takes of Vader striking Obi-Wan down and the use of the collapsible skeleton constructed by Stears’ team. In addition, the scenes of Vader cornering Kenobi in the main hangar bay is filmed as well.
The Barbican is still used for filming on this day.
I believe they filmed the "cloak collapsing" scene something like 6 times. We have evidence of a couple at the very least:
Skeleton does not fully collapse in the Making of Star Wars film. (Interestingly in the documentary, you see one of the guys on set handling a special effects blade as well. Footage:
Possibly one take
Note the different cloak location and saber blade along the wall.
And the film take is different than all of these I think.
2 different takes based on hood position... 2 different hilts? First pic looks a bit narrower, and is wired. The 2nd image has that solid black emitter with specks on the edge that we can see in a film still I think.
2nd image can clearly be seen in the film:
Day 3, the Hallway Sequence:
Here's an interesting hilt on this day of filming. Minimal edge visible wear on emitter plate. Potentially a “tall collar” on the blade. Visible throughout most of the hallway sequence. And makes it in film:
What appears to be a second hilt on this day, identifiable due to wear pattern on emitter faceplate. (V2?)
Jon Bunker noted that he did not recall what went wrong with the Barbican, but that it might've had something to do with hiding the wires. I believe Mr. Alinger or the Rinzler book backs that up, and I think those images show that might've been the problem.
After what was likely some initial test shots and photos for lighting, the decision to cut the wires on the Barbican was made. Only those two photos I've found show a wired Barbican. So, it must have been a fairly early decision on set to remove the motorized effect, and I can totally see it being done because they couldn't hide the wires now.
Oddly, Luke’s motorized Graflex serves on day 3, acting as Vader’s stunt hilt...
However, the Barbican also makes an appearance on this day! It is visible in the film as well as on some of the BTS footage as seen below. It is identifiable due to the way Prowse holds it. So why what caused the need for the Graflex stunt to take its place in one scene or take? The Barbican was on set, was it suddenly unable to take a blade? I don’t know.
(teecrooz has a gif of this footage below)
On Lightsaber Construction
[WIP]
Regarding the Motorized Obi-Wan Sabers:
[WIP]
Regarding the Barbican:
(As the hilt is today)
The “Barbican” was initially planned to be Vader’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real MPP clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track (Plus a small 1.5” piece used to replicate the MPP bulb release button.), an open-hole end cap, and square aluminum shroud reminiscent of an MPP.
Although the prop has been refinished today after years of filming in RotJ and ESB, we can still gather some details about it. Based on the size of the switch hole, it is likely the Barbican utilized a toggle switch similar to the V2, as a lamp push button as seen on the motorized Graflex requires a larger hole to be drilled, as seen above.
Note that due to the switch location, the motor in the real Barbican would be seated remarkably high up. I believe this is likely why some issues were encountered. The heavier HMP/Antenna based blades probably dragged on the motor, the clashes likely loosened the core as well, assuming it was held with a set screw under the shroud. Note that the shroud was likely not secured as to why Prowse holds it in such weird ways to stop it from falling off. It’s likely this was intentionally designed to allow you to access the screws that would allow you to change blades and accounts for the images where the shroud is attached on reverse.
The reason it was ultimately ditched in favor of the Graflex stunt on the final day of dueling is somewhat a mystery because the Barbican was present on day 3 of filming. Perhaps by then the other Barbicans had completely failed, forcing production to utilize Luke’s stunt saber.
Also, in this image here, you can also make out what appears to be a jack-plug connector, as described by Bunker on his notes and diagrams. I personally have many questions regarding this image.
Regarding the Motorized Graflex:
The motorized Graflex was Luke Skywalker’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real graflex clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track, a “thin-knurl” Folmer Graflex button, a “beer tab,” a Graflex Glass eye, and an end cap seemingly scavenged from camera parts.
Later, this saber would go on to serve as Vader’s stunt saber on the final day of the duel with either a painted or taped off shroud – wires cut as well. It was then subsequently utilized for promotional photos in its post-dueling state.
It is again possible multiple of these were made. Note in ESB, there appears to be a stunt featuring a similar long lever as seen on the V2. Unfortunately, after filming ESB it appears this saber was walked off set and hasn’t surfaced since.
The wires utilized “power pole” connectors in white and red specifically. There appear to have been some difficulties getting the saber setup while filming the hut sequence.
On Blades
Recommended Reading:
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-anh-lightsaber-blade-reference-thread.301164/
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-ot-stunt-lightsaber-blades-research-thread.298206/
(This section includes many quotes taken from Mouse Vader's reference thread above, including quotes shared by Vadermania, scarf man)
The first blades...
The First Filming Blades:
The Duel Filming Blades:
There wasn't really a specific aim to this thread, just some loose points all around. I just wanted to lay everything out in a timeline and address a few things while I was at it. I hope this was informative and might help other discussions regarding specific aspects of these sabers at the very least. Perhaps this thread can serve as a place to discuss all those random small theories poking around in one's mind.
And special thanks to the people who I bothered in PMs discussing this stuff at length with haha.
edit: fixing some of the image that came out small for some reason. And added some more quick words in a few parts.
Spurred by some of the recent discussions on the “”prototype”” MPP and Graflex that were recently auctioned, I wanted to share some information I collected and put into a timeline. I've found it helps me understand what might or might not have gone on during production.
I've been gathering info on and off on this for the past six months or so now... This is more of an informative post that is going to bounce around a LOT because I organized this a bit oddly in my doc. I kind of just want to put this out here as some handy information because bits and pieces in here are relevant to quite a few other saber discussions I think. Also, I've tried to credit and link much of the relevant bits as well.
Also, I mention a lot of production memos and stuff without inserting the original documents. If you want to check them for yourself, you can view most of what I mentioned here in this google drive. In addition you will find a lot of BTS photos I've collected, and there is also a doc in there that is just a wall of Roger Christian interviews because I was curious to see how his story evolved, I've pulled most of my quotes from him from there.
I should also say - I can't 100% confirm if I've got this right at all of course in the theory department, so if you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to poke holes in it. I've generally tried to leave most of this more factual so that others can draw their own conclusions or theories.
Also, I am continually updating this first post with quick small changes and more info as a heads up. Last Updated: August 6th
Early Ralph McQuarrie Concepts
February 14-15, 1975
Original McQuarrie Concepts:
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhere
Interestingly, two of these concepts on the sketch to the left appear to match the hilts wielded in "Laser Duel" above, and seem to match two of the concepts presented on the January 19th meeting.
Early Production, “Elstree Testing” Early 1976January 14th – First Special Effects Tests Completed
“The Wizards at Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," R2-D2 and illuminated control boards.”
Source: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1976
January 16th – Notes of Meeting Held In Conference Room On January 1976.
* Monday query refers to the January 19th meeting.
January 16th – Notes Pertaining to HOD’s [Head of Directors] Meeting held at EMI Studios at 5 p.m. on Friday, January 16th, 1976.
The document additionally notes:
January 19th – Meeting between George Lucas, Roger Christian, and John Stears
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhere
I find it more than likely these are the hilt parts that were discussed on this day:Photos are dated as circa January 14, 1976 – January 25, 1976.
Source: Star Wars “Original Prototype Lightsabers from 1976 Meeting”
We see:
- 1 Safety Torch
- 1 Diving Torch
- 1 Unknown black handle (?)
- 1 Unknown skinny handle (?)
- 1 Hales No. 3 Mk 1 Grenade
- 4 Balance Pipes in an assembly
Because of Christians' account that the Stears' prototypes were all the torch/flashlight style handles, he probably brought the grenade and balance pipe assembly to the meeting.
Roger Christian additional quotes on initial SPFX prototypes:
January 20th – George Lucas and Gil Taylor Discuss Filming
Interesting tidbit, as in the film there are actually 4 shots with a saber. It seems that the Falcon training scene was a late addition?
January 23rd – Special Effects Tests of Laser Swords. (Rescheduled from 21st)
Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," and Jawa eyes.
We see that many of these hilts are based on the McQuarrie Jousting design, but what I found interesting is that Mr. Bunker's quote regarding intentionally breaking blades possibly seems to be this hilt above? As I've not seen any other hilt or blade that seems like it was supposed to break.
Types of Laser Swords tested on this day:
- X2 “Lances” - dish downwards, designed to break.
- X1 ''Sword,” likely to fit the description of “Excalibur”
- X1 “Motorized” test hilt - 3-sided blade(?)
- X2 “Epee” Fencing Swords
- X1 Small Sword
- X1 Small sword with guard
Below is the first motorized test saber:
[Unknown Date], Early Production – Alec Guinness, David Prowse, George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, and Peter Diamond meet on an Elstree stage(?) to rehearse with early lightsabers.
[Images likely taken on Gary Kurtz personal camera]
Here we can see the early “lance” hilt that was apparently designed to break being used in practice as George Lucas and stunt-coordinator Peter Diamond watch. They appear to have flipped the dish above the handle, likely to test how that would look in camera per the discussion on January 16th. Also, this design would give an effect very reminiscent of McQuarrie’s original paintings with the bulge of light above the emitter of the hilt.
Shipping Notes
As of Feb 5th
This document indicates that hero hilts have likely been selected as of February 5th. Personnel Charter planned to depart March 20-22.
As of Feb 10th
Alternate dates the hilts may have been shipped out on indicated above, because of the emphasis on props.
It is therefore very likely that the Hero Luke and Obi-Wan hilt designs were settled on between January 19th and February 5th.
My Theory:
Production was clearly running late. Props and special effects items were approved in very short times before filming. That much is apparent from the production memos.
The only noted special effects test for sabers took place on January 23rd (after being rescheduled from the 21st), and those aren't anything close to the final product save for the motorized one. So when did they make the stunt sabers? Obviously the hero hilts have to be approved before you can make correct stunt sabers, so there is now about a two week window for heroes to be selected, so stunt saber development probably began shortly after, probably before the personnel charter was set to leave to Tunisia with the hero hilts. But, with the tight schedule it seems there was almost no time for Stears' to work on continual development of these stunt sabers with key pieces falling behind schedule.
That brings us to this quote...
If I had to guess, the stunt sabers were not finished before filming began. Bunker quotes a "Bert Hamilton" as the guy in charge of developing the stunt sabers. Why isn't it Stears? Could it be because Stears was in Tunisia operating R2 during their construction, and the remaining SPFX team at Elstree scrounged up the materials, possibly out of whatever they could because of a nonexistent budget as all the key players are in Tunisia filming? Just with the goal in mind to have the sabers ready for when they returned as the cantina and hut sequences were filmed fairly early on if I recall. It would also explain the lack of documentation of the development too.
Though, it's probable that Stears' was responsible for coming up with the spinning effect/the final electronic set up because he is the one handling the motorized saber in the test footage.
I personally think the SPFX Obi hilts began to be worked on pretty early, but I'm not exactly sure what variation its based on. I feel that the angles of the cubes on the Tunisia version are closer to the buck, but the groove below the cubes on the Chronicles is a match for one of the details on the buck. (I admit I am not an expert in real parts Obis at all, so I might've botched my description)
The windvane positioning also does not match the chronicles build at all, the part above the neck and below the windvane is quite long and the Tunisia version looks closer to it from the blurry pic we have:
Alternatively there could have been two heroes and 1 was kept for reference for the SPFX department?
I recall reading that Stears’ supplied some of his own technicians to assist the engineers in the development of R2, which means to me, it seems like they may have had influence on metal casting Obi’s after seeing the cast metal flippers. Perhaps now that sabers are their primary focus now that everyone is in Tunisia, they got an idea to use the same method to make hilts.
However, the OpenR2 project noted that professionals cast the R2 arms after supplying a company with a 'drawing' not a buck. I have many doubts about the stunt hilts being professionally cast based on the seamlines and wonkyness.
One other thing to note: production documents mention:
In reference to casting the then named Dia Nogu... Casting metal seems a bit more involved than basic casting. Food for thought.
==================================================
`FILMING
Filming the Cantina – April 13, 15, 20. 21
Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness film their scene together in the Cantina Set.
Thanks again to dcarty opening his copy of "The Cinema of George Lucas" and looking up the additional filming reports I did not have!
| Report No19: Thursday April 15 Sets: Stage Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: 50 PART [Obi-Wan uses his lightsaber in the Cantina] Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 48s | Report No.20: Wednesday, April 14 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: AA53 RETAKE, 50 PART Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 10s | Report No. 21: Thursday, April 15 Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: 50 PART Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 30s. Daily Status: 1 Day Behind | Report No.22: Tuesday, April 20 Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: ZB50 (EXTRA SCENE) [Luke and Obi-Wan meet Han Solo]; 50 PART (EXTRA SCENE) [Han and Greedo] Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 00s. | Report No.21: Wednesday, April 21 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94 (retake); Stage 6-INT. Cantina Scene Numbers: AA53, etc. Scs. Completed Today: 1 Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 22s. Daily Status: 1 Day Behind |
Call sheet for April 20th notes:
Note: No front projection effect was used according to the call sheet.
3 Known Takes:
- Film Take
- Star Wars Black and White “Rough Cut”
- Color Footage on YT (211, take 3, “Guide Track”)
The V2 appears to be used in the cantina sequence. The blade appears to be extra-long compared to subsequent uses of the V2(?)
Filming Ben’s “Cave” – April 23, 26
The scene inside of Obi-Wan's home was filmed at this time. After filming inside of Obi-Wan's home was completed, George Lucas and John Barry did a quick walk through of the set the crew would be filming on the following Monday - the Death Star corridor.
| Report No. 25: Friday, April 23 Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave Scene Numbers: 42 PART [Obi-Wan views Leia’s message] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 4m 00s. | Report No. 26: Monday, April 26 Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave; Stage 2-INT. Death Star Scenes Numbers: 42 COMP,; 111 [Vader espies Kenobi] Screen Time Taken To-Day 57s. | ((Is there a day 3 Report Missing? I've seen reference to a 3rd day of filming but I did not see a report for this.)) |
Day 1
Image: Kurtz-Joiner archive I believe via Star Wars Aficionado.
You can also catch a glimpse of the front projection set up being used for filming in front of the camera!
I believe this day of filming included Kenobi giving Skywalker the saber, but Guinness demands rewrites of his dialogue so they probably rewrite it then and there, and film a few more scenes before the end of the day because of the 4m screen time taken.
(I believe the woman in the first pic is Ann Skinner, she has a continuity script binder(?) clearly in another photo I've seen but apparently didn't save.
I believe the SPFX lightsaber malfunctioned on Day 1 substantially.. So....
Day 2
Likely consisted of just waving the SPFX hilt around and getting that right ignition right. I don't have a lot of evidence for this, but some pictures seem to indicate that they mainly focused on filming the hilt for awhile on this day. Since Anthony Daniels isn't on set on this day, you can kind of spot when images might be from day 2.
Image courtesy of: Scottjua
April 26th – Note: AFTER filming the Cave
Alec Guinness is interviewed by the Sunday Times about his character in the film.
*reference to the bubble strip on the hero saber most likely. Thought this was a cool mention.
Filming the Falcon – May 10
* Footage of the 2nd image somewhere online, I didn't save the link it's a blooper and the helmet falls off.
| Report No. 35: Friday, May 7 Sets: Stage 9-INT. Pirate Starship Hallway Scene Numbers: 67 PART [Luke training with seeker; hologram board game] Scs. Completed Today: - Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 50s. |
Call Sheet for Monday, May 10th, 1976 Notes:
Note: This sequence was also filmed using a front projection effect per call sheet.
Note: This is possibly the day when some Chronicle photos were taken. Note the call for “all principles” continuity weapons.
Motorized Graflex stunt appears to use a similar blade to that used in the Hut. (To me anyways)
On Filming the Duel – May 27, 28; June 1
| Report No. 49: Thursday May 27 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay Scene Numbers: 117 PART [Obi-Wan is cut down] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 29s | Report No. 50: Friday, May 28 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay Scene Numbers: 117 Part Screen Time Taken To-Day: 16s | Report No. 51: Tuesday, June 1 Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star- Main Docking Bay Scene Numbers: 116 PART [Vader to Obi-Wan: "We meet again at last"] Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 39s |
Day 1:
Entering more theory/speculation again...
The primary hilts used in filming on this day are the V2 and the Barbican. However, this day would show some unusual features of the Barbican as well what seems to be another unmotorized stand-in stunt for Obi Wan.
Primary Hilt (V2): Secondary Stand-in Hilt(?):
Barbican:
The age old question, "Was the Barbican wired on set?" Yep!
I've seen a high resolution unpainted version of the image on the left, in front of the control panel you can see a wire hanging down with a red connector (jack plug perhaps? hmm...) Also, please note that on the image on the left, the shroud of the Barbican being white is not from the airbrush. Although I so wish this was evidence for a 2nd hilt, looking at the 2nd image, it probably just caught the studio light.
Day 2:
I *think* the images above are from day 2 but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain most of the Day 2 consists of takes of Vader striking Obi-Wan down and the use of the collapsible skeleton constructed by Stears’ team. In addition, the scenes of Vader cornering Kenobi in the main hangar bay is filmed as well.
The Barbican is still used for filming on this day.
I believe they filmed the "cloak collapsing" scene something like 6 times. We have evidence of a couple at the very least:
Skeleton does not fully collapse in the Making of Star Wars film. (Interestingly in the documentary, you see one of the guys on set handling a special effects blade as well. Footage:
And the film take is different than all of these I think.
2 different takes based on hood position... 2 different hilts? First pic looks a bit narrower, and is wired. The 2nd image has that solid black emitter with specks on the edge that we can see in a film still I think.
2nd image can clearly be seen in the film:
Day 3, the Hallway Sequence:
Here's an interesting hilt on this day of filming. Minimal edge visible wear on emitter plate. Potentially a “tall collar” on the blade. Visible throughout most of the hallway sequence. And makes it in film:
What appears to be a second hilt on this day, identifiable due to wear pattern on emitter faceplate. (V2?)
What went wrong with the Barbican?Jon Bunker noted that he did not recall what went wrong with the Barbican, but that it might've had something to do with hiding the wires. I believe Mr. Alinger or the Rinzler book backs that up, and I think those images show that might've been the problem.
After what was likely some initial test shots and photos for lighting, the decision to cut the wires on the Barbican was made. Only those two photos I've found show a wired Barbican. So, it must have been a fairly early decision on set to remove the motorized effect, and I can totally see it being done because they couldn't hide the wires now.
Oddly, Luke’s motorized Graflex serves on day 3, acting as Vader’s stunt hilt...
However, the Barbican also makes an appearance on this day! It is visible in the film as well as on some of the BTS footage as seen below. It is identifiable due to the way Prowse holds it. So why what caused the need for the Graflex stunt to take its place in one scene or take? The Barbican was on set, was it suddenly unable to take a blade? I don’t know.
(teecrooz has a gif of this footage below)
On Lightsaber Construction
[WIP]
Regarding the Motorized Obi-Wan Sabers:
[WIP]
Regarding the Barbican:
(As the hilt is today)
The “Barbican” was initially planned to be Vader’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real MPP clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track (Plus a small 1.5” piece used to replicate the MPP bulb release button.), an open-hole end cap, and square aluminum shroud reminiscent of an MPP.
Although the prop has been refinished today after years of filming in RotJ and ESB, we can still gather some details about it. Based on the size of the switch hole, it is likely the Barbican utilized a toggle switch similar to the V2, as a lamp push button as seen on the motorized Graflex requires a larger hole to be drilled, as seen above.
Note that due to the switch location, the motor in the real Barbican would be seated remarkably high up. I believe this is likely why some issues were encountered. The heavier HMP/Antenna based blades probably dragged on the motor, the clashes likely loosened the core as well, assuming it was held with a set screw under the shroud. Note that the shroud was likely not secured as to why Prowse holds it in such weird ways to stop it from falling off. It’s likely this was intentionally designed to allow you to access the screws that would allow you to change blades and accounts for the images where the shroud is attached on reverse.
The reason it was ultimately ditched in favor of the Graflex stunt on the final day of dueling is somewhat a mystery because the Barbican was present on day 3 of filming. Perhaps by then the other Barbicans had completely failed, forcing production to utilize Luke’s stunt saber.
Also, in this image here, you can also make out what appears to be a jack-plug connector, as described by Bunker on his notes and diagrams. I personally have many questions regarding this image.
Regarding the Motorized Graflex:
The motorized Graflex was Luke Skywalker’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real graflex clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track, a “thin-knurl” Folmer Graflex button, a “beer tab,” a Graflex Glass eye, and an end cap seemingly scavenged from camera parts.
Later, this saber would go on to serve as Vader’s stunt saber on the final day of the duel with either a painted or taped off shroud – wires cut as well. It was then subsequently utilized for promotional photos in its post-dueling state.
It is again possible multiple of these were made. Note in ESB, there appears to be a stunt featuring a similar long lever as seen on the V2. Unfortunately, after filming ESB it appears this saber was walked off set and hasn’t surfaced since.
The wires utilized “power pole” connectors in white and red specifically. There appear to have been some difficulties getting the saber setup while filming the hut sequence.
On Blades
Recommended Reading:
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-anh-lightsaber-blade-reference-thread.301164/
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-ot-stunt-lightsaber-blades-research-thread.298206/
(This section includes many quotes taken from Mouse Vader's reference thread above, including quotes shared by Vadermania, scarf man)
The first blades...
The First Filming Blades:
The Duel Filming Blades:
==================
Addendum:
Shipping notes expanded based on documents for reference:
Addendum:
Shipping notes expanded based on documents for reference:
Plan as of Jan 16th
Feb 28 for Speeder (3 weeks before location shooting, 1 week before last truck to leave)
Feb 2 Shipment 1 leave expected
Plan as of Jan 23rd
March 22 Deadline
Feb 14 – Speeder body ready
(Idea of air freighter for speeder and late shipments entertained)
Jan 30 Load Shipment 1 (3, upped to 4 total trucks) <Construction Materials
Feb 2 Shipment 1 Departure
Shipment 1 contains Dinosaur
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Anticipated
Shipment 2 anticipated to have “props on board.” But construction gets priority if gear doesn’t fit on first shipment
Noted last viable date for departures by truck:
March 5 Load
March 8 Departure
Plan as of Feb 5th
Feb 5 Shipment 2 Load (3 trucks)
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Departure
March 16 - Air freighter settled on, a plan is requested for what to bring on plane and what to leave behind in Tunisia
“Both Speeders to go on freighter. Also 10 robots and other essentials such as laser swords may be fitted into personal charter.”
Plan as of Feb 10th
Feb 20 shipment, “One Subercube” (Construction, SP.FX. and Props anticipated)
3 Speeders
1 Life-Pod
2 Sections of “Christmas Tree”
2 [Bins?] of large fuelage
1 [Boner?] (SP.FX.)
Smalls & Bits from Props Dept.
March 5 shipment, “One Road Track”
Animals
Speeder Shells (3 or 4)
RIG (SP.FX.) For Suspending Speeder (5 ton)
SP.FX. “Prop” Box
SP.FX. Ancillary Equipment
SP.FX. Tools
SP.FX. Fog Machine
Plan as of Feb 16, (Loading Air freighter)
Feb 17, Customs
Feb 18, Flight
Speeder 1
All Robots (7?)
[____] of speeder shells
SP.FX. Smalls (Remote Control Units, etc.)
Plan as of Feb 13th
Feb 20 Shipment 3 Departure
March 5 Shipment 4 Departure
March 15 Air Freighter Flight Departure
March 20 Personnel Charter
Feb 28 for Speeder (3 weeks before location shooting, 1 week before last truck to leave)
Feb 2 Shipment 1 leave expected
Plan as of Jan 23rd
March 22 Deadline
Feb 14 – Speeder body ready
(Idea of air freighter for speeder and late shipments entertained)
Jan 30 Load Shipment 1 (3, upped to 4 total trucks) <Construction Materials
Feb 2 Shipment 1 Departure
Shipment 1 contains Dinosaur
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Anticipated
Shipment 2 anticipated to have “props on board.” But construction gets priority if gear doesn’t fit on first shipment
Noted last viable date for departures by truck:
March 5 Load
March 8 Departure
Plan as of Feb 5th
Feb 5 Shipment 2 Load (3 trucks)
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Departure
March 16 - Air freighter settled on, a plan is requested for what to bring on plane and what to leave behind in Tunisia
“Both Speeders to go on freighter. Also 10 robots and other essentials such as laser swords may be fitted into personal charter.”
Plan as of Feb 10th
Feb 20 shipment, “One Subercube” (Construction, SP.FX. and Props anticipated)
3 Speeders
1 Life-Pod
2 Sections of “Christmas Tree”
2 [Bins?] of large fuelage
1 [Boner?] (SP.FX.)
Smalls & Bits from Props Dept.
March 5 shipment, “One Road Track”
Animals
Speeder Shells (3 or 4)
RIG (SP.FX.) For Suspending Speeder (5 ton)
SP.FX. “Prop” Box
SP.FX. Ancillary Equipment
SP.FX. Tools
SP.FX. Fog Machine
Plan as of Feb 16, (Loading Air freighter)
Feb 17, Customs
Feb 18, Flight
Speeder 1
All Robots (7?)
[____] of speeder shells
SP.FX. Smalls (Remote Control Units, etc.)
Plan as of Feb 13th
Feb 20 Shipment 3 Departure
March 5 Shipment 4 Departure
March 15 Air Freighter Flight Departure
March 20 Personnel Charter
On Rotoscoping:
Interviews with Nelson Shin (Rotoscope artist on ANH)
Sound
Odd Stories/Quotes:
You can find many Roger Christian quotes in the google drive folder. Here are a few other odd stories that don't exactly make sense, as these two were involved in the US side of Special Effects at ILM.
It's interesting to note what Dykstra says, as the filtering of the light seems to refer to the trials on the 23rd.
==========================
I have some more stuff floating around my head regarding blades and the Obi's specifically but that is probably better served in their respective threads (and because I just reached the 50 file limit and can't add any more pics lol.)
There wasn't really a specific aim to this thread, just some loose points all around. I just wanted to lay everything out in a timeline and address a few things while I was at it. I hope this was informative and might help other discussions regarding specific aspects of these sabers at the very least. Perhaps this thread can serve as a place to discuss all those random small theories poking around in one's mind.
And special thanks to the people who I bothered in PMs discussing this stuff at length with haha.
edit: fixing some of the image that came out small for some reason. And added some more quick words in a few parts.
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