Advice sought, anyone in contact with REL aka Richard Long

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by tnaig001, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. REL

    REL Sr Member

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    Ah yes, the thread that attacks me, fine, but then goes on to attack an innocent person, including accusing her of being a mastermind behind a model company that she had nothing to do with, then links to a obsessive blog that accuses her of being a crook as well.

    Because of that, I am now done with this tread, and this site. Moderators please ban my account. If anyone that I owe wants to get on a schedule to get their stuff or money, please email me at rda2012@gmail.com and we will work it out.

    I will not participate in any place that willingly allows attacks against innocent bystanders.
     
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  2. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, a schedule is what we need. And what we've been asking for since each of us individually don't know the extent of this. That is why we got all of this info together: in order to help sort it out.

    I had only asked about the old, locked thread in order to reference what seemed to be a resolution. But that was with Mustang, a different guy. And here are those people and more a year later still trying to sort it out...

    So let's see, after emailing, what the schedules are guys.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  3. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    And theres his way of disappearing again. Lets see how long that e mail address lasts. Things will never change.
     
  4. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    Guys. i think its best to keep to objective facts. Like what is outstanding and such.


    To Richard's credit. I received my kits today. They haven't been touched so yeah i think he's really far behind.

    BUT he did send the kit and on his own dime. I offered to offset the amount owing with the cost of shipping but he said he would pay for that as way of making amends.

    Shipping alone was USD$57, so kudos there.

    Let's offer Richard a lifeline. A lot more needs to be done but let's give him some credit when he comes through.
     
    Falk likes this.
  5. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    List Updated:
    Scott Graham:

    Snowspeeder kit (received)
    Owes me $1325
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  6. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey Scott, do the "plus XXXX US-$" mean that he refunded the amount or is that amount still owed by Richard?
     
  7. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Still owed.
     
  8. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Rich, you had 12 months with that thread without asking to be banned, don't use it as an excuse now to further distance yourself from all this. Don't blame the mods for not handing this thread in the way now you 12 months later want it handled. If you have complained about the thread in the past then fare enough but it does seem like your jumping overboard instead of grabbing the wheel and steering this home.... I hope you can steer it home, I'd like to see you steer it home.
     
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  9. REL

    REL Sr Member

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    IED, first of all that kit isn't mine to give to you, if you recall it was a commission you did for someone else and it ended up in my hands to fix, but it ain't fixable so if you want it back I suggest you contact the person that paid you for it and get off my back.

    Secondly I did complain about that thread, on the thread. I don't have to stand for that crap no matter what I owe someone, would any of you? He'll no.

    I'm not running from nobody, as I've said about 20 times I am chipping away at this backlog and people are coming forward to say so, which I appreciate. But there's no way I'm going to sit here and participate in this thread when certain people want to include the innocent in their beef with me.

    I have my email address to get ahold of me, and I answer it, that's not running away, Al.
     
  10. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Like I said, all I'd like is to see you steer this all home then start a fresh, no interest in flaming, quite the opposite, your part of the history of this hobby and hopefully one day won't be part of its past
     
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  11. REL

    REL Sr Member

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    Thank you, Guy I'm trying, I really am trying
     
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  12. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Rich, you don't need to thank me its your right to have a place here just do what you can and resolve as much as you can with genuine commitment and concern for the people at the other end, the more info you give out to people be it good or bad news keeps them from swaying the wrong way re your trust, trust is everything, when its gone its gone....keep your chin up and work harder than you did to get in this situation and it'll come good.


    I've not been around a long time in this hobby like yourself and Steve N and a small group of real friends like he who shall not be named and Julien, Mike etc. I'm learning whats right and wrong with this hobby as I go and I can pin it down to 2 things. Its a slight de rail but relevant to your situation I feel, so worth saying.

    The first thing that destroys this hobby for people is when it becomes a financial income, if your not self reliant and this (hobby) becomes your income then your either doomed or driven mad...... The ONLY exception to this rule I can see is F&M models, from my own experience and what I know I think F&M succeeded where many others failed, I don't meen failed finically I mean failed morally and Failed ego wise and failed because they are having to grab at info from all over the world and grab it without permission sometimes and other times trade it to gain so they can gain more etc etc etc. There is only ever one result to this and its endemic in this that suffer from it, its anger.... the loss of control over their own outcome creates anger and bitterness to those that are holding them back in small way.... The protection of whats their's over the reality that they most likely never created it in the first place or found it or made it from their own knowledge !!!! This is not a rant about individuals its a fact thats becoming clearer and clearer and clearer to me and its the money and the anger it breeds that are the criminals in this hobby....a hobby its not if there is profit to be gained.....

    I've felt the anger recently and been so angry with people it turned my stomach and I was not even in it for profit, the anger is because I can not control my own work, I lost the ability to be as rational through anger..... now if I times that by multiple projects then it would burn me up.....

    The long shot is if we deal with people that want an income from this hobby then we have to guarded and careful or care free!!!! I'm choosing to be care free now as am sticking to what I know best, genuine friendship and sharing in that circle, if that circle isn't self reliant then I'm care free if the results aren't there.....I have been burnt and I've been a bad boy myself but only with a genuine desire to protect whats mine.......

    I only mentioned Steve as he has had similar problems hence a huge long sticky thread, this is not directed at anyone but just an observation about what happens when your not self reliant and want an income from it....... Hobby + Income = Bad things

    So do me a favour, when you do resolve all this, just make it a hobby again and you will enjoy it once more........
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
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  13. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    And to the mods, please don't ban Rel, just listen to his grievance over the thread in question...we ALL make mistakes even Mods
     
  14. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    You asked me if i wanted it back. And i said yes and offered to pay. The guy i did it for we both know him. He hasnt paid me in over a year. So i really dont need to ask him anything. I did want it. But now i really dont care what you do with it. So keep it. Send it back to him or hold onto it.
     
  15. 3d-builder

    3d-builder Sr Member

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    And then there was a quietness in the room and everyone looked around
    at each other, with a baffled look. Some one in the crowed said Amen and all
    of a sudden they understood and there was much celebration!
     
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  16. TazMan2000

    TazMan2000 Sr Member

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    Wooo! Bring out the wine!

    TazMan2000
     
  17. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Im more of a White Russian man and I now Mike drinks diesel :)
     
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  18. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    I only said Richard and Dana were married, perhaps an insult could be inferred from saying she was fronting for him. I don't look at it that way at all, she is doing what a good wife would do in this situation. Trying to help in any way she can.

    I never bothered to read Richards posts from that thread. It was just more excuses to not pay me back, all of this smacks of a desperate man.
    You requested the link Scott, so I posted it.

    Scott, please add to my project list, TOS BOP, cad model, printed, shipped, status unknown.

    I'm keeping all of this public, I've learned a hard lesson in this hobby. If you keep quiet about deals, it's much easier to get screwed over. These guys will say/type anything, since people will let them get away with it. Putting it out in public at the very least will be warning to others. To those who want to be forgiving, haven't had my experience. Your tune will change real quick when it's your money and time that are lost.

    Playing nice and/or being a friend, it means they are only going to take more advantage of you. Especilly if they are desperate, they are looking for ANY way out.
    In the time since I have put up my blog post about Rich, he has not made any attempts to pay me back. I'm sure if I didn't participate in this thread, he would have overlooked me. Just like anybody else who stays silent, and just hopes he gets to you.

    With all of that said, again, I'm hot holding my breath that he will ever come through.
     
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  19. REL

    REL Sr Member

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    You said more than that, maybe you should go read your blog again and you never mention the stuff I did send you, and no I don't owe you a BOP you know damned well what the deal was with that, we made that to sell through a third party to recoup some costs and it sold only one. So "status unknown is a lie"

    As for what else was in that thread is true, your 3d printed crap is the worst , most unusable garbage I've ever seen

    **** you Max you lying piece of ****
     
  20. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Max: I said I couldn't find the thread. I was trying to remember if you were the gut who turned out to be mustang or not.

    I added back in your list. If you'd like, you can also adjust the list or update it by copying and pasting.
     
  21. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    Ive used parts like that. You just have to know how to prep them. I would of loved to have those parts
     
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  22. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    Thanks, Mustang posted a link to my blog. I have no idea who he is. I wasn't posting on the RPF at that time. I use a web tracker. That's how I found out somebody was linking to my site. It got my attention when hit counts spiked up.

    Well Richard you can call me a lair all day, I could care less. I've verified all that I wrote and so has others.
    There is a rebut to the stability of the z-corp product. I printed my NOMAD in 2005, it's been in a case ever since. It hasn't shown signs of any changes, along with a lot of the parts I've since thrown away. You should be happy, that machine is no better than scrap today. As well as a total loss financially.

    Status Unknown, yea I listed it that way since it was never mentioned again. Who knows if you did something with it. After my experience with you I certainly can't take your word for it.

    Besides I'm not the issue, this thread is about you paying people back.

    Myself and many others want to be paid back.
     
  23. 3d-builder

    3d-builder Sr Member

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    Cursing at the end if even using **** how conveniently cowardly an out for getting banned
    and away from the situation.
     
  24. 3d-builder

    3d-builder Sr Member

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    Only the winter blend this time of year or I gel up! LOL
     
  25. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    Michael, I was expecting either a locked thread or a banning.

    Kudos to Richard for even showing up, I never expected that.
    But walking off like he did, why bother to show up in the first place?

    This kind of stuff catches up with you, after taking advantage of so many people. You have to expect hard feelings, best not to get into conversations. That never ends well.
    If I was in his shoes, I would have only said two things.
    "What do I owe you?"
    "What do you want to settle this?"

    Sadly it's never that easy. That's why the legal system is as complex as it is.
     
  26. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    people all have limits. if he was already frustrated with himself and what was happening, it didn't help to add to his frustration obviously.

    sometimes people do need encouragement even if people don't think they deserve it.
     
  27. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    This kind of thing isn't new, there have been a number guys who did the same thing he did. Came back to make amends, and were put through the grinder. This one was very peaceful in comparison, he was the only one that flew off the handle and ran. Richard knew what he faced, he is an adult and this is a message board. Nobody made him come here(as far as I know).
     
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  28. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    with respect CM, it's not about what is fair or right.

    I'm just saying let's try to keep things as positive as possible as conducive as possible.

    bring be out the best in others if we can.


    peace.
     
  29. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    Sadly, I learned by experience that attitude exerts a very heavy toll. People will take full advantage of it, that's one of the reasons Richard owes me so
    much.
     
  30. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    I do hear you on that. Was given the run around quite a few times before. Think its a balance between being firm and driving people to hopelessness.
     
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  31. Jedi Dade

    Jedi Dade Sr Member

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    In my experience dumping on someone is rarely productive in any way. Richard owes me nothing, so I have no side in this at all past I believe Richard when he says he wants to make right all his debts... I base this on dealings I've had with him before he got buried in jobs and projects. Its a hard thing to say "no" I can't do that now, when somebody presents you with a really cool project. but at some point you really do have to say - nope can't do that right now and accept that you're gonna miss out. a desire to please can be your worst enemy.

    That being said you can't just let people walk over you. if he owes stuff he owes stuff - and I think he's already taken the arrows for it... more piling on does nobody any good especially if he's making the attempt to correct things.

    I sincerely hope that he settles his dealings satisfactorily, and decides to stick around... he's a talent that would be sorely missed IMHO.

    Jedi Dade
     
  32. 3d-builder

    3d-builder Sr Member

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    When your greed gets bigger than your talent ,your talent is never going to be big enough.......
    it's not going to be able to impress the people you owe anymore at some point, this is what
    happened here.
     
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  33. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    let's get past the name calling guys. he owes us stuff and $.

    lets just keep to that.
     
  34. sbaxter

    sbaxter Active Member

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    I don’t know that it’s greed, exactly, nor am I saying I know it it isn’t — I don’t know and cannot know. As with Jedi Dade, I haven’t had any dealings with REL, though I likely would have eagerly sent him money for the SS K’tinga and the Defiant if I’d had a prayer of being able to afford it. My experience with him over the years has been limited to a couple bouts of gushing over some of the jaw-dropping things he created or (as it turns out) he got created.


    The reason I say it might not be greed (or not just that) is that I sometimes get over-extended doing what I do well enough to be paid for it — graphic design and photography — but it typically happens when I’m doing stuff for free. In the majority of cases, I become aware of a need and volunteer my services. I’m doing things I want to do, and 90 percent of the time I’m not getting paid. Unfortunately, even with 20 years of experience and having well-earned knowledge that “under-promise and over-deliver” is the way to go, I am still sometimes guilty of the reverse. I tend to think of a job in terms of how long the actual work will take. In the heat of eagerness, I tend to forget that things rarely go smoothly and that problems will have to be solved with the job itself. Also, life gets in the way and I also need downtime (many design problems are solved away from the computer while I am doing something else), and I have a wife and two little boys who need and deserve my attention. I can usually manage this at my actual job, but only after much effort and experience as a guide. Away from work, it is tougher. And this extends to hobbies as well — I’ve got so many partially-completed models!


    I’m definitely not a businessman, and I no longer beat myself up over that. It doesn’t mean I don’t have valuable contributions I can make, or that I’m not talented or intelligent, but no one can do everything no matter how talented and/or intelligent they might be. There’s no question that Richard has talent. Some others may have created all or part of the things he presented as his work, but it certainly appears to be true that some of it was his own work. In any event, the things he presented were uniformly fantastic to my eyes and definitely worthy of purchase for those who could afford them. Perhaps what Richard needs is a partner or partners who can recognize the things he does well and help him manage the rest. I gather his wife was doing some of that, but her possibly being better than he is at that doesn’t mean she could do it all well enough to keep things running smoothly. I’m just saying that he has talent — not just for getting things built, but he also clearly had the ability to find and recognize others with the talent to do things at a high level as well. That’s a talent not everyone has — finding talent and harnessing it is a rare skill in and of itself (it’s one of the things that made Walt Disney such a genius, if I may offer a rarefied example). Going off nothing more than reading these threads, it seems Richard was good at recognizing talent and harnessing it, but the financials and managing time were much more of a challenge and that this was made worse by his apparent desire to make people think he could do it all himself. It just seems that there must be a way to hook the right people together with him and actually get things done, get himself and potential partners paid, get his customers the things that so excited them and made them throw their money at him, and everyone walk away happy. I have no idea who those people are, of course, I just know they must walk the planet. It would be shame if, in the end, Richard’s undeniable talents and abilities are squandered and customers are angered and everyone throws one another under the bus and no one is happy. It is certainly difficult to mend a reputation, but unlike some, Richard at least showed us things. I think most of us believe that, regardless of whether he did all the things he showed himself or he farmed some or all of it out to others, the things he showed us were real and they could be delivered under the right circumstances. I know that until I saw the things he offered, I didn’t even know it was possible for someone to make models at such a high level outside people working at such places as ILM. I hope he is able to right the ship. I believe people can change they way they do things and find a way to make things work for them. I hope he can do that, and find the right people to work with if that is, in fact, what he needs. I’d like to see more of the brilliant work he presented, and go back to just wishing I could afford to buy any of it. It would be a shame for all that ability to go to waste. Just my opinion I’ve formed over the last few months after learning that there were problems in the first place. I hope it is received by all parties in the same spirit it was intended.


    Qapla’

    SSB
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  35. Captain Finney

    Captain Finney Member

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    I'm also a client of REL who has is owed dollars, or a build.

    This history of this convoluted transaction has gone through some changes through the last five years, as the commission did not come to fruition based on the original agreement. But, here is the latest status. Again, this goes back five years...

    $500.00 deposit for the buildup of a 1/537 K'tinga ship, as the 'Quonos One'.

    As with others, the promise of the completed build continues with each inquiry from me. However, I've yet to see either the buildup, or a refund. What a shame..

    Captain Finney
     
  36. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I haven't heard from Richard recently. Good luck with getting what you are owed. Try to keep emailing him about the situation. That's what I try to do to stay current with him. I've got to send another today and will hopefully get a reply.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  37. Scott Graham

    Scott Graham Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The message above was conveyed to Richard and I got a response to that and an updated payment schedule. It's still a ways off, but things look up. Send him an email. I'm sure he'll get back to you right away.

    PM me if you need the email address.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  38. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    ^ same I think it will take a while. but at least I've gotten the kits back and that's a good start.

    have not seen the payment plan though. wonder if it's one with all names on it?



    james.
     
  39. Jedi Dade

    Jedi Dade Sr Member

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    I have emailed him a few times and he responds. He's still out there trying.

    Jedi Dade
     
  40. Captain Finney

    Captain Finney Member

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    While I doubt Mr. Long planned on fleecing folks from the git-go, I've got to say; he's been 'trying' to honor my transaction with him for over five years. Ain't gonna happen. I'm out a substantial amount of dough, and have been made more promises by him to make things right than I can count. I tip my hat to those who continue to pursue Richard Long with their 'hat in hand' in hopes that he honors your respective transactions. As for monies owed to me, Richard can do what he wants with it; keep it, pay off debts owed to others, or choke on it for all I care. Assuming that Richard was a man of integrity, (and I do), those days are long-gone.
     
  41. Proper

    Proper Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what all this is about. Without treading all the comments on this thread, can someone summarize what happened, please? I know Richard from his creation of the 1:350 Botany Bay prototype? What happened?

    EDIT: I've read this whole thread. I am owed nothing from Richard, so I have no stake in this. In my opinion, his actions are deplorable. Talk is cheap, and that's pretty much all people have got from him. What a con man!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  42. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    He didn't create the BB, I did, in about 4 hours. I made it much larger to go with my 66" TOS E. The model he sold was smaller than the one I designed. He asked me to print a 350 scale BB, his model came out much smaller than the one I printed for him. That happens with casting, things shrink.
    It was one of his early offerings and I was promised one of his D kits in exchange. I found out later from several sources he put that model into production. Regardless of what he says I've seen too many pics of kits and build ups. He told me he sold the BB molds to some guy, I don't know if that was the same guy that owns Fantastic Plastic. Or if it went through several hands.

    He did plan of fleecing me from very early on, or he would have made good on the BB deal. Since that was the first model I ever sent him at my expense.

    Who knows what Long's real intentions were, I talked to him a lot. He was able to keep his stories straight but not all the time. Who knows how often he conned people through his life, I'm sure this wasn't the first time he did this. I'll bet he considered it his big score.

    This hobby has a number of con men, since there isn't any way to police it. Even worse people don't talk, or change what they post. If more people would tell their stories we could at least expose some of these jerks.

    One good thing, the RPF has banned most of the guys who have questionable reps in the sci-fi hobby. But that's all they can do, threads like this are the only real tool we have to combat these con men.
     
  43. darthsideous

    darthsideous Active Member

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    That is exactly right, we gave him grace because he was so respected in the community. I'm out money for an 1/650 enterprise d kit. That is now 8 years past due. I'm still missing decals, paint masks, shuttle bay doors, and the internal armature that we're all paid for. I have contacted him over the years and he always said he'd get me the items, I even asked for him to refund part of my money but he never has nor have I ever received the missing parts. I have never held my breath. It is a lesson learned. No matter who it is, contact PayPal and get your money back.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  44. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    Just want to chime in with some good news.

    ive recently had contact with Richard via email and he says he will get to the refunds but it will take time. I know many will say they've heard that to a thousand times but at least he's making the effort to communicate.

    just my 2 cents.
     
  45. Proper

    Proper Well-Known Member

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    And after all these years, I can't believe that you believe him. How many years has it been, and how much more time does he need, and how many people has he "squirreled" over! Are you kidding? This is a PATTERN! Sorry to sound so harsh, but c'mon, man!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  46. tnaig001

    tnaig001 Active Member

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    I'm not planning my expenses based on that but I thought I would share that. intent to make good =\= to making good. I get that. :) but I would like to see him make good for his own sake.
     
  47. CutThumb

    CutThumb Sr Member

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    Hes made a reappearance over here with this commissioned build ; http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=75719. There is no denying his talent but his behaviour has possibly damaged a lot of things for him. I suspect he may be trying to make amends with people ,given the demand for studio scale modellers by certain parties. BUT good businesses don't like to associate with bad ones, it tarnishes their reputations. Any employer will look on somebody who takes payment for work, fails to deliver within the expected timetable and guidelines, and who then breaks all contact with them as potentially unemployable. Contracts are made to be fulfilled and breaking them does NOT endear people to further potential employment. Its the day of the internet and people know people and who can then read the threads, If he has any sense he should complete what he owes or pay it back but if it runs into thousands of dollars worth of work then it may be difficult. Its a shame, but its the truth, there are people here who deserve exactly what they get.
     
  48. swgeek

    swgeek Sr Member

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    I don't know Richard, and he owes me nothing. But from what I have read about him, I have serious doubts he had very much to do with the ship he's displaying, other than have someone else make the master.
     
  49. Tom1971

    Tom1971 Sr Member

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    Do these guys:

    http://www.modelermagic.com/?cat=2595

    know how much this guy owes people??? Maybe someone should tell them. I am tempted to do it myself but I don't know the whole story, I am not involved, and I don't know his relationship with modelermagic?????

    Thoughts???


    Tom
     
  50. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    Oh. They know. They have been around since the beginning. Theres alot of BS going on with all these guys.
     

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