Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)
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JESmith
New Member
All these experts flip-flopping their opinions reminds me of that old Saturday Night Live fake-commercial about Hypnotist the Amazing Alexander, where every single member of every audience comes out of his Broadway shows droning, "I loved it. It was much better than CATS. I'm going to see it again and again."
"I loved it. It is definitely an authentic hero Phaser. I'm going to endorse it again and again."
"I loved it. It is definitely an authentic hero Phaser. I'm going to endorse it again and again."
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Stairstars
Well-Known Member
The preceding note's tone reminds me why I quit Facebook a few years back.
Now that it is all over, except for the crying or cheering, I would like to see a condensation of this very bulky thread into a Jack Webb report, to memorialize what, at this time with all the known resources, the facts were offered. The posts with the close up images of it's physicality, and explanations of what was different about the phaser, the lack of screen use images, materials, all the things you guys nailed, at least to me, in a Reader's Digest form.
I think it would serve a good purpose. Other sites, who, in the past have done this type of thing, are now silent.
Let future archeologists find your footprints.
Now that it is all over, except for the crying or cheering, I would like to see a condensation of this very bulky thread into a Jack Webb report, to memorialize what, at this time with all the known resources, the facts were offered. The posts with the close up images of it's physicality, and explanations of what was different about the phaser, the lack of screen use images, materials, all the things you guys nailed, at least to me, in a Reader's Digest form.
I think it would serve a good purpose. Other sites, who, in the past have done this type of thing, are now silent.
Let future archeologists find your footprints.
All these experts flip-flopping their opinions reminds me of that old Saturday Night Live fake-commercial about Hypnotist the Amazing Alexander, where ever single member of every audience comes out of his Broadway shows droning, "I loved it. It was much better than CATS. I'm going to see it again and again."
"I loved it. It is definitely an authentic hero Phaser. I'm going to endorse it again and again."
Oh, you can be sure that some people are happy to say "close enough" and leave it at that. But we fans who have no financial stake in this are all about problem-solving and getting to the truth of the matter, and that doubtless makes certain people nervous.
Fortunately, this is still a free country--with freedom of speech--and this thread has been full of interesting opinions and discussion, regardless of the end result of the auction. I commend all of you folks for weeks of lively discussion and debate.
genZOD
Sr Member
I don't care much about the politics, but I am genuinely interested in your opinion.
Why do you (when you cared) believe that the phaser is real prop? I did send messages to HA, and was never provided an answer outside of statements amounting to: GJ & "unnamed experts evaluated it".
The P1 & P2 haven't been screen matched. The phaser was presented with no history outside the LOAs. The owners of both the P1 & P2 evidently didn't show them to anyone until they met and decided to sell them. There are no stories of anyone ever seeing them in the 70's 80's 90' 2000's... & there are certainly no photos. Each part of this prop has a different story that contradicts what we had previously known in unique ways. For instance, Wah never mentioned the P2 in any interviews & didn't included it when he discussed items from the show that he did have. The P1 & P2 have details that are unique to them, and them alone. The side dial position on the P1, for example. That one really bothers me because it would actually be a bit difficult to move the dial down and repair the ribs. I mean, I suppose that this 5th hero may have been built to replace a broken one & the builder changed some details--but without evidence that's just speculation.
As I have written elsewhere: Time has a way of introducing inconsistencies. Things get lost then found, altered by owners or even without the knowledge of owners. That said, without a screen match or ANY documented history it's hard to accept this as areal prop. But many experts have. My question is: why? What did they see? Are the materials absolutely period correct? Did an expert in authenticating/detecting forgeries (not Star Trek or prop making) look at the piece? Very little real info leaves only the inconsistencies... and there are a lot of them.
Personally, I'd like to be proven wrong. I want another Star Trek prop to be found and scrutinized.
Why do you (when you cared) believe that the phaser is real prop? I did send messages to HA, and was never provided an answer outside of statements amounting to: GJ & "unnamed experts evaluated it".
The P1 & P2 haven't been screen matched. The phaser was presented with no history outside the LOAs. The owners of both the P1 & P2 evidently didn't show them to anyone until they met and decided to sell them. There are no stories of anyone ever seeing them in the 70's 80's 90' 2000's... & there are certainly no photos. Each part of this prop has a different story that contradicts what we had previously known in unique ways. For instance, Wah never mentioned the P2 in any interviews & didn't included it when he discussed items from the show that he did have. The P1 & P2 have details that are unique to them, and them alone. The side dial position on the P1, for example. That one really bothers me because it would actually be a bit difficult to move the dial down and repair the ribs. I mean, I suppose that this 5th hero may have been built to replace a broken one & the builder changed some details--but without evidence that's just speculation.
As I have written elsewhere: Time has a way of introducing inconsistencies. Things get lost then found, altered by owners or even without the knowledge of owners. That said, without a screen match or ANY documented history it's hard to accept this as areal prop. But many experts have. My question is: why? What did they see? Are the materials absolutely period correct? Did an expert in authenticating/detecting forgeries (not Star Trek or prop making) look at the piece? Very little real info leaves only the inconsistencies... and there are a lot of them.
Personally, I'd like to be proven wrong. I want another Star Trek prop to be found and scrutinized.
The quick and simple reason is I know the other expert who along with Greg Jein, authenticated it. There is a lot more info about the item that hasn't been released to the public. Having said that however, It is NOT my place to disclose anything and I won't. That is the reasoning behind my belief and mine alone, why I stand behind Greg Jein.It's for that very reason I have stayed OUT of this thread since my initial posts. AND, like I said, now I couldn't care less.
I would never call someone else with an opposing point of view names...Your entitled to your own opinion(s)...But so am I.
Thanks.
Simonized
Active Member
Okay... after going through 62 pages of this debate I'm understandably worn out.
Yes I'm a new member (ish) but I will never claim to know more than I do or intervene with a load of talk in something I know nothing about.
I have mixed thoughts on this one. There are experienced members here who know exactly what they're talking about when it comes to phaser props whether they be real, fake or forged. Although the prospect of another phaser being found is exciting, this is shrouded in scepticism judging on what I've read by the afore mentioned members as well as what's right in front of me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the possibility that there was another hero, there isn't really anything to disprove that as things are often made that in the end, are never utilized or are redesigned etc but the origin story doesn't quite work out, combine that with some of the facts brought to the table here (discrepancies on the unit itself etc) mixed with "where did the P1 come from"?, throw in a side order of "Wah sat on this all that time"? and so on and so forth and it just doesn't sit right for me.
I want to say I'm neutral but I still wouldn't touch it with a 10ft cattle prod without knowing for certain, one way or another. Too many unanswered questions and a lot of hush hush
Yes I'm a new member (ish) but I will never claim to know more than I do or intervene with a load of talk in something I know nothing about.
I have mixed thoughts on this one. There are experienced members here who know exactly what they're talking about when it comes to phaser props whether they be real, fake or forged. Although the prospect of another phaser being found is exciting, this is shrouded in scepticism judging on what I've read by the afore mentioned members as well as what's right in front of me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the possibility that there was another hero, there isn't really anything to disprove that as things are often made that in the end, are never utilized or are redesigned etc but the origin story doesn't quite work out, combine that with some of the facts brought to the table here (discrepancies on the unit itself etc) mixed with "where did the P1 come from"?, throw in a side order of "Wah sat on this all that time"? and so on and so forth and it just doesn't sit right for me.
I want to say I'm neutral but I still wouldn't touch it with a 10ft cattle prod without knowing for certain, one way or another. Too many unanswered questions and a lot of hush hush
Stairstars
Well-Known Member
That an astounding comment.
This piece was just offered by one of the biggest venues ever in a Globally advertised sale, as a highlight of an auction that did nearly $8M! Who keeps secrets when it's auction time? When is the big reveal? Did not all bidders have a right to know the complete story? That is counterproductive to the process and unheard of. Unbelievable...
genZOD
Sr Member
...and there's the crux of the problem. The items value is pretty much ONLY that info. Without it, we have an unverifiable story that contradicts previously understood historical details and physical details that are inconsistent in ways that have not been explained.
Logic dictates one must remain a skeptic until if ever reference material is made public.
USS Endeav
Sr Member
Parroting Heritage and HeroComm is meaningless.
If the consignor has barred Heritage and the experts Heritage employed from releasing proof, the viewing audience can interpret that any way they see fit, including using it to dismiss the claims made by the consigner, Heritage and the expert(s). Oh, and that includes the opinion of someone's cousins uncles brothers roommate that happens to know someone involved.
You may want to get checked for proctalgia fugax as you have come across as having a case of it yourself.
genZOD
Sr Member
That was HA's place or the sellers or the expert evaluators... literally anyone making or backing the claim. Not just because a fairly large sum of money was involved, but because a significant historical artifact may be involved.
Well that was why. The didn't actually say they personally authenticated it, but that they trust the people who did.
Birdie
Master Member
So...let's take it as read for a moment that the props are real and that the evaluators (and a small percentage of others) are aware of details or information that prove this to be true. They are, however, unable to reveal this information to the bidding public, to the almost certain detriment of the auction.
Why? What possible facts about a public auction could be that sensitive?
Thoughts?
Why? What possible facts about a public auction could be that sensitive?
Thoughts?
AnubisGuard
Master Member
But why?
This makes no sense. Not that I'm claiming you're not telling the truth, but...it makes no sense. I can't think of any legit scenario that would result in this situation. Are you able to elaborate at all on why HA doesn't want the information public?
(At this point, the secret information would need to be a photo of Wah Chang holding the HA hero for me to believe it.)
Racer_X
Well-Known Member
It's amazing just how many people have irrefutable proof, documentation, names of those who inspected the phaser, etc, yet just aren't able to share any of that information with us. How strange. And also, how condescending. I mean, if one truely has proof, but knows they are unable to share it, then why bring it up in the first place? What purpose does that serve? None, other than to stroke their own ego.
So I call B.S. on all these "I have secret information about the phaser" shenanigans. Unsharable proof is having no proof at all.
So I call B.S. on all these "I have secret information about the phaser" shenanigans. Unsharable proof is having no proof at all.
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