Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[TOS Phaser]

"The phasers would have all been built during series preproduction." - - Asalaw

Asalaw - your statement above and Feek61's "inventory list" and his associated statements in this thread imply all 4 Hero P2s were made, by the Desilu Prop Department (DPD) after the second pilot.

I thought the DPD made props prior to each episode, after Fred reviewed the episode script - with money allocated from the episode budget?
Thus for some reason (I will have to go back through all of my notes over the years) - I thought the first two Hero P2s were made for episode 5, "The Enemy Within" (which was broadcast after episode 6, "The Man Trap".)

And along the same lines - the next two Hero P2s were built by the DPD for the episode they first appeared in.

So then if the Charlie X P2 is the GJ - then when was it first used and when was the forehead broken?
I thought the Charlie X P2 was the P2 that Sulu used on the planet to heat the rocks in episode 5, "The Enemy Within"? And that the 'Sulu' P2 was badly damaged during the filming of episode 5, "The Enemy Within". Which is why it was not seen again until Episode 8, "Charlie X".

 

[TOS Phaser]

Let me state now - I am sincerely "not trying to stir the pot" - I just want to make certain I have the facts of the 4 Hero P2s straight.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it.

 

[robn1]

I always thought the crack in your picture occurred after GJ got it. I seem to remember John Long mentioning that when GJ was showing it to someone they dropped it. Was it there when the autopsy video was shot?

In the Charlie pic the upper piece of the forehead shell is missing, you can see the red background color showing through the site window. Also the break line matches the angle of the break on Greg's. And yes the break was there in the autopsy vid.

 

[TOS Phaser]

"I always thought the crack in your picture occurred after GJ got it. I seem to remember John Long mentioning that when GJ was showing it to someone they dropped it." - - AKJ001

AKJ001 - yes that was what I recall reading on ASAP - that when GJ let John and his measurement partner hold his original P2 in the parking lot of some convention - that John dropped the P2 and cracked the forehead.

 

[TOS Phaser]

In the Charlie pic the upper piece of the forehead shell is missing, you can see the red background color showing through the site window. Also the break line matches the angle of the break on Greg's. And yes the break was there in the autopsy vid.
View attachment 1599723

View attachment 1599724

Thanks for the great close up of the GJ.

I can see your point - if the left side forehead piece was lost when this P2 was damaged - the P1 would account for one line (in the back of the forehead sight window) and the sight window glass would account for the front of the forehead.

I believe it was this "Charlie X" close up photo that led most to think the sight window glass had been moved out in front?

I swear the right side of the forehead leading edge (in the photo you posted) looks like the sight window glass and the forehead clip has been reduce to a "lock plate".

 

[robn1]

"The phasers would have all been built during series preproduction." - - Asalaw

Asalaw - your statement above and Feek61's "inventory list" and his associated statements in this thread imply all 4 Hero P2s were made, by the Desilu Prop Department (DPD) after the second pilot.

I thought the DPD made props prior to each episode, after Fred reviewed the episode script - with money allocated from the episode budget?
Thus for some reason (I will have to go back through all of my notes over the years) - I thought the first two Hero P2s were made for episode 5, "The Enemy Within" (which was broadcast after episode 6, "The Man Trap".)

There's no way to know for sure what the chain of events was. But we never see more than 2 hero B&Ws on screen at any time, so it's possible only 2 were built at first and the other 2 built at a later date. I've assumed Greg's was one of the first, if not the first, considering it's roughness.

The inventory memo is dated 7-14-66 and includes 4 heroes as well as rubber stunts and "plastic" dummies (craps). So this was before the midgrades were made.

 

[TOS Phaser]

So obviously then - the "Charlie X" P2 was repaired before episode 17, "Shore Leave" when it reappeared in the Wah Chang colors.

 

[TOS Phaser]

There's no way to know for sure what the chain of events was. But we never see more than 2 hero B&Ws on screen at any time, so it's possible only 2 were built at first and the other 2 built at a later date. I've assumed Greg's was one of the first, if not the first, considering it's roughness.

The inventory memo is dated 7-14-66 and includes 4 heroes as well as rubber stunts and "plastic" dummies (craps). So this was before the midgrades were made.

Yes I have always agreed the Heros were made before the Midgrades.

So based on what you have shared and what I have always thought: did the GJ first appear in episode 5, "The Enemy Within" and was Sulu the first to be filmed holding it?

Or has the GJ been identified in another episode?

 

[robn1]

Yes I have always agreed the Heros were made before the Midgrades.

So base on what you have shared and what I have always thought: did the GJ first appear in episode 5, "The Enemy Within" and was Sulu the first to be filmed holding it?

That would seem so, best as we can tell.

And the broken forehead piece wasn't lost, just not in place in the Charlie shot. The piece still exists today, it's held in place only by the top metal piece.

 

[TOS Phaser]

I must have missed a few classes (and/or) posts in the phaser forum on the TPZ. (I was not aware of Hero.com or TOSGraphics.) And unfortunately I missed the P2 Forgery thread (!) when I joined this year. I just read through the forgery thread yesterday and my head is spinning! So please bare with me and let me state what I know and then ask my questions - thanks in advance.

It was my understanding that 4 working hero aka "practical" P2s were built during/for Season 1 episodes by the Desilu Prop Department.

However I thought only the first 3 were B&Ws - the first two made for episode 5 "The Enemy Within" and the third for episode 6 "The Man Trap".

And the fourth working Hero (the GJ) was made for episode 17, "Shore Leave". Which if I am understanding the timeline correctly - would have been after Wah Chang "refurbished" the first three B&W Hero Phasers.

I have carefully studied episode 5, "The Enemy Within" and episode 6, "The Man Trap". I see 3 different B&W Hero P2s in these two episodes.

Here are my statements (of my understanding) for this post:

(I) The P2 Sulu holds, changes the P1 in the P2 and then fires on the planet's surface in episode 5, "The Enemy Within" was a working P2 with a working P1.
(a) The P1 on the P2 that Sulu used had Velcro on the left side.
(b) This P1 and P2 does not look like the GJ P2 to me.
(c) I do not see the P2 that Sulu used in episode 5 again until episode 8, "Charlie X".
(d) This P2 was the "Red Alert" P2 in episode 13, "Conscience Of The King" after wah Chang
(e) I never see this P2 again.

(II) The P2 that Spock carries and first reveals the rising sight on the P1, on the first combat scene on the planet's surface in episode 6, "The Man Trap", is the same P2 that Kirk later carries into Dr. McCoy's cabin to kill the salt monster. And this famous close up of the P2 that Spock first carries is also used in episode 5, "The Enemy Within" (The good Kirk is wearing the first pattern wrap around captain's leisure shirt without braid on the sleeves when he confronts his evil twin in engineering. - - which I took to mean episode 5 used this first P2 close up scene from episode 6.) This P2 (that Spock first carries and uses) is a working P2 with a working P1 - - you can see the P1 grain of wheat bulb is lit and the sight is up when Kirk walks in and the P2 emitter lights before the animated beam appears when Dr. McCoy fires the P2 at the monster.
(a) The P1 on the P2 that Spock carries on the planet surface has Velcro on the left side. Spock pulled this P2 off his gold pistol belt and you can hear the Velcro break sound when he first sees the body of the dead crewman?
(b) This is the same P2 that Spock wore and used in episode 5, "The Enemy Within".
(c) This P2 has a conical emitter.
(d) This P2 became the "Court" P2 - that Finney jabs in Kirk's back in engineering - after Wah Chang.

(III) The P2 that Kirk carries on the planet surface in episode 6, "The Man Trap" has the cylindrical emitter - - you can clearly see the shadow on the nozzle is not conical when his P2 and Spock's P2 are side by side - front views in the same scene.
(a) Kirk's P2 is a working P2 - - you can clearly see the emitter lamp light before the animated beam appears when he shoots Dr. Crater.
(b) The P1 on Kirk's P2 is a working P1 - - you can see the sight is up and the grain of wheat bulb is lit.
(c) The P1 on Kirk's P2 has Velcro on the left side. - - you can see the actor keeps his hand on his P2 when he runs and he pull it off his gold pistol belt several
times in this episode.
(d) This P2 is the same P2 that Kirk used in episode 5, "The Enemy Within" in engineering.
(e) This P2 became the P2 that Kirk is holding when Finney jabs him in the back with the "Court" P2 in episode 15, "Court Martial".

(IV) Herb solo referred to "non-working practical phasers"... (Note: I am trying to track down the source of this statement - and I may be mixing props.)

(V) Episode 10, "What Are Little Girls Made Of" was the last episode to film B&W P2s and P1s.

(VI) The Wah Chang refurbished P2s and P1s were first filmed in episode 11, "Dagger Of The Mind".

(VII) The "inventory list" reflects that each hero P2 had a hero P1 - which implies there were only 4 hero P1s made. At least one of the B&W Hero P1s is not identified as a stand alone hero P1.

And here are my questions for this post:

1. If my observations of episodes: 5 and 6 are correct and I have identified 3 different working Hero P2s - and none of these 3 are the GJ - then what is the apparent Hero P2 that Dr. Van Gelder held briefly on the bridge (pointing it in Kirk's direction) in episode 11, "Dagger Of The Mind"?
2. Is the P2 that Dr. Van Gelder holds in episode 11 a working P2?
3. Is this not the same P2 that Riley later holds in episode 13, "Conscience Of The King"?
4. And this is the same P2 that Lenore also holds and shoots in episode 13, "Conscience Of The King"?
(i) I do not see a horseshoe in the sight window of the P2 that Lenore holds
(ii) I do not see the emitter lamp light before the beam animation when she fires it.
- - The sight window on the Lenore P2 looks like the later sight windows on the "Midgrade" P2s that Kirk and Spock hold and use in episode 26, "The Devil In
The Dark". There is depth in the forehead space and the white substance behind the sight window glass, where the P1 nozzle would be, is lumpy.
(iii) The Riley/ Lenore has a real "ten Turn" knob and other Hero parts.

5. Was the "Riley/Lenore" P2 one of the "non-working" hero/practical phasers that Solow mentions?

6. Did the Desilu Prop Department make the Van Gelder/Riley/Lenore P2 before they got the "refurbished" P2s back from Wah Chang?
(i) The different screw placements
(ii) The different P2 body color
(iii) The different P3 (power pack grip) color

7. Did the Desilu Prop Department build hero P1s that were not part of a hero P2 build?

Thanks again

I was not aware I posted my statements and questions in this thread. I thought I had posted them in stand alone thread. So I apologize for being off topic. However this thread certainly has visibility - so my goof may increase visibility and responses.

That would seem so, best as we can tell.

And the broken forehead piece wasn't lost, just not in place in the Charlie shot. The piece still exists today, it's held in place only by the top metal piece.
View attachment 1599726

Roger that.

 

[TOS Phaser]

Robin1 - thank you for taking the time to answer some of my questions and provide photos of the GJ that I have never seen before.
I appreciate it.

 

[AJK001]

Yes—the crack is there in the autopsy video.

In the video, you can hear President Geroge H.W. Bush speaking. I would estimate the video dates from the 1989 / 1990 timeframe…close to the time when some guy peed on the The Dude’s rug that “really tied the room together”.

Thanks for the clarification.

In the Charlie pic the upper piece of the forehead shell is missing, you can see the red background color showing through the site window. Also the break line matches the angle of the break on Greg's. And yes the break was there in the autopsy vid.
View attachment 1599723

View attachment 1599724

Thanks for the clarification. Like TOSPhaser I had heard the story of someone dropping it when Greg was showing it to them.

 

[asalaw]

"The phasers would have all been built during series preproduction." - - Asalaw

Asalaw - your statement above and Feek61's "inventory list" and his associated statements in this thread imply all 4 Hero P2s were made, by the Desilu Prop Department (DPD) after the second pilot.

I thought the DPD made props prior to each episode, after Fred reviewed the episode script - with money allocated from the episode budget?
Thus for some reason (I will have to go back through all of my notes over the years) - I thought the first two Hero P2s were made for episode 5, "The Enemy Within" (which was broadcast after episode 6, "The Man Trap".)

And along the same lines - the next two Hero P2s were built by the DPD for the episode they first appeared in.

So then if the Charlie X P2 is the GJ - then when was it first used and when was the forehead broken?
I thought the Charlie X P2 was the P2 that Sulu used on the planet to heat the rocks in episode 5, "The Enemy Within"? And that the 'Sulu' P2 was badly damaged during the filming of episode 5, "The Enemy Within". Which is why it was not seen again until Episode 8, "Charlie X".

No, that’s not at all how things are done. You can’t just build production requirements piecemeal, prop by prop, episode by episode. You have to have multiples on hand to meet scene needs as they arise, and backups in case of mishaps.

Just because you only see one phaser in an episode does not mean that only one was built, or just for that episode. No competent production manager would permit such an approach. What if it breaks, and there’s no backup prop? Your incredibly expensive shoot just ground to a halt, your ability to deliver the show for broadcast is endangered, and heads will roll.

The first run was built during show prep, GR rejected them, but they had to use the rejects for the first few shows until they could get them reworked. This was partly due to time constraints, but mostly because the first run burned a major part of the prop budget for the season. Much later in the season, they determined they needed a larger number of fiberglass units, and found the money somewhere to get them built.

 

[Gregatron]

...and the auction phaser wasn't built for the production at all.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Curious that someone purchased this phaser at auction and the winner has never posted a video, loaned it to a museum, or simply stepped forward into the light and demanded that people look upon them with envious eyes regarding their new acquisition.

 

[TOS Phaser]

Thanks for the reply (I did not realize I posted my questions in this thread).
Yes - I do realize the episode production order did not match the broadcast order. Hence the reason I posted episode numbers.
Yes - I knew the last episode the B&Ws appeared in was "What are Little Girls Ma

No, that’s not at all how things are done. You can’t just build production requirements piecemeal, prop by prop, episode by episode. You have to have multiples on hand to meet scene needs as they arise, and backups in case of mishaps.

Just because you only see one phaser in an episode does not mean that only one was built, or just for that episode. No competent production manager would permit such an approach. What if it breaks, and there’s no backup prop? Your incredibly expensive shoot just ground to a halt, your ability to deliver the show for broadcast is endangered, and heads will roll.

The first run was built during show prep, GR rejected them, but they had to use the rejects for the first few shows until they could get them reworked. This was partly due to time constraints, but mostly because the first run burned a major part of the prop budget for the season. Much later in the season, they determined they needed a larger number of fiberglass units, and found the money somewhere to get them built.

I know next to nothing about television show production. And I have never claimed otherwise.

I have nothing to gain one way or the other. I seek the truth about the history of these beloved props and nothing else.

I assume therefore, based on your reply to my reply to "Robn1", the "old timer accounts" information from "convention conversations" provided by: "susannetrek" aka "susannetrek2012" aka "jonpaultrek2012"® on each of the eBay items this person offers - entitled: "Some Star Trek Prop History For Inquiring Minds", which is based on the testimony of such people as Bob Stone, Richard Heimer and James Ruggs is just another pile of misinformation...

I do not know this person nor am I affiliated in any way with this eBay seller - I simply want to know is correct - and which story is the most accurate.

And thank you for taking the time to respond and the information you provided.

 

[Gregatron]

I do not know this person nor am I affiliated in any way with this eBay seller

But the main subject of this thread most definitely is.

 

[feek61]

Curious that someone purchased this phaser at auction and the winner has never posted a video, loaned it to a museum, or simply stepped forward into the light and demanded that people look upon them with envious eyes.

I am sure it was purchased as an investment.

 

[robn1]

Curious that someone purchased this phaser at auction and the winner has never posted a video, loaned it to a museum, or simply stepped forward into the light and demanded that people look upon them with envious eyes.

I am sure it was purchased as an investment.

It was immediately put up for resale, and still has no takers.

 

[TOS Phaser]

But the main subject of this thread most definitely is.

Thank You! I should have known! (I have a lot of work to do...)