If it walks like a fake and talks like a fake, well…the whole thing is probably fake.
I find it improbable that two people (if one goes by the story presented) mated together a fake P1 with a real P2, even if innocently and/or by accident.
Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)
- Thread starter Anakin Starkiller
- Start date
If it walks like a fake and talks like a fake, well…the whole thing is probably fake.
I find it improbable that two people (if one goes by the story presented) mated together a fake P1 with a real P2, even if innocently and/or by accident.
Trekfan
Active Member
Where does the notion that the phasers are supposed to be nearly identical come from? Maybe this is an incorrect assumption. Again, these were not made by Wah Chang, but probably by a group of people, possibly at Desilu, possibly somewhere else. We just...don't...know!
So after reading all 27 pages (so far) I remembered that I saw a "Screen Used Hero Phaser" in the dealer's room at the Las Vegas ST Convention in August of 2019. I shot a few images but didn't get to go behind the table to get both sides. Is this the GJ Phaser, a midgrade, or what? Inquiring minds want to know.
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asalaw
Sr Member
That's a midgrade, possibly genuine, but I don't know the midgrades as well as the heroes.
We don't know. Got it.
Sorry about that for passing incorrect information.
If it doesn't match the screen, and doesn't have to match the other phaser.....then what is it supposed to match ? It could even be made by anybody that worked closely with the show and understood how it was made. So, maybe even an intentional replica in the 60's. With the origin now lost.
I don't see how this is verifiable by anybody, even an expert. You could verify that this is vintage 60's material and workmanship, but how can anyone verify it's real if there is literally no way to match it to a specific person ? That's NOT like my example earlier of someone producing an unknown Picasso. A Picasso could be reasonably verified by matching it to a specific person and their style.
If the only thing that can be verified is the STORY, then forget the phaser, and people should verify the story.
WinstonWolf359
Sr Member
The appearance seen on screen of both the hero phasers and the midgrade phasers that came later all share enough small details that it seems exceedingly likely the phasers were all pulled from the same mold, or molds made from the same master. The look of every phaser prop in screen caps has been extremely consistent in the basic body shape and contour.
That's a midgrade style for sure. Authentic? That's less clear. The aluminum nozzle looks like a modern replica. The paintjob and general appearance of the weathering looks artificial to me. In fact it reminds me a lot of this new hero we're discussing; to my eye I see a case study in weathering techniques more than I see natural 50 year wear. I would be happy to be wrong, but there's just...something that doesn't quite feel right about the appearance.
Starbase101
Sr Member
The notion that phasers are supposed to be identical comes from the Starfleet Quartermaster. The in-universe phasers would have been manufactured in a facility where each one indeed would be identical. True, variances exist with the studio props because they were each hand-made, but the "real" in-universe Starfleet phasers would have been as identical as anything professionally mass-manufactured today.
WinstonWolf359
Sr Member
It's not just you. The P-I brass on the GJ especially seems a very clean and very straightforward flat cut. The auction piece has what looks like a subtle bevel or radius or something. The radius/bevel makes it a little harder to be sure but the wall thickness seems thicker on the auction phaser than the GJ. It also looks more dry-brushed or washed than a natural patina.
The look of all of the metal on this piece bothers me. Some pieces look like they fell into a garbage disposal, like the front nozzle, while some parts like the rear fins and the underside of the top plate on the forehead tower are still mirror-glossy.
…ammonia fumes/brass black for the brass parts, lots of globbed-on paint, yellowed epoxy, scuffing/chipping…
To me, the rear dial on the P2 is too low and has no numbers on it, and the lack of a rail on the P1 tells me that it isn't a real hero. Thanks for the confirmation.
robn1
Master Member
Those details are correct for a midgrade.
WinstonWolf359
Sr Member
Yes, all of that! I also see what looks like adding dirt to the paint to get a rougher texture, and the odd amount of very poorly applied putty too.
There's the look of work done in a hurry, there's the look of work done carelessly, there is the look of aging and wear and tear, and then there is the look of "don't know when to stop." That's what I see here. Someone who knows a lot of ways to make something look older and banged up, and yet doesn't know when enough is enough. I think anyone that has ever done a weathered build of anything knows that can be a deep rabbit hole if you aren't careful.
The props had a rough and tumble existence during the run of the show, to be sure, but you'd think whoever "fished these things out of the trash" would have taken care of them since. That's why when I see "authentic" props that look like they spent the last 50 years in a box of rocks kept in the back of a pick up truck yet aren't broken warning bells go off.
Consider both the excessive aging/sloppiness of the piece, as well as the fact that it directly copies features which were apparently unique to the Jein hero (Velcro, no P1 gem, power meter numbers), and a story begins to tell itself: Someone copied the Jein (using the photos and autopsy videos widely available) and simulated aging and “repairs”/“repainting” in order to pass it off an an original and make a buck.
Someone who’s actually deeply into the game (as many of us here are) would at least have tried to copy the known traits of one of the other screencap-studied heroes (TMOST/Lenore/Nona). Personally, if I were to think about committing such a fraud, I’d be sure pick the Lenore to copy, since its details are not well-known, and reference is scarce. It also has a few unique tells, like the P2 body screws. The TMOST would be a lot harder to convincingly fake, because we have reasonably-clear photos (including P1 internals) and HD screencaps to study.
But, no, this piece is a pretty direct copy of the Jein, and no other.
As I have said, the heroes were rarely used after that first season, and then only for static close-up shots. There wasn’t a lot of risk of damage, unless someone carelessly dropped them. Sure, the Jein is beat up and clearly repainted, but I can’t imagine all of the heroes looking like they were repainted by Homer Simpson’s makeup shotgun. Screencaps show that at least one (“The Cloud Minders” hero) looked quite good near the end of the show’s run. Smooth paint, no visible damage.
Also note that all of the original midgrades to be discovered thus far still appear to have their original (albeit battered) paintjobs, and they were the workhorse phaser props for most of the show’s run, not the heroes. Yes, the Jein appears to have been repainted, but that was also the one hero most likely to be damaged, since it was the one with the Velcro, and therefore had a higher likelihood of accidentally dropping to the floor when knocked off of an actor’s costume.
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As do I.
USS Endeav
Sr Member
But isn't there speculation about those as well? whether or not they are in fact genuine? I may be the outlier here but I think the script they gave her to read from sounds as plausible as my best friends cousins next-door roommate giving me his screen used communicator and geo tricorder with the M'Benga scanner.
I just can't imagine that Nichelle Nichols would ever have cared for nor saw value in a symbol of a weapon that someone would gift her with not one, but two. It isn't as though her character ever really used those props.
What is truly unsettling is how she is being used to further someone else's (in my opinion), fraudulent agenda.
I just can't imagine that Nichelle Nichols would ever have cared for nor saw value in a symbol of a weapon that someone would gift her with not one, but two. It isn't as though her character ever really used those props.
What is truly unsettling is how she is being used to further someone else's (in my opinion), fraudulent agenda.
Wouldn’t be the first time. Remember that fundraiser to build a replica of the 8-foot TMP Enterprise model? They used her for that, too.
