ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found (No PS Discussion, other than photos and finds)

kpax

Sr Member
KCarl's maner and comments are very confusing due to his very casual wording.

My take away is that they had 4 c96 guns that were "effed up for firing" meaning modified to fire blanks. I think this because it is obvious that if the ANH HERO was one of those four and it fired blanks this is what he meant. He had 4 cut barrel c96 Mausers that fired blanks.

1- NR - not HERO
2- R&H, SRoD, Sweeney - same uppers and likely same lowers
3 and 4 are unknown cut barrel Mausers

One could be the 1973 version from Le Magnifique.
c96 man from alcapulco 1973 kit.jpg


1973 man from alcapilcoC96.jpg



(NOTE)- The Protectors 1977 After ANH - 2 versions possible?? First no visible mount?(bottom) second - Right side mount. ( possible lower?) Bull barrels Could be lugs removable. Even tho after ANH, could be one of the 2 "cut" versions KCarl had?

EWzp4J1e_o.png


NOTE NO mount ?
the protectors.jpg
 

kpax

Sr Member
The actual nerve of these cheeky so-and-so's; literally hearting comments that are entirely, factually incorrect :mad:
I would venture that we here, in this thread know more than any "expert" about this props details.
There may be someone from the original art dept. that could shed some light on the subject but we have discovered all of the major details and parts. We know the actual c96 and SN#. We have casting images of the frame before the right side mount lugs were brazed on. The scope SN# and now great images of the scope and rings and what's left of the cradle. The rest of the mount's details being pieced together from good images from ST and Carson's 3d build. All the original plastic bits finally discovered by Carson and the proper orientations and placements. And thanks to Carson, members here have actual vintage OR newly injected parts from the original Tomtit mold.

Sadly... the mystery disk remains a mystery... but we have a pretty good idea of what happened and what made the disk. Wish we had some confirmation.

Can't fault others for believing what "renowned" experts tell them. If you don't know any better the story sounds reasonable. You know what they say about having a "little knowledge" ?

And people want to believe.

You don't know what you don't know.
 
Last edited:

deadbolt

Sr Member
The actual nerve of these cheeky so-and-so's; literally hearting comments that are entirely, factually incorrect :mad:

No intention of being mean an any way, honestly.. I see their post just as you do and am just as angry, but I banned all PS talk from this thread unless it's a discovery towards the original prop or proof of info towards it's history of it's very strong evolution throughout filming over the years.
..I honestly am not trying to be mean about the subject..you're a good guy, fellow helpful member of this forum and I don't intend sound as though I'm angry at all. But this topic has surely thrown this particular thread off balance too many times, and in too short of a period of time as well.. I don't want that to start again here in this thread.

Han Solo ANH Blaster on Pawn Stars Is the best place I think we can all speak our minds about the ridiculousness of the 'wannabe' "prop". ;)

I think a good amount of us all agree on the nonsense and the previous ever changing 'facts' about the (half-replica) they call a prop..sadly.
No offense or change in my view of you as a fellow member and online friend whatsoever. I just don't want it to be discussed here..


-Carson
 

deadbolt

Sr Member
This is the best frame I can find of the newly discovered SRD Mauser (thanks Shingouki28!). The lump appears to be possibly present, so possibly another shot of the ANH Hero's upper! :D


-Carson

View attachment 1606504

..though, I'm still questioning if they caught the 'real' Unabomber now...wrong jacket though. :p

I couldn't make it through a full watch. As mentioned by thd9791 , it's painful to watch even the trailer, let alone the full film even half way though. Was this Mauser only used (in various ways) in only 3 good films??..by that I mean SW =D


-Carson
 

kpax

Sr Member
..though, I'm still questioning if they caught the 'real' Unabomber now...wrong jacket though. :p

I couldn't make it through a full watch. As mentioned by thd9791 , it's painful to watch even the trailer, let alone the full film even half way though. Was this Mauser only used (in various ways) in only 3 good films??..by that I mean SW =D


-Carson
Fast forward is your friend!
 

deadbolt

Sr Member
KCarl's maner and comments are very confusing due to his very casual wording.

My take away is that they had 4 c96 guns that were "effed up for firing" meaning modified to fire blanks. I think this because it is obvious that if the ANH HERO was one of those four and it fired blanks this is what he meant. He had 4 cut barrel c96 Mausers that fired blanks.

1- NR - not HERO
2- R&H, SRoD, Sweeney - same uppers and likely same lowers
3 and 4 are unknown cut barrel Mausers

One could be the 1973 version from Le Magnifique.
View attachment 1607090

View attachment 1607091



(NOTE)- The Protectors 1977 After ANH - 2 versions possible?? First no visible mount?(bottom) second - Right side mount. ( possible lower?) Bull barrels Could be lugs removable. Even tho after ANH, could be one of the 2 "cut" versions KCarl had?

View attachment 1607092

NOTE NO mount ?
View attachment 1607093

When was the Le Magnifique Mauser noticed? I hadn't seen that one before. Definitely looks different than the others (to an extent, setup wise), the long addon barrel is totally different but the Mauser's Bull-Barrel seems to be very similar to the others though..?

It also looks to possibly have a single-point scope like used on a few SW props, such as the Rebel troop's blasters, Scout Trooper blasters etc..
Very interesting! A dumb question considering the similarities, but I wonder if we can prove Bapty made this one?

This is my first time seeing this particular prop. Very curious now..

Thanks, Pat!

Edit: No bull-barrel unfortunately, but I agree with Pat that this may be 'one' of the other Mausers Kcarl has been referring to. I can't remember what I worked on a year ago from this week, let alone recall something from as far back as '76-ish..I wasn't alive yet, haha. But yeah, certainly isn't one of the NR pistols sadly.. But still cool to see, Bapty also did the P38 for the Man From U.N.C.L.E in a similar manner. Bapty seems to have loved adding scopes and extended barrels to pistols..

1.png
2.png



-Carson
 
Last edited:

kpax

Sr Member
When was the Le Magnifique Mauser noticed? I hadn't seen that one before. Definitely looks different than the others (to an extent, setup wise), the long addon barrel is totally different but the Mauser's Bull-Barrel seems to be very similar to the others though..?

It also looks to possibly have a single-point scope like used on a few SW props, such as the Rebel troop's blasters, Scout Trooper blasters etc..
Very interesting! A dumb question considering the similarities, but I wonder if we can prove Bapty made this one?

This is my first time seeing this particular prop. Very curious now..

Thanks, Pat!


-Carson
I just stumbled across it. Never saw it posted before. 1973 so IF it was a Bapty gun it could have been one of the 4 cut Mausers.

Not sure of where the film was made. Can't be all bad. Has Jaquelyn Bisset. ; )
 

kpax

Sr Member
COPIED FROM PS THREAD

I think this weird blaster is important. I removed the PS talk.

It's not a casting. It's the real scope.
I think they re-blackened it which makes it so the scratches and finish don't align anymore.

RIA is basically putting everything on the 3 Mausers idea which Bapty has put forward. Was there ever a mention of this before this gun showed up? Supposedly a period photo confirms the serial number on this particular gun to be "one of the 3 used".
Bapty retains the only copy of the photo and RIA are not allowed to use it in the auction - supposedly due to Disney.
I'm really curious what is in this photo - just the gun? converted? someone from production holding it? No idea.
Thanks for the input Chris.!

Do you know it's the real HERO scope or just another HW scope? Looks like a casting in that image. Have you seen this weird blaster anywhere else?

Judging by the design of the blaster, FH and mount it must be post ANH. ESB or RotJ timeframe. That would mean the ANH blaster was in fact disassembled after ANH wrapped as Tony said. They used the scope for this "test" design" and maybe opted for a smaller scope. The scope and (mount) also shows up in the bunker we believe.

The most important scratches and gouges on the PS scope are still there thankfully. Guess it didn't rust out as bad as the mount. The RIA images are nice to see.



1660361797193.png
 

Vanitas

Sr Member
I still believe that if Tony and/or Carl wished to fabricate a convincing replica of Solo's Hero prop, then it would have been a simple matter of purchasing better replica furniture (like Chris' steel scope mount assembly) instead of making this weird mount, get a matching Mauser and re-stamping the serial numbers, and adding some of the unique features like Carson's lump, etc. The fact that none of this was done leaves me to feel that they were not genuinely trying to pass off a counterfeit, but perhaps I am simply being optimistic..

EDIT: Here is a strange image I ripped from the HTML code of Bapty's website. What on earth?


View attachment 1536723

This was when I found the image in question, although my memory is a bit fuzzy on how the website looked back then. I vaguely recall it to be side-scrolling type gallery of some sorts with a description underneath every image, but it was long ago enough that I don't want to claim that conclusively. But hopefully this at least shows how long this 'bizarro' Bapty blaster image has been floating around!
 

kpax

Sr Member
The Bapty blaster scope does not show the very clear bell gouges of the HERO. Could it be another HW scope or a casting? Lonepidgeon said he thinks it's the HERO.

Looks like a casting to me because the windage knob and base look like one piece? Lousy image but...

Wish there were more images.
 

deadbolt

Sr Member
Pertaining to the Bapty photo, it certainly looks different. No identifying markings linking to the Hero's Hensoldt. The tube looks fully re-machined/copied, note the lack of radius from the transition from the main tube to the rear-bell of the scope, it's a tad too sharp to be a real Hensoldt. The real ones were rolled/stretched to that shape, not fully machined. It also appears to possibly be aluminum too with no visible brass rings or lines on either end. As well as the very noticeable cast windage knob assy, being fully cast into a solid rather than many separate parts as per the real deal. The knurl even looks a bit odd, but the resolution is iffy on those kind of details.. I'd say at first, or even second glance it's not a real Hensoldt, or even cast from the Hero ANH's either.

Remember the mystery MG81 FH that popped up on the Jawa Promo pictures & the Holiday Special? Clearly similar to a MG FH, but just enough to make it look similar..but not so real at all.

2oasfo.jpg


There's too much mystery amongst these props to ascertain the true identity of some parts, all we can tell is what they're not, rather than what they are. :confused:


-Carson
 
Last edited:

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Thanks for pointing out the milling marks on the right side rear recesses of the merr sonn! They do match the final hero; that’s nuts
 

kpax

Sr Member
Not sure what happened to the post but I am reposting for clarity.
It's presumed to be at least one of the (two) factually known NR Masers, one of which possibly wasn't needed or used in NR which is the one that became the ANH Hero..and many other films/shows before it, haha. There's still no proven evidence that there were more than those two made with the same modifications. Although they claimed (3, or 4 now?) that were modified in the same manner, yet no proof of such claims. All of us here and the general public even have that we can factually state, is there were two Mausers proven to be made in that manner by Bapty, no photos or proof otherwise.

Until better, higher res images surface of the 'Bunker/Bizarro Blaster', we can't really know more than what we can see sadly. All we can see is that it's clearly a bull-barreled Mauser (only the Bapty NR/onward Mausers are currently known to have that), and the mount and HW scope was visibly present too, though reversed and mounted to an ROTJ style mount as noticed by @OdiWan72 I think?

The Mauser has obviously been molded at least twice, first known is the Merr Sonn with the NR lower, the other for the ESB/ROTJ stunt blasters with the Hero ANH upper and lower. No proof or evidence as of yet suggesting that the mount and/or scope were ever molded and cast and used at all.

But the length of the Bunker blaster's barrel suggests the likelier possibility that it's not a stunt casting being used and modified with that ridiculous barrel and such. The real Mausers had threads in the bull-barrel to accommodate for the extension. Though, all of the known stunt casts from that Hero ANH Mauser were molded with the FH on it. Thus making the bunker blaster less likely to be a casting, since removing the section where the FH is cast in would shorten the visible Bizarro blaster's bull-barrel substantially, and noticeably.
I have absolutely no clue as to why they made that crazy blaster that way, it removes full continuity completely from Han's blaster throughout the film.

Maybe the scene was intended to show a blaster stolen from an imperial officer or something? But who knows.
Interesting when the scope and mount come in to play, they've only been seen in two films so far, ST and SW (but, possibly/likely on the bunker blaster in ROTJ too).

We have no solid evidence (or any implication even) of any known castings from the full ANH Hero at all in the first film, none. Only the Merr Sonn with the different lower. But our unknowing doesn't mean they didn't exist, it's possible that we just simply haven't seen them or didn't make it into the film(s). But as far as screen-used goes, all of the current evidence and reference seems to show that the ANH Hero appears to be the same odd, unique, swapped lower, lumped, Pat's patched Mauser throughout the entirety of ANH. The same Mauser that all of us here have been studying with extreme passion over all of the...well, decades now..


-Carson
Click to expand...
I agree with most above but:

IMO the MerrSonn castings are casts of the ANH HERO upper AND lower as is the ESB Stunt.

I had done the comparisons a while back and there are many details and witness marks that show the same Upper and Lower.

THE GRIP WITNESS MARK COMPARISON IS NEW.

aster-right-side-proof-hero-merrsonn-copy-copy-jpg.jpg


blaster-left-side-hero-merrsonn-proof-copy-jpg.jpg


blaster-pre-hero-merrsonn-grip-match-2-jpg.jpg




I posted a full history I believe to be accurate based on the evidence a while back.

These are my assumptions:

Based on these images it seems the ANH Mauser was first given to Lucas with the LEFT side lug mounts and scope from possibly Sweeney or NR or other Lower. This is NOT the R&H LOWER.

Note there are NO Right side lug mounts. The art dept. made a mold of it which we see in the MerrSonn castings.

Logically, the MerrSonn casting was either molded from a Mauser with the 2813 upper and a lower with NO mounts at all OR it had LEFT side lug mounts when first shown to Lucas... which makes sense since it seems the rear lug on the castings were cut off. The front covered by the pulley.

I have always assumed that Lucas tested the blaster with the left side mount and scope and realized Han needed a right side holster so they gave it back to KCarl to change to a right side mount. We now know that KCarl easily brazed on and off and refinished these Mausers many times so no problem. Lucas likely explained the holster use to KCarl and he changed the scope and mount to the ST to be a little more compact.

KCarl gave it back to Lucas which is the PreProduction HERO image. The art Dept. made another mold of the HERO with RIGHT side lug mounts which eventually became the ESB Stunt blaster castings.

So, the MerrSonn castings are of the 2813 HERO entirely but with the original LEFT side mount lugs. IMO.
For me, there are just too many "actual" witness marks that match exactly the HERO preproduction image.

These images also prove the HERO lower can not be the H&R. Possibly be the NR Lower or Sweeney if it was different or another Lower entirely since KCarl added Lugs as needed.

Wow Pat, I wish you shared this earlier! Now I think the Merr Sonn actually does share the same lower as the Hero..

I wonder why they molded it twice? With the Merr Sonns, the FH was much further outward, vs. the ESB/ROTJ stunt being almost right-on to the Hero FH position)

Thank you for sharing this buddy, I hadn't even noticed those identifying marks!!
..though I wonder now how they removed the spacers so cleanly?

Also on the Merr Sonns, if that 'possible' antenna post wasn't in the way of the slight radius cut in the Hero's frame right where the top of the Mystery Disk is, that would absolutely prove it for sure.
Though, we can't factually claim it's a pushrod stem there, it might be just part of that possible Bic Pen tube-like thing in the center of the Merr's barrel greeblie. :p

Great stuff, man. I think I know now what my favorite feeling is, a 'New Realization'..it feels good..


-Carson
Click to expand...
I did share these thoughts months ago. I know you were out of the loop a while. I speculated an entire history a while back.


The FIRST (MerrSonn) mold with Left side lugs and FH and longer barrel may have been molded just to be a "different" blaster type for their arsenal.

After the right side mounts were brazed on they seem to have made a second mold maybe to have a record of the HERO in case. These are the ESB Stunts.

It seems KCarl brazed on and off lugs and "sleeve" bull barrels according to Tony, and refinished the frames. Not too difficult really. Heavy duty soldiering really. A little cleaning and bluing.
 

Alan Solo

New Member
Is the "Le Magnifique" gun known to be a Bapty Mauser? The link is less obvious with it not being a UK production.
I think it is safe to assume any c96 seen in a UK production post ANH, which has scope mounts on the right hand (from shooters pov) of receiver is THE/a ANH gun. An offset scope wouldn't be hung of that side of the pistol (other than for a left-handed user) unless it was for appearances only and the pistol had to fit in a holster. It just looks incredibly awkward (see photo above from the protectors(?) - the gentleman isn't sighting down the scope because it's in completely the wrong place).
I hypothesise that the resin merr sonns were cast from the NR lower, scope lugs intact. Lugs were then hacked off/greeblied over. Lugs were professionally removed from real Mauser which was then refinished. Attempt was made to mount the HR scope with a single forward dovetail (like the Oliver Reed pistol). This was then removed when it was realised the pistol couldn't be holstered with a scope on the left. Perhaps this was late in the day as they didn't re-blue it, but just tidied the area up (mystery disc).
The mysterious ESB style Bapty blaster is mega (I try to use that word once a day and it's getting late). The top seems to be from a c99 rather than c96, though the lower certain isn't - further proof they mixed and matched uppers and lowers.

When I finish my time machine, investigating this is shamefully high on my list of priorities!
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I’m going to move this here simply because posting elsewhere does it a disservice. The back inside notches (lens retainer) on the Hensoldt scope are larger than normal (as far as I’ve seen anyways) and unchanged in its placement in the past 40 plus years. Just an observation that pertains to the details on the original prop itself..
D5C76DF5-1E31-4007-A858-776DFB3AD472.png
14E40A17-FAEF-4B63-BA54-A07AD5D1D605.jpeg
 

kpax

Sr Member
Is the "Le Magnifique" gun known to be a Bapty Mauser? The link is less obvious with it not being a UK production.
I think it is safe to assume any c96 seen in a UK production post ANH, which has scope mounts on the right hand (from shooters pov) of receiver is THE/a ANH gun. An offset scope wouldn't be hung of that side of the pistol (other than for a left-handed user) unless it was for appearances only and the pistol had to fit in a holster. It just looks incredibly awkward (see photo above from the protectors(?) - the gentleman isn't sighting down the scope because it's in completely the wrong place).
I hypothesise that the resin merr sonns were cast from the NR lower, scope lugs intact. Lugs were then hacked off/greeblied over. Lugs were professionally removed from real Mauser which was then refinished. Attempt was made to mount the HR scope with a single forward dovetail (like the Oliver Reed pistol). This was then removed when it was realised the pistol couldn't be holstered with a scope on the left. Perhaps this was late in the day as they didn't re-blue it, but just tidied the area up (mystery disc).
The mysterious ESB style Bapty blaster is mega (I try to use that word once a day and it's getting late). The top seems to be from a c99 rather than c96, though the lower certain isn't - further proof they mixed and matched uppers and lowers.

When I finish my time machine, investigating this is shamefully high on my list of priorities!
Unknown who made the Le Magnifique gun. Didn't see UK production.? Just another c96 mod kit gun maybe

For your hypothesis, see my posting above yours. There is some interesting proof of lineage. I also posted a lengthy history hypothesis of my own a while back...
 

kpax

Sr Member
I’m going to move this here simply because posting elsewhere does it a disservice. The back inside notches (lens retainer) on the Hensoldt scope are larger than normal (as far as I’ve seen anyways) and unchanged in its placement in the past 40 plus years. Just an observation that pertains to the details on the original prop itself.. View attachment 1608717 View attachment 1608715
Ahh, not the threads, the screw notches!

Well, I'm not sure they are larger. Maybe slightly if Carl needed to clean out corrosion?

Wish there was a clearer image.

blaster scope notches.jpg




Have a look and let me know what you think.
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Sorry I’m not saying they are a different size from the original Hero to this new PS scope. I’m saying they are larger than what I’ve seen on any other Hensoldt. Obviously the nice thing about the PS pics is that we are able to see details no one has seen before. The screw notches on the lens retainer.. same one used a long time ago are simply bigger than on any other Hensoldt. ?

This hero blaster specifically (40 years ago to now) had larger notches than your average Hensoldt..
0FE05C7C-68C2-414D-87E7-658F8E7DC847.jpeg
 
Last edited:

kpax

Sr Member
Sorry I’m not saying they are a different size from the original Hero to this new PS scope. I’m saying they are larger than what I’ve seen on any other Hensoldt. Obviously the nice thing about the PS pics is that we are able to see details no one has seen before. The screw notches on the lens retainer.. same one used a long time ago are simply bigger than on any other Hensoldt. ?

This hero blaster specifically (40 years ago to now) had larger notches than your average Hensoldt.. View attachment 1608740
Oh. I see.

I don’t own a real HW scope.
Interesting observation.

Could be for the same reasons tho.
Different manufacturing plant or
A clean up of the grooves at some point.

Nice to know there are even more unique features on the prop. !
 

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.
Top