Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[Jintosh]

Interesting. So far as we know, the auction piece has not been screen-matched to any TOS prop.

Production made is different than screen used. If the expert confirms production made only, then selling a confirmed production made piece as screen used would be fraudulent behavior on the auction's part.

Using screen used photos to represent production made would also be unacceptable.

I see all kinds of problems with the auction house in this matter.

The only way for the auction house to correct their error is for them to state that the EXPERT **ONLY** confirms production made, but NOT screen used. Production made literally has less value to many collectors than screen used.

 

[Gregatron]

It’s a tricky situation, that’s for sure. No concrete providence, so far as we know. No screencap matches that we know of. No direct evidence that it was production-made, aside from its obvious resemblance to the Jein hero (both inside and out) and Jein’s direct study of it.

Not exactly easy things to prove, obviously. How do you prove that it’s production-made with (ostensibly) just the stories of two different people who independently owned the separate P1/P2 units and then combined them into one supposedly long-lost P2 hero?

And how do you prove it’s screenused if you can’t match it to any screencaps?

 

[Captain Dunsel]

They can swab the piece for DNA from either Wah Chang, Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, etc

However, I don’t think any of that type of scrutiny should be required. If they merely require that the seller “pinky swear” that the provenance and the piece are legitimate, then that’s good enough for me. The “pinky swear” never fails.

Now, allow me qualify my comments by restating my credentials, as required, and reminding you all of my background. As you all know, I was the first to have completed a build of authentic replica “Ewok Scat” that was built entirely from scratch and included all the aggregate twigs, leaves, berries, and other organic material that are required for an accurate build. This project was the product of the sweat of my brow, my love of the subject, and dogged adherence to accuracy.

 

[Win7ermute]

They can swab the piece for DNA from either Wah Chang, Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, etc

However, I don’t think any of that type of scrutiny should be required. If they merely require that the seller “pinky swear” that the provenance and the piece are legitimate, then that’s good enough for me. The “pinky swear” never fails.

Now, allow me qualify my comments by restating my credentials, as required, and reminding you all of my background. As you all know, I was the first to have completed a build of authentic “Ewok Scat” that was built entirely from scratch and included all the aggregate twigs, leaves, berries, and other organic material that are required for an accurate build. This project was the product of the sweat of my brow, my love of the subject, and dogged adherence to accuracy.

And if I were to, say, question the provenance of your Ewok Scat, what sort of credentials do I need to present?

 

[USS Endeav]

And if I were to, say, question the provenance of your Ewok Scat, what sort of credentials do I need to present?

Uh, real Ewok scat, like, what else?

 

[Gregatron]

I’m surprised there aren’t little gold/green/blue/red threads stuck in the Velcro, for that extra touch of obviously non-fake authenticity. You know, like so many other non-fake, oh-so-genuine props sold over the years.

 

[Jintosh]

And if I were to, say, question the provenance of your Ewok Scat, what sort of credentials do I need to present?

A sworn statement from an Ewok as an expert that it's fake, of course !

 

[alensatemybuick]

This thread reminds me a bit of the ones (here and elsewhere) many years back in which the authenticity of the TOS bridge chair was questioned; I saw that as late as 10 years after it sold to Paul Allen, some were still questioning it (maybe some still do). That chair had been modified; specifically the plexiglass plate / buttons / domes on the right side had been replaced with a narrow row of Heatherington switches, possibly ones from a bridge station (perhaps Spock's). It had also been repainted somewhat inaccurately. The genuine right-side switches and buttons later turned up elsewhere, and those were authenticated by a very credible source. The explanation I tend to believe is that the chair was broken up, recovered from the trashheap (minus the right side controls), and later repaired as best was possible.

I have no dog in this fight, don't have any specific knowledge of the phaser props, and am not in a position to even bid on it. Not saying I 100% believe it is a real cobbled-together (from a real P1 and a real P2 pistol body) screen-used phaser, but it occurs to me that some inaccurate details could mean, as was the case with the bridge chair, that repairs were made / some parts were replaced at some point in the last 50+ years. Absent some undeniable proof that it's a fake, this thread is likely to continue to largely be a Professor Gumby exercise ("Well, I think..."). Enjoy!

 

[Gregatron]

This thread reminds me a bit of the ones (here and elsewhere) many years back in which the authenticity of the TOS bridge chair was questioned; I saw that as late as 10 years after it sold to Paul Allen, some were still questioning it (maybe some still do). That chair had been modified; specifically the plexiglass plate / buttons / domes on the right side had been replaced with a narrow row of Heatherington switches, possibly ones from a bridge station (perhaps Spock's). It had also been repainted somewhat inaccurately. The genuine right-side switches and buttons later turned up elsewhere, and those were authenticated by a very credible source. The explanation I tend to believe is that the chair was broken up, recovered from the trashheap (minus the right side controls), and later repaired as best was possible.

I have no dog in this fight, don't have any specific knowledge of the phaser props, and am not in a position to even bid on it. Not saying I 100% believe it is a real cobbled-together (from a real P1 and a real P2 pistol body) screen-used phaser, but it occurs to me that some inaccurate details could mean, as was the case with the bridge chair, that repairs were made / some parts were replaced at some point in the last 50+ years. Absent some undeniable proof that it's a fake, this thread is likely to continue to largely be a Professor Gumby exercise ("Well, I think..."). Enjoy!

View attachment 1469788

Ah, so all the discrepancies in these TOS props coming out of the woodwork 50-plus years later are due to "repairs". Gotcha.


Snark aside, I haven't studied the Allen chair in detail, but it is POSSIBLE that repairs would account for the anomalies.

But not every single time.

 

[USS Endeav]

↑ Plus, there is that pesky list showing what the studio ordered. When Phasers become like the Fast and The Furious movie franchise (with movie number 5000 in theatres now) it starts to become satirical.

 

[Gregatron]

↑ Plus, there is that pesky list showing what the studio ordered. When Phasers become like the Fast and The Furious movie franchise (with movie number 5000 in theatres now) it stars to become satirical.

...or like the STAR TREK (and numerous other) franchise, which has become a grotesque mockery of itself.

(rimshot)

 

[feek61]

I exchanged emails with HA and forwarded them copies of the studio inventory showing proof that only 4 hero phasers were made along with a time-line of when the heros were used (prior to being replaced by the midgrades in the first season). I also noted that all 4 were unique in some aspect and each identified on screen including the GJ; the only one that has velcro on the PI (without the aluminum side rail). I also noted the phaser they are auctioning did not match any of the 4 known and identified heros. I also forwarded them photos of fakes that look just like the real thing and told them the GJ P2 had been so studied with information available on it that of course the forgery matches his. Basically told them that the phaser they were auctioning was a forgery. They have plenty of reason to doubt this piece; if they move forward without doing any due diligence, it is on HA because I don't see how they can say they didn't have reason to doubt the authenticity of the piece.

 

[Trekfan]

Good for you feek!

 

[USS Endeav]

I exchanged emails with HA and forwarded them copies of the studio inventory showing proof that only 4 hero phasers were made along with a time-line of when the heros were used (prior to being replaced by the midgrades in the first season). I also noted that all 4 were unique in some aspect and each identified on screen including the GJ; the only one that has velcro on the PI (without the aluminum side rail). I also noted the phaser they are auctioning did not match any of the 4 known and identified heros. I also forwarded them photos of fakes that look just like the real thing and told them the GJ P2 had been so studied with information available on it that of course the forgery matches his. Basically told them that the phaser they were auctioning was a forgery. They have plenty of reason to doubt this piece; if they move forward without doing any do-diligence, it is on HA because I don't see how they can say they didn't have reason to doubt the authenticity of the piece.

I had emailed them the same last week. The reply was that unless I can provide the name of an industry accepted expert to offer a differing opinion, they were staying with the opinion of GJ.

On a side note, was there ever a screen used Phaser P2 with the three side ribbing details colored silver?

 

[dbuck]

HA isn’t going to pull it. They’ve got their expert opinion (GJ, did you really and truly authenticate this or is it more like a maaaaaybe) and the sale will happen. IF someone throws a fit in the future they will need a countering expert opinion or other proof and worst case scenario for HA they refund the sale and take the phaser back.

However, if anybody considering the purchase hopefully does some recon and finds this discussion and the others as well. At this point if I was stinking rich and the money was like you or me buying a cheeseburger (my wife has clients that have several hundred million dollars in fine art) I still wouldn’t buy it, but that’s me. Someone else might throw a couple of hundred thou at it and make a nice shadow box for it in their home museum and their rich buddies will never know the difference.

 

[Gregatron]

I exchanged emails with HA and forwarded them copies of the studio inventory showing proof that only 4 hero phasers were made along with a time-line of when the heros were used (prior to being replaced by the midgrades in the first season). I also noted that all 4 were unique in some aspect and each identified on screen including the GJ; the only one that has velcro on the PI (without the aluminum side rail). I also noted the phaser they are auctioning did not match any of the 4 known and identified heros. I also forwarded them photos of fakes that look just like the real thing and told them the GJ P2 had been so studied with information available on it that of course the forgery matches his. Basically told them that the phaser they were auctioning was a forgery. They have plenty of reason to doubt this piece; if they move forward without doing any do-diligence, it is on HA because I don't see how they can say they didn't have reason to doubt the authenticity of the piece.

(slow clap)

 

[Jintosh]

I had emailed them the same last week. The reply was that unless I can provide the name of an industry accepted expert to offer a differing opinion, they were staying with the opinion of GJ.

I think they have no idea what their expert told them. I played Devil's advocate a few posts back, and even from the EXPERT's point of view, he can only say production made. But the auction shows screen shots of actors holding phasers. The phasers in these ST TOS photos are obviously screen used.

So the auction is using photos of screen used phasers to represent an auction, that at best, can only be verified as production made.

 

[USS Endeav]

I think they have no idea what their expert told them. I played Devil's advocate a few posts back, and even from the EXPERT's point of view, he can only say production made. But the auction shows screen shots of actors holding phasers. The phasers in these ST TOS photos are obviously screen used.

So the auction is using photos of screen used phasers to represent an auction, that at best, can only be verified as production made.

I agree, I said as much to them last week. They are undeterred in the belief it is screen used and genuine or are resting solely and squarely on the assurance by GJ that anything stated to the contrary by anyone via email is being ignored.

 

[USS Endeav]

Bidding has opened. As of now, I'm not seeing any activity.

 

[Gregatron]

Bidding has opened. As of now, I'm not seeing any activity.

As I said awhile back, there are a lot of people—both fans and industry professionals—who keep an eye on these forums. Surely, only a dilettante with money to burn would blindly fork out cash for an item like this without doing at least some cursory research.