An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in general.

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Timey Wimey, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    I've found myself abusing this forum to express my opinions in somewhat out of context threads so I thought I could start this one. I mostly use the RPF for costuming ideas but I'm generally more interested in the writing and directing of movies and Television.
    My favourite flawed franchises (in my opinion).
    We can start of the topic with those.

    Back to the Future. All great films but I still consider the third film a disgrace. It repeatedly references the previous films but doesn't feel like it fits in with the themes of the rest of the Trilogy. Of course it was a western and it wasn't originally intended to be a trilogy but... I'd be willing to discuss my disdain with some comments.

    Arrested Development is my Second to Back to the Future in media preferences. In my opinion the first Three Seasons are literally perfection. I cannot judge a single aspect (even after trying to nitpick). It is the epitome of humour and re-watch-ability (not a word but one of the important factors for reviews). There are so many ways to defend Season 4 (including the fact that it is not a Season) but it lacked so much of what made the previous Seasons special. Even with the large scope of time shown, there is something jarring about seeing the modernised attempt at the series and if it had to be brought back, even if it were unoriginal, I think it'd be better if it exactly resembled the prior Seasons and would be refreshing in the trends of current TV shows.

    There is so much I could say about Marvel Studio's Marvel Cinematic Universe and I don't believe any of their works warrant a place as close to my heart as the above two but it is generally considered great. However out of the 12 released films (I won't discuss the TV Shows (yet)) I only like One from phase 1 (Iron Man) and 4 of the 6 from phase 2. Still 5/12 and I think most of the films that aren't special are good or okay but it feels odd how people keep expecting great things from any Marvel movie except Guardians of the Galaxy.

    This may offend the people that especially love the above but now I believe I'm entering especially Sacred territory just for the sake of getting some arguments going. I am still being truthful.

    Doctor Who was my favourite thing in general for the past 8 years (not too long from most perspectives but long enough for me) and not only did I start disliking the new things since 2012 but I started to become just embarrassed by almost every series. I am scared I'll ruin them for myself so I haven't seen them in a while but the only Doctor's I can tolerate are the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 7th (I haven't given 6 a shot and don't mind 1 and 4 too much). Every line of Dialogue just seems obnoxious &/or nonsensical most of the time, especially from most Doctors. It feels like the show has significantly more moments of bad than good but even me knowing that wasn't enough to stop me from watching it until this year.

    I of course know a lot of work, time and effort goes into all of these and I appreciate that I have all of these. I have been disrespectful but mean no disrespect to the makers (cast and crew). Part of my nature enjoys arguments and debates so I do a little stirring but would appreciate getting this thread kicking for discussing and overanalysing the beloved franchises of this generation. There are probably similar threads to this hence the specific title that should probably be generally followed. Some of my very favourite to loved things are Spike Jonze films, Firefly, and Rick and Morty. I don't dislike any aspects of them yet but I have developed observations that I could understand being disliked. I'm looking forward to discussions.
     
  2. harrisonp

    harrisonp Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    986
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    It's hard to follow well writte critiques like yours, especially when my familiarity is a bit limited, but I'm pretty much with you in regards to the MCU. After Ultron I almost had a literal moment of throwing my hands in the air and giving a big sigh. I love Guardians so much, probably because it's not mired in continuity, and CA:TWS is my favorite of the Earth based movies, but I'm a little weary from all the rest, and specifically the prescence of Iron Man everywhere.

    I do enjoy the entirety of the MCU in a "popcorn" sense but I do think the popularity can partially be attributed to general hype and how big the series has become. People see the films out of routine (at least I know I do)
     
  3. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in g...

    Winter Soldier is tying for my favorite next to the original Iron Man. I genuinely feel people are going to get tired of seeing these characters before the quality in films drop. I want to see more Cap, Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye but I feel Tony has been given a good enough send off. I was actually pretty sure Age of Ultron was going to be his last movie both going in and out of the theatre. One of the few great things about Age of Ultron was how Black Widow and Hawkey were the central characters. It feels Marvel is aware of this so they start introducing more characters like the twins and the Vision but those are very much characters I want to live without. I'm afraid of Doctor Strange because of Hypocracy. There are lots of news about The people making the film's leaving due to being overly controlled yet Marvel keeps talking about how these films are going to be the darkest yet or broaden and change the perspective of how everything works in the universe. I finally managed to like Daredevil but I still found it Jarring because if Marvel wanted me to be okay with unfamiliarity, they would have been more open with what they allow in creative control for other systems.
     
  4. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I'm very against the whole cinematic universe ideas going around now. I'm generally okay with excuses to make money but when The blindness wears off I'm just left with seeing excuses to make money and nothing more. Is Marvel setting a bad example?
     
  5. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I suppose when it comes to Super Hero films there are plenty of things to discuss. It is usually a Quest for Peace ridiculed the most but I dislike Super-Man 3 the most. I'm not a big DC fan but I appreciate the films and TV from the 60s and 70s. Batman and Robin is considered "the worst" Super-Hero film quite often (with exceptions). I enjoy the campy ridiculousness and instead of finding things cringe-worthy I just think it gets repetitive and boring. Spider-Man 3 you can see an underlay and bits of pieces of Greatness and the cringe-worthy parts of that film were intentional and fit the characters. Are there any non Super Hero franchises with a cannon with flaws to add to the list. I'm sure there are plenty but I tend to stick to what I know &/or what I obsess over.
     
  6. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,990
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    So you don't like the 10th Doctor, but you use one of his catch phrases for your name?
     
  7. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    He used to be my favorite. I can enjoy him a lot more than plenty of Doctors and only have reasons to dislike him when it comes to him being depressed about Rose half the time and having his last words being "I don't want to go".
    I dislike my choice in name more than I do the Tenth Doctor. I spent hours trying to choose the name when I signed up for the site and that was me giving up. I liked Doctor Who a lot more at the time of me signing up. I can Tolerate Ten and 11 and at one point 11 was my favorite too but they especially are guilty of the overconfidence and self loving that makes the show less interesting.
     
  8. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I blame flaws in the new Series more towards the writing than the acting capabilities... Then again...
     
  9. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I'm a hypocrite I compensate by claiming to despise what I used to love but now only find awkward to enjoy. That despising then becomes my reality.
    I was hoping for some user submissions and I suppose the remedy for the lacking is a definition of both the thread and the word: "franchise". I would like some input on what that can be.
    Does franchise include merchandise, novella or behind the scenes? If that is so we can share interesting Trivia found and discuss how the only thing worse than Age of Ultron are the toys of Age of Ultron. Can we include the works of fans?
    Can we also include the great works of lesser Franchises? What would that entail. Saga's in which there are too many products for it to mostly be good? The world of direct to DVD sequels?
     
  10. astroboy

    astroboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,275
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener


    It has so much to do with the writing.

    I kinda wish they took a page from SG-1 in their season construction. It is possible to do a neverending adventure series and still make sense
     
  11. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    At this point would it be just better to let everything just have an end? I would've never started the disliking of Doctor Who if it weren't for the show continuing beyond Season 6. I'm sure at the time I would have been outraged but having the ______ to end all of these in the mentality of decades prior, I'd give extreme kudos for. Imagine if instead of the unnecessary building the MCU, there were just a smaller three phase saga with the traditional development, crises and resolution but spanning across the already introduced characters and ending with closure and finally, no reason for after credit scene. Once again I'd probably be outraged but it'd be something I could respect with hindsight. Most of the beautiful films don't need a cannon of franchises and to end this cycle of only sequels, prequels, reboots, spinoffs and adaptions would a refreshment. Perhaps temporary but a refreshment at that. I feel I've been directing too much disrespect at Marvel. I just think they make a great example for my points.
     
  12. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    6,116
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    So let me get this straight. You don't like some stuff and you want to fight about it? :lol

    Nothing disrespectful about it at all. You're entitled to your opinion. So, here's mine in defense of some of these:

    Whereas I find the "Future Hill Valley" from BTTF 2 to be embarrassing. Such a blatant fast forward of the 80's that there's almost no realism to it. A couple of neat things (flying cars and hoverboards) distract from the really hokey environment, especially since it gets really great after they leave 2015. It's really sloppy writing too compared to the tight storyline in the other two films. BTTF 3, on the other hand, hits all the beats and is a tight, direct story. You may not LIKE that story but it's better written with a more consistent plot line.

    I *LOVE* Arrested Development, but it's hardly perfection. The plot lines in the original series become very predictable and frankly repetitive. When I do my re-watchings I also find that season 3 doesn't hold up in the same way as the first and second seasons. All that is to say that season 4 was a worthy follow up and did it's best to give things a fresh take. I think it did it successfully. Personally I really didn't like that Lindsay actually went through with cheating on Tobias, that felt like a really low point, but everything else felt like home again after so many years. Some of the revelations were fantastic, especially the stuff with Gob, and they were done in a new way. I do still prefer the original series but if you allow yourself to get over the slightly different presentation season 4 is still fun.

    No argument here, lol. I can appreciate the production value of the Marvel films but the only one I've seen in theatres was the first Avengers. Even then, I thought it was "meh". Superheroes just aren't my thing.

    Every Doctor Who fan has a different ranking of the actors who portray the Doctor. My favourite is Patrick Troughton (2) and my least favourite is Jon Pertwee (3). All I'll say is that if you're not embarrassed by the production value of McCoy's run I don't see how you can be embarrassed by 99% of what's in the new series. :lol

    Since Moffat took over the show the writing has been very inconsistent and pretty out there some times. He's a fantastic writer but like many artists I think he needs someone above him to reign him in from time to time. I get tired of each season trying to be bigger than the rest, or each companion having to be the centre of the universe. However while the writing has been iffy as of late the quality of the actors that play the doctor has never been higher. When written properly they command the screen with all the authority of a 1,000 year old Time Lord and I live for those moments.



    In conclusion, life's too short to get worked up about TV and movies you don't like. If you don't like them that's fine, just don't watch them. No need to dwell on it. Otherwise try and accept them for what they are despite their flaws. For some things as well there's just fatigue of a franchise, especially one with as much content as Doctor Who or Marvel Universe. Take a break from them and then come back, you might find your criticisms were too harsh.

    You're an articulate guy with well thought out opinions on all these topics and I respect that. But if there's one thing I'm finally realizing as I get older it's that it just isn't worth it to fight over stuff that doesn't matter.
     
    Timey Wimey likes this.
  13. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I've found myself generally getting meaner with the things I like and more lenient with what I dislike. I am obsessive and it could be a waste of time, I don't want to fight but I really want to get my opinions out there in a way to prove to myself I could succeed in these industries. I like using these comments as a way to gain clarity of my own clouded opinions.

    Back to the Future Part III is in many ways Superior to Part II. It has very meticulously thought out and great dialogue, a confident theme, memorability and a riveting plot. It just doesn't feel like a Back to the Future film to me for very minor reasons and though I don't at all dislike it I do not take it seriously. And as you can see I take that very seriously. It is full of self Parody, the Delorean physics are different and the only part I actually dislike is the ending, which in edition to making me feel bad made no sense.

    Arrested Development I need to be Perfect. It is what I go to when I feel depressed and I have every episode from the first Three Seasons on my phone that I have and do watch ritually. The reason I dislike Season 4 is that it is discomforting for me to see something so different and... original. I just can't memorise every aspect of it and find solace in that for Season 4.

    For Doctor Who I was actually being nicer than I feel because I just think I've spent too much time on it to just dislike all of a sudden. I really only like Patrick Troughton right now but have always loved most Doctor's but just had an order for them. I've based most of my criticism's of the show on how the New Doctor's act like the exact opposite of Troughton. They feel immodest. It is odd because the only reason I claim to dislike it so much is also because of how much time I've spent on it.

    I have been too harsh and I thank you for your kind words. I probably will regain joy from these products if I stop excessively consuming them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  14. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I forgot to mention how I hate parts of Back to the Future Part II, one of which travels to part III. The future McFly Family is ridiculous and makes Marty look narcissistic and the chicken character plot is the only thing that could be as bad as the Time Train, the real 2 disgraces to back to the Future... Not the movies as a whole.
     
  15. astroboy

    astroboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,275
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    To me, back to the future is very much like the Indiana Jones trilogy.

    The first one is * perfect.
    The second one is darker, uneven, annoying and unsettling.

    And the third one is fan service. Made to be fun to offset the second one

    Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Timey Wimey

    Timey Wimey Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    361
    Re: An excuse to disrespect the lesser works of great franchises (or reviews in gener

    I really think some films can be fixed just by adding, removing, replacing or reshuffling some scenes. I've tried it with Back to the Future and Marvel
    Movies and it seems to be better in some respects, besides the poor cuts and inconsistencies due to lack of original media. You're very right about the first and last film of the Back to the Future Trilogy but part of me just really wants to appreciate the love able parts of part II.
    If the topic is Back to the Future; does anyone hate the Telltale game as much as I do. It's fun as a game but it undermines and demeans the franchise incredibly.
     

Share This Page