Ackbar actor Tim Rose TLJ disappointment

As far as JJ goes, I don't think he respected the characters either. Everyone wanted to see Luke and Han back together again in at least one major scene.

Harrison Ford has been wanting them to kill off Han for years. They needed a mentor-ish like character to kill off, so they picked him, and Harrison got his wish.

Any number of Lucasarts game or Star Wars novels would have made FAR better stories than having a 3rd "death star" with no explanation for where the resources came from, no glimpse of what the "New Republic" is even about (how odd that Leia seems to be an outlier when she helped create it and make it possible) before it's blasted into space. No idea in TLJ who the heck Snoke is/was or where he came from and why he seems to have Emperor like Sith powers. It's all just filler CRAP to have an excuse to have lightsaber battles and blaster fire. And yet the masses eat it up ANYWAY.

Shall we have a gander at the very many super weapons of the EU? There's been 25 planet destroying/devastating superweapons, only 4 of those belong to canon. Which means the EU had 21 superweapons........ouch:sick:

Wait, do you mean you want politics in Star Wars? Because the last time we got a glimpse into what went on in the ruling government that didn't fly too well with fans.

And what about Snoke and no backstory. Uh, I seem to remember an Emperor who didn't get a whole lot of exposition. Like we never found out he was a SIth or learned his name, heck his first name isn't even given in any of the films or The Clone Wars. And when we finally see him in the flesh, he's shootin' lightning out freakin' fingertips! Wow, that came out of the left field.
 
My one and only real complaint with the sequels is what they did with Luke. I think they could have done a similar story, but have Luke with at least one or two fully trained Jedi to show he actually did something since ROTJ. They could even kill them off immediately in an attack, just show he did something with his life. Then in TLJ, don't make Luke be a total d*ck. There are ways they could have handled that to make him say he feels he's doing more harm than good without the way they went about it. I don't think Lucas' Luke would ever cut off his friends and family from contact. Even if he was keeping his Force contact at a minimum he would still let Leia find him. I would even accept Rey's mysterious two day Force mastery if they just hadn't totally ruined Luke. I mean I've read the worst of the worst EU novels and even they didn't mess up SW that bad! I think they should have kept Luke around and if they really had to kill him off, do it in the third movie and have him go out in a blaze of glory not the crap "Oh no he used too much Force!" way we got.

I mean they do tell us that Luke was training a new generation of Jedi. So you'd rather them show vs tell?

You want to know what Lucas's Luke was? This was George Lucas's Luke. "...Luke was being described as a Col. Kurtz type hiding from the world in a cave... I got a George “Fabulouso” on it to boot.”
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I didn't know any of this before, but I wanted to point out that Tim Rose was only part of bringing Admiral Ackbar to life on screen. He was just the puppeteer. Ackbar was voiced by Erik Bauersfeld in ROTJ and TFA, and he passed away in 2016.
I'd argue that his voice and look are a bigger part of what made him memorable than the puppeteer that moved his mouth and face and whatever. So Rose taking ownership of the character, especially the famous "it's a trap" line, seems disingenuous, since he didn't give voice to it on screen, and as far as I know, didn't design the look of the character either.
 
Harrison Ford has been wanting them to kill off Han for years. They needed a mentor-ish like character to kill off, so they picked him, and Harrison got his wish.

I don't really have a problem with them killing Han off. I'm glad Harrison Ford was in it at all. I think what I actually said was that we all wanted to see the 'gang get back together'. In other words, have a script with Luke missing so he never sees Han again SUCKED. JJ admitted this was because he had no idea what do with Luke (as he would 'steal' every scene he was in). That's a load of crap. They didn't know what to do? How about asking George Lucas? He had an outline of what he wanted and they all threw it in the trash. I am disappointed in Lucas for not making having some measure of control over the final sequels as part of the sale. He literally sold his own series out for money.

Shall we have a gander at the very many super weapons of the EU? There's been 25 planet destroying/devastating superweapons, only 4 of those belong to canon. Which means the EU had 21 superweapons........ouch:sick:

I didn't say everything every single person wrote was any good. You're taking it to the extreme to try and make this garbage look good and it doesn't work. THREE 'DEATH STARS' in FOUR linear time movies is RIDICULOUS. Look at the plot to Jedi Academy even. Luke has a school. He's not a puss. There's an actual threat to the Jedi involving a Sith artifact. Luke plays a part, but is not the focus of the story, etc. How is it a gaming team has a better idea than JJ Abrams? Maybe trying to do Star Trek and Star Wars was too much for the guy. But then he did blow up Vulcan in Star Trek so he clearly enjoys blowing things up.

Wait, do you mean you want politics in Star Wars? Because the last time we got a glimpse into what went on in the ruling government that didn't fly too well with fans.

No, I mean showing a glimpse of it. Like a communication between Leia and it could say a lot in one swipe. The original Star Wars didn't imply these things nor did we need to know about them. But 30+ years have gone by since ROTJ and people would be naturally curious to know WTF happened during that time and having some ultra powerful new Sith master come out of NOWHERE when we know the "two" are BOTH dead is irritating to say the least. The Empire should be in chaos. Instead, it's got better tech and a more powerful weapon than the galaxy has EVER seen. Even the ancient Sith couldn't blow up an entire solar system in one shot. The new movies tell us almost NOTHING in background. A few lines even would say something. The truth is that when you don't have a clue, you just AVOID and that's what both JJ and Rian did, avoid. What's the secret behind Rey's parentage. They're nobodies. LOL. Who is Snoke? He's DEAD. That's all you need to know. Great.

And what about Snoke and no backstory. Uh, I seem to remember an Emperor who didn't get a whole lot of exposition. Like we never found out he was a SIth or learned his name, heck his first name isn't even given in any of the films or The Clone Wars. And when we finally see him in the flesh, he's shootin' lightning out freakin' fingertips! Wow, that came out of the left field.

Star Wars was a bit of mystery when it came out. The problem is that we KNOW those things now and Snoke doesn't really fit unless he's an ancient surviving Sith lord hiding in the shadows, biding his time. If he were Darth Plagueis who somehow survived, it might make some sense, but we never find that out. Instead we get, "I feel purpose" and he's sliced in two.... (which admittedly was funny, but I wasn't expecting TLJ to be a comedy. Between that scene and Luke drinking milk straight out of the tit of a giant beast, I thought the movie was a comedy spoof on the order of Spaceballs. Luke dying of using force powers for too long was a new one too. I guess Yoda didn't warn Luke to appear as a hologram for too long or he'll die of lack of air in-between planets..... But go ahead and make an excuse for that nonsense too. I wouldn't be shocked if JJ reverses half of what you think in the next movie since I think Rian did things just to spite JJ and the reverse will be true too.
 
I don't really have a problem with them killing Han off. I'm glad Harrison Ford was in it at all. I think what I actually said was that we all wanted to see the 'gang get back together'. In other words, have a script with Luke missing so he never sees Han again SUCKED. JJ admitted this was because he had no idea what do with Luke (as he would 'steal' every scene he was in). That's a load of crap. They didn't know what to do? How about asking George Lucas? He had an outline of what he wanted and they all threw it in the trash. I am disappointed in Lucas for not making having some measure of control over the final sequels as part of the sale. He literally sold his own series out for money.



I didn't say everything every single person wrote was any good. You're taking it to the extreme to try and make this garbage look good and it doesn't work. THREE 'DEATH STARS' in FOUR linear time movies is RIDICULOUS. Look at the plot to Jedi Academy even. Luke has a school. He's not a puss. There's an actual threat to the Jedi involving a Sith artifact. Luke plays a part, but is not the focus of the story, etc. How is it a gaming team has a better idea than JJ Abrams? Maybe trying to do Star Trek and Star Wars was too much for the guy. But then he did blow up Vulcan in Star Trek so he clearly enjoys blowing things up.



No, I mean showing a glimpse of it. Like a communication between Leia and it could say a lot in one swipe. The original Star Wars didn't imply these things nor did we need to know about them. But 30+ years have gone by since ROTJ and people would be naturally curious to know WTF happened during that time and having some ultra powerful new Sith master come out of NOWHERE when we know the "two" are BOTH dead is irritating to say the least. The Empire should be in chaos. Instead, it's got better tech and a more powerful weapon than the galaxy has EVER seen. Even the ancient Sith couldn't blow up an entire solar system in one shot. The new movies tell us almost NOTHING in background. A few lines even would say something. The truth is that when you don't have a clue, you just AVOID and that's what both JJ and Rian did, avoid. What's the secret behind Rey's parentage. They're nobodies. LOL. Who is Snoke? He's DEAD. That's all you need to know. Great.



Star Wars was a bit of mystery when it came out. The problem is that we KNOW those things now and Snoke doesn't really fit unless he's an ancient surviving Sith lord hiding in the shadows, biding his time. If he were Darth Plagueis who somehow survived, it might make some sense, but we never find that out. Instead we get, "I feel purpose" and he's sliced in two.... (which admittedly was funny, but I wasn't expecting TLJ to be a comedy. Between that scene and Luke drinking milk straight out of the tit of a giant beast, I thought the movie was a comedy spoof on the order of Spaceballs. Luke dying of using force powers for too long was a new one too. I guess Yoda didn't warn Luke to appear as a hologram for too long or he'll die of lack of air in-between planets..... But go ahead and make an excuse for that nonsense too. I wouldn't be shocked if JJ reverses half of what you think in the next movie since I think Rian did things just to spite JJ and the reverse will be true too.

Why don't you come over to this thread so we don't derail this one?:D Lets talk all things Star Wars
 
And what about Snoke and no backstory. Uh, I seem to remember an Emperor who didn't get a whole lot of exposition. Like we never found out he was a SIth or learned his name, heck his first name isn't even given in any of the films or The Clone Wars. And when we finally see him in the flesh, he's shootin' lightning out freakin' fingertips! Wow, that came out of the left field.

We knew Vader was subservient to him, so that said everything. Snoke just kind of shows up and they never give us any information about why would should be worried about him. He shows up with equipment styled after the Empire to boot. It seems like there's a back story that they didn't care to tell us about. That's what the crawl is for. It could have said "A former servant of the Empire returns from the Unknown Regions with a massive fleet..." You know just anything to give us a tidbit of back story.
 
I mean they do tell us that Luke was training a new generation of Jedi. So you'd rather them show vs tell?

You want to know what Lucas's Luke was? This was George Lucas's Luke. "...Luke was being described as a Col. Kurtz type hiding from the world in a cave... I got a George “Fabulouso” on it to boot.”
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We've all heard that Lucas said Luke would be on an island in a cave. Whether that would have followed TLJ I don't know. The fact that Mark Hamill even initially came out and said the TLJ Luke was not Lucas' Luke says more to me. So I don't know if they took anything beyond the island and cave for TLJ.
 
I think Luke was right to not believe in either side in the end (they cause more violence, collateral damage and general problems for "normal" non-force users in the galaxy than any religion we've ever seen). The worst part was Rey could have ended it all by going with Kylo (no more Sith, no more Jedi) and she could temper his behavior. But then we'd have no 3rd installment.... It's a trap!

Honestly, I hated The Force Awakens 10x more than The Last Jedi. I think Rian was forced to work with a bad setup. He might not have fully gotten "Star Wars" but I have to give him credit for at least trying something DIFFERENT. JJ just rehashed the same damn Episode IV + Episode VI combination we've already seen! Do you think it would have mattered if Admiral Calimari got to say a bigger line in TLJ to fix all that? "It's an attack!" comes to mind right before he's deep fried Admiral Calimari.... :D (see I"m trying to steer it back on topic... ;) )

What about that plastic-faced alien 'Nien Nunb' ? (god Lucas really couldn't make up names) Was that just a poor budget in ROTJ (they spent too much on fake looking Teddy Bear Ewoks?) or was there a reason they thought they should both make someone plastic-looking fake and mock Asians with at the same time? Was he crying under that mask for not getting a bigger part too? At least Ming the Merciless looked a bit more believable in Flash Gordon (well at least like the comic books) and they still pegged it as racist. Speaking of Ming, when I read Max Von Sydow was going to be in The Force Awakens, I somehow assumed he'd be the "Big Bad" and he got a total crap part too in The Force Awakens too (dead in the first five minutes). Oh how I hate so much of that movie (other than Daisy Ridley...god I watch even bad movies to see her). How did they get Luke's lightsaber? Isn't Cloud City around a gas giant? It sure looked like it.... No explanation. They just wanted Rey to have it.
 
We knew Vader was subservient to him, so that said everything. Snoke just kind of shows up and they never give us any information about why would should be worried about him. He shows up with equipment styled after the Empire to boot. It seems like there's a back story that they didn't care to tell us about. That's what the crawl is for. It could have said "A former servant of the Empire returns from the Unknown Regions with a massive fleet..." You know just anything to give us a tidbit of back story.

So Vader being subservient to the Emperor says everything? But Ben Solo, Darth Vader's grandson being subservient to Snoke doesn't say everything?

Um, the title crawl gives us some of the information you seek.

-Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts....-


We've all heard that Lucas said Luke would be on an island in a cave. Whether that would have followed TLJ I don't know. The fact that Mark Hamill even initially came out and said the TLJ Luke was not Lucas' Luke says more to me. So I don't know if they took anything beyond the island and cave for TLJ.

Lucas's story revolved around a young female hero name Kira who would have to convince an exiled Luke to train her, and come back from his exile. To rediscover his vitality, if I remember, is how Doug Chiang put it.
 
I think Luke was right to not believe in either side in the end (they cause more violence, collateral damage and general problems for "normal" non-force users in the galaxy than any religion we've ever seen). The worst part was Rey could have ended it all by going with Kylo (no more Sith, no more Jedi) and she could temper his behavior. But then we'd have no 3rd installment.... It's a trap!

Honestly, I hated The Force Awakens 10x more than The Last Jedi. I think Rian was forced to work with a bad setup. He might not have fully gotten "Star Wars" but I have to give him credit for at least trying something DIFFERENT. JJ just rehashed the same damn Episode IV + Episode VI combination we've already seen! Do you think it would have mattered if Admiral Calimari got to say a bigger line in TLJ to fix all that? "It's an attack!" comes to mind right before he's deep fried Admiral Calimari.... :D (see I"m trying to steer it back on topic... ;) )

What about that plastic-faced alien 'Nien Nunb' ? (god Lucas really couldn't make up names) Was that just a poor budget in ROTJ (they spent too much on fake looking Teddy Bear Ewoks?) or was there a reason they thought they should both make someone plastic-looking fake and mock Asians with at the same time? Was he crying under that mask for not getting a bigger part too? At least Ming the Merciless looked a bit more believable in Flash Gordon (well at least like the comic books) and they still pegged it as racist. Speaking of Ming, when I read Max Von Sydow was going to be in The Force Awakens, I somehow assumed he'd be the "Big Bad" and he got a total crap part too in The Force Awakens too (dead in the first five minutes). Oh how I hate so much of that movie (other than Daisy Ridley...god I watch even bad movies to see her). How did they get Luke's lightsaber? Isn't Cloud City around a gas giant? It sure looked like it.... No explanation. They just wanted Rey to have it.

I've read it several places that JJ said that they consciously made TFA to be a retelling of the 3 previous films. So when I hear people complain that it was just copy of IV-VI.....well that was intentional.

And as far as the Skywalker lightsaber goes...

"I've had this for ages...kept it locked away."
"Where'd you get that?"
"A good question for another time."

Clearly Lucasfilm isn't ready to tell that story yet.
 
One can read a lot into that interview, and it surprised me that Tim Rose actually said "..waiting 30 years to reprise Ackbar..." when noone actually expected a prequel trilogy to happen. That being said, he is an artist, an actor, so a little additional drama may be allowed.

What I do not understand is the fervent defending of bad writing and dramaturgy by ST "fans". As with a lot of other OT characters that showed up in the ST, Ackbar has a more than well established background story right in the middle ot the Star Wars universe. We KNOW he is an expert tactician and warrior. The audience has an emotional connection to him. A survivor of the Battle over Endor. A veteran.

Holdo? Nothing of the aforementioned. So, why the need for another character? Has that been answered anywhere?

If we´d take the story and swap the character names out with "neutral" descriptions, it should become more than clear that some elements in the story do not make any sense or are simply unbelievable. Yes, someone who´s never seen a Star Wars movie may react differently becaue all of the elemtns are new to him or her, but how many people are left who do not know anyhting about Star Wars, except for young children? And are there parents crazy enough to show them TLJ as an entry point to Star Wars? I think not.
 
I've read it several places that JJ said that they consciously made TFA to be a retelling of the 3 previous films. So when I hear people complain that it was just copy of IV-VI.....well that was intentional.

And as far as the Skywalker lightsaber goes...

"I've had this for ages...kept it locked away."
"Where'd you get that?"
"A good question for another time."

Clearly Lucasfilm isn't ready to tell that story yet.

Intentionally had no new ideas... I remember him saying he as going to turn it down when someone reminded him he could do anything he wanted. And he must have thought, I'll just plagiarize, but add a bit of diversity! The sad thing is how it worked anyway....

Not ready to tell the story? More like they couldn't think of a good answer so they put that there as a dangling thread that will never be addressed again. Maybe with all those new force powers she just plucked it out of space time.... :unsure:
 
Woah.

Doomcock has ratcheted up the Ackbar issue, declaring Ackbar to be, like cotton, “the fabric of our lives”.

I usually nod my head in agreement with this guy but this is all a bit much, in my humble opinion. Apparently, one must have “Star Wars” items “...in every room of [my] home...” in order to be true fan. Alright, if I must; however, my wife is going to divorce me when I decide that having “Star Wars” posters, props, models, and action figures in ALL of the rooms of our home is the hill that I have chosen to defend, and most likely die upon. My fandom can’t repel power of her magnitude!

 
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So Vader being subservient to the Emperor says everything? But Ben Solo, Darth Vader's grandson being subservient to Snoke doesn't say everything?

Vader helps destroy a planet, you know at that point he helped hunt down the Jedi, he kills Obi Wan, he chokes anyone who fails him. We know he's a bad dude at that point. Kylo Ren, just throws hissy fits when things don't go his way and wrecks equipment. Some poor maintenance guy or girl has to keep coming in and replacing that stuff!
 
Intentionally had no new ideas... I remember him saying he as going to turn it down when someone reminded him he could do anything he wanted. And he must have thought, I'll just plagiarize, but add a bit of diversity! The sad thing is how it worked anyway....

Not ready to tell the story? More like they couldn't think of a good answer so they put that there as a dangling thread that will never be addressed again. Maybe with all those new force powers she just plucked it out of space time.... :unsure:

TFA had to do 2 things. Bring back fans that had been soured by the Prequels. And act as an introduction to Star Wars to new people just coming in. What better way than to basically recap the last trilogy? Kinda catching everyone up to speed, so to speak.

Maz doesn't have Force powers .........
 
Vader helps destroy a planet, you know at that point he helped hunt down the Jedi, he kills Obi Wan, he chokes anyone who fails him. We know he's a bad dude at that point. Kylo Ren, just throws hissy fits when things don't go his way and wrecks equipment. Some poor maintenance guy or girl has to keep coming in and replacing that stuff!

And Ben kills an innocent old man in cold blood, "freezes" a blaster bolt in mid-air, kills his father...........and keeps the ashes of his enemies......
kylo-ren-ashes-helmet.jpg
 
I like Star Wars better as a trilogy rather than a trilogy of trilogies. Just my take on it.

While I don't agree with all of his take on the new material (Rogue One is overrated and unnecessary in my opinion) but I think he brings up some great points. Plus I gave up interest in the expanded material back in 2000 so none of that has any influence on me with Star Wars.

 
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TFA had to do 2 things. Bring back fans that had been soured by the Prequels.

Instead, it 'soured' fans that were OK with the prequels (me being one of them). The prequels were far from being really 'great' but at least there wasn't another freaking Death Star assault in them.... (y)

And act as an introduction to Star Wars to new people just coming in. What better way than to basically recap the last trilogy?

How about like ANY OTHER WAY? Want a recap? Watch the old movies! They're on Blu-Ray for goodness sake.... THAT is the best way to "recap" them not waste ONE of only SEVEN Star Wars movies at the time playing "recap" when the rest of us have waited 30 freaking years to find out WTF happened to Luke...only to find out he's in Ireland drinking milk from a giant beast's breasts.... To quote Biff Tannen from BTTF2 in a facetious way, "GREAT flick. Great friggin' flick!"

Maz doesn't have Force powers .........

Just because she says she's no Jedi doesn't mean she doesn't have force sensitivity or able to use the force in some way. The movie really doesn't say who she is or what she can do. The Wookieepedia certainly thinks she can use the force (to find relics if nothing else). (See Maz Kanata) (See also Maz Kanata's Big Secret Was Just Revealed By A Star Wars Deleted Scene)
 
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