Adam Savage On Topic Of Recasting

[Guan Thwei]

Okay for those of you who watch Mythbusters would know Adam Savage from the show. He is a prop builder and have worked on such films like His model work has appeared in major films, including Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones and The Matrix Reloaded. He is also a member of the RPF as well and has been contributing some advice to others like us who wants to build certain props. He talks about recasting and gives examples on what he has experienced through his role in the FX industry. I thought it was a very interesting video.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKPJzuVsE1M&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]

 

[TriLaser]

They raised a very good point there i thought. Saying that when someone makes a movie accurate replica from scratch then sells it on and someone else re-casts it that the maker really cant say anything seeing that they didn't get permission from a studio to make the replica in the first place. As they said in the video, grey areas all round. 

 

[wonko]

I watched that a while back on the RPF, and thought they made good points.  I think there's always gonna be some grey areas when it comes to recasting.

Brian

 

[Guan Thwei]

I just thought that as someone like Adam Savage is totally one of us and still gets on the other side of the hobby by actually working in the field like our friend ptgreek. I think that him touching on this subject is definitely a huge grey area. FOX allows us to do this hobby and bless them for doing so that way we can appreciate the character that they financially supported as a project. I mean the video pretty much speaks for itself in point and purpose.

 

[Usurper]

You know , something people ALWAYS hark back to is, " you did not get permission to copy the likeness from the studio" 

and?

Copying a likeness, and throwing something someone else made into silicone or plaster or whatever is completely different.

Now yeah there ARE alot of grey areas, but you should still look at it like this, "physical items you have, if you did not sculpt it, or do not have permission, do not recast it "  that is the ruling here, and pretty simple, the details and grey areas of studios owning the likeness are a different topic on the same subject. ( if that makes sense )

Its good that Adam stated several times that he is happy to purchase items from people who obviously worked hard to create great items.

And at the end of the day, recasts are smaller less detailed versions of the original piece.  I am glad the lair has a no tolerance policy, as i am guessing it has stopped alot of people trying to use grey areas as loopholes.

It is great that Fox allow us to copy the likeness, but they have known about us since the old lair if i recall, and lets face it, the costumes created here and going to cons/meeting arnie/dvd releases etc etc , have only raised the profile of their creature, and  publicity is always good for sales, and keeping the creature alive for films like the AVP films and Predators.

 

[A Hunters Moon]

Totally agree Lee. 


People need to understand the subtleties and differences between what we do and what recasters do however.  We as a community pay ohmage to a fantastic creature we all love through our own art.  We go out of our way to draw, paint, sculpt, and produce similar items out of that love.  The few of us who do sell these items do so to recoup whats spent on materials and aren't in it to get filthy rich. 

Recasters on the other hand put in zero work and do it strictly for the money.  They take an item they have nooothing invested in, fan or studio made, mold it and slap it up to sell.  Unlike our creations their items are exact duplicates in ever way.  They do not spend days filing through screen captures.  They do not spend weeks sculpting items and therefore have no love of the creature or respect for the artists involved.

You can argue semantics or gray areas all you want but those are the differences and those are the reasons why recasting is wrong.  Period.

 

[ptgreek]

Just don't recast.. No good ever comes out of it

 

[TriLaser]

I totally agree with you guys. Having someone recast and sell your work must be very frustrating. But i will have to say that i have a few recasts in my collection (as im sure a lot of people on here do) and that's because im really not going to pay for something so expensive (i.e sideshow) that maybe the paint job is not worth the price you pay. Rather do it myself. I personally would never recast someone else work because i know they have put a lot of work into them. But buying what's already out there... well, that's for a different topic i think.

 

[Usurper]

So you basically support recasters !

Well I will not deal with anyone who recasts or supports them.
And don't get me started on " but buying what's already out there... Well, that's for a different topic I think."

Short sighted comments like that will continue to kill off and make talent leave the prop making hobby.

 

[TriLaser]

Sigh.. Whatever mate.

 

[Usurper]

Sigh all you want, you are fumbling around in a topic that's been gone over many many times, you have your opinion and I have mine. Don't expect me to accept actions born out of greed. When I have seen friends have others stand on their shoulders and try to pass off their work as their own.

Oh and 2nd I ain't your mate.

 

[TriLaser]

So your basically saying that ANYONE who has bought a recast who is on the lair or RPF or where ever is supporting recasters yeah? Lets go ahead a say that they are also funding crime and terrorism as well shall we? Well not dealing with anyone who has recasts is your problem mate. Personally i think your blowing what i said way out of proportion.

 

[Usurper]

Yes if you buy recasts you are supporting recasters. It's not hard to understand.

And lol Are you high?
Linking recasting to terrorism lmfao.

Not dealing with recasters or people who use them is far from a problem for me, it's a very easy choice.

I'm now blowin anything out of proportion, you support them I don't , and whether you like it or not the forums rules are strict on the reselling of them, and even if you are caught off the board selling them, your membership can be terminated.
but being as you have come out about your support I guess it's easier for the staff to keep a eye on things lol.

 

[the eldest]

Stayed away from this topic since I joined the lair. But, although I disagree with recasting somebody's work , without permission, how many members own a DVD copy or a peer to peer piece of software or music, even a lookie lookie Rolex or Gucci handbag? Are we not accepting copies of originals without permission when it suits us? Or is it ok to rip off million pound companies?
Just my 2p's worth.

 

[Klwl]

I admit I have a recasted alien piece in my collection.  The wife bought it in mexico as a surprise to me not knowing nor did I at the time.  It happens you inadvertantly buy a piece that has been recasted butto openly state you continue to buy recasted pieces flat out baffles me especially considering your previous comment about how you agreee with how frustrated sculptors or artists are having their pieces recasted????

Really?  What did you expect ?

 

[Klwl]

Stayed away from this topic since I joined the lair. But, although I disagree with recasting somebody's work , without permission, how many members own a DVD copy or a peer to peer piece of software or music, even a lookie lookie Rolex or Gucci handbag? Are we not accepting copies of originals without permission when it suits us? Or is it ok to rip off million pound companies?
Just my 2p's worth.

copyng a movie, or music is constituted as piracy not recasting and is against the law.  2 seperate entities altogether

 

[the eldest]

Agree with that, kiwi. But how is it a different thing? A copy of one of lee's masks is a copy and takes money from his pocket. A copy of George Michaelmas latest album is a copy and takes money from his pocket. That makes both things wrong, whether is against the law or not. Be honest, kiwi, are you telling me you don't have a copy of anything. Music, film, watch etc etc. it's the way of the world. Everyone knows you only get what you pay for and if people are prepared to pay less for an inferior product, that's their choice. Zero tolerance on the lair is the right way to go but it won't stop recasting.
p.s sorry to use you as an example, lee.

 

[sulaco1967]

Heaven help the guy who joins the lair and gets a tad mixed up and instead of plasmacaster calls himself the Recaster lol..

 

[Guan Thwei]

I know I will never buy a recast mainly because I have tried to learn more about prop collecting and what constitutes a copy, a fake, or a legitimized actual piece from the original studio or artist that had help making it. Mainly because I want nothing less other than the real thing for mainly two reasons 1. It does support the project in order to fund more variants of the same idea or character 2. Expands the possibility of a different project that we also may like as well from the same artist. I would very much would like nothing better than an original piece from the Predator license/franchise because I'm just a fanboy like that. With things like eBay selling would could very possibly be nothing, but recasts all over the place. You better show me the number on the back if is from a certain company or where the origins from the piece came from and if you can not provide me with that information or just refuse to answer those questions then I will not buy it regardless on how cheap it is.

 

[the eldest]

Another thing just occurred to me. The whole idea of the lair ( I'm assuming ) is to keep the predator theme alive, by building, sculpting costumes to bring the predator to the general public.
If the only way members can do this is by buying original pieces from sculptors here, there would be vastly fewer members enjoying this hobby. I know the answer is going to be, sculpt it yourself if you can't afford the price, but some people, myself included, have neither the time nor money to do so.
We need to be careful not to make this an elitist thing. I would love a couple of grand spare, to be able to buy top notch items from the best sculptors, but I don't. So if buying something from fleabay that may be a recast means I'm a step closer to completing my dream, then I'm sorry for that. But, I wouldn't try and pass it off on here as my own either.