Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[Gregatron]

Hero #4 was, apparently, already broken by "The Conscience of the King", and wasn't seen afterwords (I think). It's P1 had a red ruby crown.

Yeah, HeroComm asserts that the Lenore most likely had a red watch crown.

So, let’s assume that the Lenore was damaged, and that a fifth hero was built to replace it. Why, then, is there no evidence that it ever appeared onscreen? Production-made, but not screenused? Why would it even need “repairs”, then?

And, if the auction piece IS the Lenore, sent in for repairs, than why do its particular tells and details not match even the limited reference on that specific prop?

 

[Jintosh]

Yeah, HeroComm asserts that the Lenore most likely had a red watch crown.


And, if the auction piece IS the Lenore, sent in for repairs, than why do its particular tells and details not match even the limited reference on that specific prop?

Because the tells would be altered to match the tells of the Jein in an attempt at "restoration". (quotes are intentional)
I'm playing Devil's advocate, not saying this is my current actual belief.

 

[genZOD]

Yeah, HeroComm asserts that the Lenore most likely had a red watch crown.

So, let’s assume that the Lenore was damaged, and that a fifth hero was built to replace it. Why, then, is there no evidence that it ever appeared onscreen? Production-made, but not screenused? Why would it even need “repairs”, then?

And, if the auction piece IS the Lenore, sent in for repairs, than why do its particular tells and details not match even the limited reference on that specific prop?

"Repairs", lol.

Anyway, I was just thinking through the idea of it being a repaired version of a known prop. The front end damage of that particular P2 and its disappearance early in production made it the most likely candidate to me.

 

[Gregatron]

"Repairs", lol.

Anyway, I was just thinking through the idea of it being a repaired version of a known prop. The front end damage of that particular P2 and its disappearance early in production made it the most likely candidate to me.

Of course. Except that the Lenore had two (rather than one) P2 shell underside attachment screws (a unique tell for that particular hero), and both of them were on the LEFT side of the dividing line between shell halves. Unlike the auction piece, which has only one (front) screw, and it’s located on the RIGHT side shell, just like the Jein.

“Repairs” would not account for that change. There would surely be remaining evidence of that rear screw hole, and swapping the front screw from the left shell half to the right would be both pointless and difficult.

 

[dbuck]

Originally I thought that this auction phaser might be the damaged hero and not a presumed fifth hero, but the body does not match up to any screen caps. For me the easiest tell is the dilithium knob and side rib gap. No repair changes that and no other phaser, hero, mid, or crapezoid I have seen has that gap.

That also creates a question, would someone faking a phaser make such an obvious mistake?

Usually the easiest answer is the correct one, but so much doesn’t add up, it doesn’t screen match any original phaser, it doesn’t make sense that it’s production made, how and why did those authenticating it do so, and why is that info so secret? Who has skin in this game? Why did the opening bid drop so precipitously? If it IS a genuine hero phaser it’s worth so much it’s not even funny.

Interesting side note, HA is selling some Mark English fakes. They are marked as replicas, but they are some of those aged fakes that used to bounce around.

 

[genZOD]

My problem with HA's story behind this mysterious 5th hero, is that they aren't exactly claiming that's what it is. I mean, that would be weird enough. HA doesn't seem to claim that they were originally a matched set. The claim they are making is that a previously unknown & apparently never photographed/filmed P2 and a similarly unknown P1 have been brought together. That suggests that there could be at least one other unknown/unseen P1 & P2.

The claim is that Wah Chang was given a broken P2 to repair & then gave that piece away later on, right? The P1 walked off the set in 67. The fact that both have a similarly poor level of finish is just a coincidence. So either there were at least two sets of P1 & P2 hero phasers that were built, damaged, repaired and never used on screen or there is one that went through all of that, was separated into its P1 & P2 components and given away under very different circumstances, hidden for decades and then brought back together.

 

[Jintosh]

Of course. Except that the Lenore had two (rather than one) P2 shell underside attachment screws (a unique tell for that particular hero), and both of them were on the LEFT side of the dividing line between shell halves. Unlike the auction piece, which has only one (front) screw, and it’s located on the RIGHT side shell, just like the Jein.

“Repairs” would not account for that change. There would surely be remaining evidence of that rear screw hole, and swapping the front screw from the left shell half to the right would be both pointless and difficult.

Thanks. If the screws just aren't right for Hero #4, is the one screw right for either of the other two remaining heroes ? (not the Jein) Even at the outside of possibility.
This may have been discussed, but 39 pages would be a lot to comb through.

 

[WinstonWolf359]

Thanks. If the screws just aren't right for Hero #4, is the one screw right for either of the other two remaining heroes ? (not the Jein) Even at the outside of possibility.
This may have been discussed, but 39 pages would be a lot to comb through.

ONLY the Reilly/Lenore phaser has the two bottom screws on the left side. Every other hero seen on screen has one screw on the right side, like the GJ.

It has always been my theory Wah modified Reilly/Lenore first. The heros had three side screws originally, but he reduced that down to two bottom screws. The rest of the hero phasers only have one front bottom screw, which leads me to believe he realized after the first prop he converted that the rear fin clip was enough to hold the back end together and didn't bother with two screws on the rest.

 

[Jintosh]

Okay, a simple question.

Can anyone make an argument that the Nona could have intentionally been modified to look like the Jein in a "restoration" ?

 

[alensatemybuick]

So should it come to that, what percentage (or which one(s)) of this forum’s participants need to be convinced for the thread to be moved to “Screen Used Costumes and Props”?

 

[Jintosh]

So should it come to that, what percentage (or which one(s)) of this forum’s participants need to be convinced for the thread to be moved to “Screen Used Costumes and Props”?

I like investigating (and potentially eliminating) theories. If the Nona conversion can be eliminated(option A), then that would be another nail. If the Nona conversion becomes a possibility(option B), then the next step would be to try confirmation. HA is not interested in any questions relating to disproving their phaser. But, what about a question that might CONFIRM their phaser as a screen used Nona ? They might be more receptive...

(not endorsing either A or B option, at this point. Just seeking input)

 

[joberg]

I don't know if moving this thread to the "SUCP" would be a good strategy. I bet you that more people will click here than on that forum

 

[robn1]

ONLY the Reilly/Lenore phaser has the two bottom screws on the left side. Every other hero seen on screen has one screw on the right side, like the GJ.

The outtake phaser has only been seen in that one side view, and in the Galileo locker. It's screw count/arrangement is unknown.

 

[genZOD]

I apologize for the bad quality of the stills. The Lenore phaser does have 2 screws. So that's a strike against. However, the dial on the side is fairly low. I'm not sure if it's lower than the TMOST dial or not. I do think that it intersects with the fins, so that pretty much rules it out.

 

[Jintosh]

So, is it possible to turn the TOP phaser into the BOTTOM phaser if you did so deliberately ? (or at least the outtake P2 part ?)
Again, playing Devil's Advocate.

 

[robn1]

So, is it possible to turn the TOP phaser into the BOTTOM phaser if you did so deliberately ? (or at least the outtake P2 part ?)
Again, playing Devil's Advocate.

You'd have to add the slope to the front top, reposition the side knob and rebuild the rib the knob cut into, reposition the P1 release button, rework the trigger box to change the handle angle, etc. An awful lot of work for no gain whatsoever.

 

[Gregatron]

ONLY the Reilly/Lenore phaser has the two bottom screws on the left side. Every other hero seen on screen has one screw on the right side, like the GJ.

It has always been my theory Wah modified Reilly/Lenore first. The heros had three side screws originally, but he reduced that down to two bottom screws. The rest of the hero phasers only have one front bottom screw, which leads me to believe he realized after the first prop he converted that the rear fin clip was enough to hold the back end together and didn't bother with two screws on the rest.

I’ve felt the same way.

You'd have to add the slope to the front top, reposition the side knob and rebuild the rib the knob cut into, reposition the P1 release button, rework the trigger box to change the handle angle, etc. An awful lot of work for no gain whatsoever.

Exactly. There’s no reason to think that components (side knob) moved oh-so-slightly—or that major body components changed shape (forehead slope)—when Wah reworked the black-and-whites into the grays, or during any “repairs”.

Also, let’s say there was major damage necessitating the replacement of the P2 body shells. Considering all of the parts which were permanently glued into the P2 body (P1 release, electrical twist-lock, tenturn knob, etc.), it would not be easy to try and remove those components and then transplant them into new shells pulled from the mold. Instead, one would more likely have to fabricate and/or source all of those parts from scratch.

Considering the work and cost involved to “repair” a hero phaser in such a way, I could more easily see the producers saying, “If we ever need four heroes in a shot, just use the three which work, and give Ensign Redshirt a midgrade. No one will notice.”.


We have enough views of (and tells for) each of the four screencap-matched heroes to rule out the auction piece likely being any one of them. That would mean it’s a mystery fifth phaser, built at an unknown time for unknown reasons, and (apparently) never appearing onscreen, at least not in a way which can be screencap-matched.

 

[Jintosh]

You'd have to add the slope to the front top, reposition the side knob and rebuild the rib the knob cut into, reposition the P1 release button, rework the trigger box to change the handle angle, etc. An awful lot of work for no gain whatsoever.

Thanks.

 

[Jintosh]

Which just leaves the Finney. So, it's out too ?
Even with the possibility of some modification to make it look like a Jein ?

 

[USS Endeav]

to make it look like a Jein ?

To what end would this be done? This objective/goal has not been demonstrated with any prior TOS prop. As Robn1 pointed out, it is a significant effort for seemingly zero gain. Even in todays world of 8k sets and 4k filmography, I doubt any prop house, internal or 3rd party, would take such steps. Certainly any of the numerous prop professionals here can speak to this.

Absent a reason for doing this, it seems an implausible theory.