All kit producers read

[BrundelFly]

I KNEW that whole Independent Colony thing would bite us in the arse eventually.

 

[JoslinFX]

I KNEW that whole Independent Colony thing would bite us in the arse eventually.

If i remeber correctly, i was imformed a long time ago, that Starcraft Models [which produced a large of 1/1400 scale Star Trek starships] in the US won such a case against a sci fi shop that riped off most of there kits. Because Star Craft owned the interlectual manufacture rights of patterns and masters, regardless that tey didnt own the orignal designs.

Yet they won, so i geuss the US did at some point have an age old law that protectect private manufactures... even if you may not have it now.

But this is what i was informed about a long time ago, in 2001, when i was making patterns for sci fi shop over here in the UK. i didnt look to deeply into the issue back then, so if any could corroberate this, it would be nice.

Jonathan

 

[MustangGTR1]

If am not mistaken, Starcraft also got a few C&D's as well over the years.,,Kev

 

[ralphee]

Pretty eager to hear about the "wing" Frank, but then you know this :lol

Was one thing i wondered when i mastered the TESB Leichter pod TBH, whether it would get recast, but then, the amount of resin needed, and the price Rich knocked them out at, kinda didnt bother me that much.

Planning on mastering the 8rad one at some point for a possible GK release, that too will be the same case, i reckon it can be offered at a price, that would make a recaster think twice and wonder if its worth it at all.

Cool thing is, the pods dont appeal to all, its a pretty "cult" kinda mini, many dont even know they exist at all lol.

lee

 

[Jedi Dade]

I'm seriously "hoping" that the technology becomes so cheap that kit producers can begin to make kits again at reasonable prices (to them) so that return on investment is "mostly" recouping their time in making the master, more than the cost of the sorced kits. But I fear that the time for that is too far off in the future...

Jedi Dade

 

[kbilly]

I think technology will eventually allow any individual to take an exact digital 3D representation of any kit part they want down to the copy shop to be 3D printed.

 

[JoslinFX]

I think technology will eventually allow any individual to take an exact digital 3D representation of any kit part they want down to the copy shop to be 3D printed.

Well hopefully not yet, Besides, the its not a matter of scanning the parts, its a matter of the recast being able to figer out how to make more and more complex molds that worries me.

80% of recasters, are limited to only knowing basic mold making processes to rip of your kit. The more complex the pattern, the more complex the mold is needed to replicate it.


Jonathan

 

[STEVE THE SWEDE]

JoslinFX,

Just a tip, you might want to stop promoting AA's trooper suits/helmets as the most accurate armor choice. Otherwise this thread is bound to go off topic REALLY fast!:lol

So what you're saying is that pretty much anyone in the UK could make trooper armor due to the expired industrial design copyright? In that case it should be a open market for "safe making", not just for AA? Am I right?

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[JoslinFX]

JoslinFX,

Just a tip, you might want to stop promoting AA's trooper suits/helmets as the most accurate armor choice. Otherwise this thread is bound to go off topic REALLY fast!:lol

So what you're saying is that pretty much anyone in the UK could make trooper armor due to the expired industrial design copyright? In that case it should be a open market for "safe making", not just for AA? Am I right?

Cheers,

Steve.

I never said anyone, i said only 1 person in the UK has the original patterns who produces the suits legally, so if you wanted a the most acurate legal suit, go to him. Im not an expert on SW suit armor, but "If" his suits are these AA suits you speak of, and made from the orginal 1976 patterns from the orginal film, how could the acuracy be in question.

Beside the topic wasn't his suits, the topic was legality of production, and British copyright law.

Interms of anyone producing stuff, i would still suggest that any prodcution should be the private collector propogating you, not you progating a market to be legally protected.

Jonathan

 

[BrundelFly]

"Beside the topic wasn't his suits, the topic was legality of production, and British copyright law."


Actually, the topic of the thread I started, was just me venting that technology is changing HOW things are recast, and appears to be increasing as of late.

I get PMs from folks all the time seeking advice re: kit producing, as they are familiar with the kits that Moe and I have made available.

The thread was just a shout out to those folks and anyone else interested in the topic.

Sadly, the thread has turned into a dissertation on British law, and also generated a rash of folks asking me if we are "still going to produce kit ____" (please stop PM ing me asking about kits. Just watch the baord for news)


I spoke to Moe recently, and we seem to be on the same page.
We will watch where our future projects go very carefully.

We Probably know most of the folks who would be the higher end kit buyers anyway. For example, the SLAVE, there are probably only 5 people on this board who are serious about getting it and have the skill set to finish it.

It's going to be one of those models that separates the "not so serious about the hobby" from the "serious about the hobby and need a 12 step program". so to speak.

 

[ralphee]

Frank....PM sent :lol.........haha got ya :lol

Ill add this snippet though, on the basis of "donor" kits being replicated, i found a couple that have been re'popped while building the ATST, by a company called Bilek.
These guys were selling the Nebelwerfer at the time, that was a fairly scarce kit in the Italeri mold for peanuts, not sure if this was a move by Italeri in selling off tooling, or, in fact a recasting ploy by Bilek, no clue.

A good friend even showed a peak at a 1/20 Lotus MKIII kit that was surprisingly identical to its Tamiya forebearer, so this behaviour goes on in "donor" realms quite frequently it seems, again, whether its above board or not, i dont really know, but i find this subject on copied donors interesting i must admit.

lee

 

[BrundelFly]

Interesting.
I know Tamiya will "lease" out its molds from time to time.
Some molds get outright sold, and resold..
So..some of it might not be so sinister.

Frank....PM sent :lol.........haha got ya :lol

Ill add this snippet though, on the basis of "donor" kits being replicated, i found a couple that have been re'popped while building the ATST, by a company called Bilek.
These guys were selling the Nebelwerfer at the time, that was a fairly scarce kit in the Italeri mold for peanuts, not sure if this was a move by Italeri in selling off tooling, or, in fact a recasting ploy by Bilek, no clue.

A good friend even showed a peak at a 1/20 Lotus MKIII kit that was surprisingly identical to its Tamiya forebearer, so this behaviour goes on in "donor" realms quite frequently it seems, again, whether its above board or not, i dont really know, but i find this subject on copied donors interesting i must admit.

lee

 

[Jestefarean]

Sorry to hear that Brundelfly...but you and I saw this coming...maybe just not this soon. Thanks for all you do, and did though. We need more folks like you!

 

[MustangGTR1]

This is so much fun....Kev

 

[BrundelFly]

More folks like ME?

GOOD GOD why?

I complain constantly...Im old and creaky....I haven't picked up my airbrush in so long I cant remember which end the paint comes out...

...and I fart alot.


Getting OLD sucks.

 

[ralphee]

Meh, your part of the furniture here Frank, i think many would miss you even complaining brother.
Anyways, airbrushes shoot paint??????? I thought they were just used to blow dust off of incomplete builds :lol

lee

 

[BrundelFly]

meh, your part of the furniture here frank, i think many would miss you even complaining brother.
Anyways, airbrushes shoot paint??????? I thought they were just used to blow dust off of incomplete builds :lol

lee

hahahahhaha what a great idea!! Who knew????

 

[ghostryder]

Recasts of Sideshow's Limited Edition Aliens Warrior bust have been flooding eBay lately:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SIZE-1-1-ALIEN-...ND-NEW_W0QQitemZ250542038985QQ#ht_5781wt_1157

(Hope it's okay to post the link, since 1) it's a recast, and 2) there is an unlimited supply)

Several of the auctions even list it as a recast. Licensed product or not, just another example of someone making $ off someone else's work. There seems to be this "so what" attitude that's really offensive...

 

[MustangGTR1]

Also about making the thing harder to mold, thast will not work. All you have to do is cut the part the way you want it and mold it. There is not any way to stop it.

Oh, your not old till you fart Bondo dust....Kev

 

[Basherthrasher]

Well here in the UK, The crafter Contract stands in British law under the Coup'e Contr'e Coup'e, and.... in the UK, any entertainment industry designs for props, or miniatures, or costums, or set peices, or anything designed for a film regardless of copyright, when it is made for a film that was made in United Kingdom, i.e Star Wars - Elstree Studios Hartfordshire, is defined by British Law, as Industrial Design, and Industrial design Copyright, only has a 15 year lifespan """which is non renuable"""...

So if your in the UK, and you produce a kit based on a model designed and copyrighted in the mid 70's lets say, then its copyright in the UK, ran out at the end of 80's

"This is why just before this christmas, for the first time ever George Lucas LOST his last copyright lawsuite case against the Original pattern maker who [based in the UK] produced the Original Stormtrooper Suits for A New Hope in 1976.
This case went to a US court, and was passed over to a United Kingdom Court, because the Accused was living in another country, and that country was where the orignal manufacturing took place, not just for suposed ilegal copying, but also, where the orignal film was made and all legal issues related to any arrangment between lucas film, and the indavidual concerned.

Lucas case: Hes producing stormtrooper suits from the orignal patterned masters that i own, and the copy right.

Artist case: I own the interlectual copyright to the "pattern design" and the masters them selves are mine under all UK legal definition of interlectual manufacturing rights ='s [Manufacturers agreement or crafters contract, either presented to the contractor by the manufacturer]

This artist won Because: -

1] This artist was not under any form of undustrial copyright contract by the contractor when he was hired to redesign the suites to fit actors, and produce the stormtrooper suits. As an indavidual artist and professional manufacture he would have given the film production a manufactures agreemant [Equal in law, to a crafters contract] Which means he was covered under the Coup'e Contr'e Coup'e Of Copyright, because it was a private contractor hiring him to make the suites without a contract, so lucas only own the original suite made for the film. Of which the contractor was only privy to final product [the armor suites] Not anything use to make them -[i.e The Masters]. Lucas could Not prove his companies legal standing under any form of film production contract, because none existed... which put the copy right law on the pattern makers side.

2] The copy right it self to the stormtrooper design, ran out in the end of the 80's, becuase the copyright of the stormtrooper design in british law was Industrial design, and the film was made in the United Kingdom. Which only had a 15 year life span, and unrenuable in the UK.

This Artist who produced the original suites, has been legally producing stormtrooper suits from the orginal patterns he created in 1976 for years, and he will still be legally able to to produce them for ever more. So if you want the most acurate, Legal, and official stormtrooper suite order it from him.



In the UK, a private indavidual collector, or an internet sci-fi model shop can hire me to make what ever resin kits [based on any science fiction they like] and i am not bound by any copyright issues, because i am being to contracted as amanufacturer to do so, but if that same indavidual or company decide to sell what i was hired to make for them to the public, only then does copyrigt arrise, and that lays on the head of the person who hired me, not mine.
I would also be covered by UK law if any kit from any patterns i created were recast and ripped of, and every legal right to prosecute that person or company. copyright of the Original sci-fi design would be irelevant, because the copyright issue, would be the interlectual right of person who made the patterns of the partticlar kit ripped off.
But if I specifically advertise a particual product ive made, propogating the public or company to buy that specific product then i would be in breach of copyrigt just by the propogation, regardless if i actually sell anything or not..

- So its a shame to hear that US law no longer protects private contract manufactures, under the Coup'e Contr'e Coup'e Of interlectual copyright of artistic design. Which effects ever single undustry in the US, [i.e carpenters, machine makes, furniture makers, car machanics, or any industrial specialist, where any indavidual person who personally manufactures items under privste contract by a private client or company, to create things, that been made and designed by others before them.


So to all you, private kit makers, Move to the UK lol....


PS: For those that dont understand what Coup'e Contr'e Coup'e means, its the abrieviation for a "principle" of opposite cercumstance that works vise versa, but only one cercumstance out of the two can be the establishing fact.
This term was defined by the medical profession in Murder cases, to establish whether a moving object hit a stationary body part, or a moving body part hitting a stationary object. This principle has been applied to many things like Law, and legal issues.


Jonathan

Actually,the poor sot that was sued - LOST the case against him! This is in an old RPF thread. It was Shepperton studios that was sued by Lucasfilm limited. In the original court document it stated that the stormtrooper design was owned by LFL,as the original artist based these characters from Ralph McQuarries' original drawings to Lucas's approval. Shepperton studios was only licensed to make these to LFL studios' specs. It was,and IS therefore,Lucasfilms' original design,and property.

The patent,copyright,and trademark of the Star Wars stormtrooper design is still owned by Lucasfilm Limited! These were all renewed when the originals expired. Haven't you wondered why the market hasn't been flooded with ripoff versions of all the Star Wars Stormtrooper,and other characters all over? Meaning that there are FANMADE products,but not manufactured non-licensed props,and armour flooding ebay,and other acution sites. You can by properly made,and licensed Stormtrooper,lids (helmets) anywhere now. You can't sell just any old thing on ebay. They are strict on replica (fanmade included)items on ebay. These are NOT ALLOWED! If someone reports the things someone makes,either it be original work,or a recast of a licensed product - they can have your auction pulled. And,if you do it enough times,ebay will ban you permanently!

What you're saying is contradictory to the facts! If a studio "hires" you do work for them,it's the STUDIOS' PROPERTY - NOT YOURS! You are a hired hand,and not the original license owner,or the patent owner,or even the copyright owner! International copyright law IS applicable in England,and all other countries where the international copyright originally applies to. This is why it is called INTERNATIONAL copyright,and not neigborhood copyright! This means only the original copyright owner can legally produce these items without being sued. Once the original studio that commisions another to do work - the secondary studio has absolutely no rights whatsoever in any further manufacturing of that product once all copyright agreements,and contractual obligations are met. Treadwell pointed you in the right direction. Get it,got it - GOOD! Goodbye,and God bless.