Accident on the set of Rust.

[JPH]

This thread has reminded me why I've only had one person on ignore since joining the RPF. After 3 years I took him off the list and within 2 weeks he's right back where he belongs.

Wow! That reminds me of a Last Jedi thread where I used a very vocal Anti-Mary Sue defender's * OWN arguments to nuke his very argument.

It was so clear that his argument was the ultimate anti-argument that my eyes watered, I shook holding back the laughter. People even asked me if someone had died. I nearly had to crawl to the bathroom to pee!

The thread went silent for a day or two because of the K O.

Man, I wish I could bottle those endorphins!

And the laughter was a great ab workout.

Good times.

************

It is sad that the Basic Gun Safety Crowd was being met by such resistance and baseless excuses as chronicled on this thread. News article are/were looking for a scapegoat. I am glad to see the truth coming out.

Unlike the Last Jedi thread though, someone died. I hope folks learned something that might save someone's life before hitting ignore.

 

[dascoyne]

I’m willing to bet 50% or more of actors/actresses have never done a gun inspection for themselves in the past, and always trusted the people in place who handed them the gun and told them it was safe. I am also willing to guarantee that 100% of them will check everything from this point, as they will be scared to death that this could happen to them.

Now that is what I would consider a potential positive coming from this. I think this should give pause, not only to actors, but to the general public to learn to treat firearms responsibly. It only takes the occasional lunkhead that harms themselves or others to mischaracterize an entire community of responsible gun owners in the public eye.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I hadn't heard this was a homicide investigation.

 

[Moviefreak]

Wow! That reminds me of a Last Jedi thread where I used a very vocal Anti-Mary Sue defender's * OWN arguments to nuke his very argument.

It was so clear that his argument was the ultimate anti-argument that my eyes watered, I shook holding back the laughter. People even asked me if someone had died. I nearly had to crawl to the bathroom to pee!

The thread went silent for a day or two because of the K O.

Man, I wish I could bottle those endorphins!

And the laughter was a great ab workout.

Good times.

************

What is your obsession in arguing with the aim to claim you are “taking the win” or scoring “the KO”?

You seem to want to claim that constantly. And then you top it off with the wish to “bottle that feeling”? I mean, really? Are you really that desperate to feel good about yourself? Do you not have enough wins elsewhere in life?

Just because people stop interacting with you doesn’t mean they submit and “give in” because you were too witty for them - they just chose to stop wasting the effort. A healthy debate is when both sides can say their points, both sides listen and understand what the other might have to say, and walk away with a new outlook. But your style is far from healthy debating. You have no intention of listening at all, and in your mind, your opinion is all that matters. And heaven forbid, the other person responds with a different view, you start to belittle them, think you are embarrassing them, and go harder to try to win some fictitious competition.

Now I’m out! Don’t bother responding or trying to get the final word to “prove you won”. I’m not going to respond. It isn’t because I think you beat me, but because I am not looking to prove something to myself or compensate for something lacking in my life by having to stroke my own ego and be the “biggest winner” making knock outs. I have plenty of wins going for me and I’d rather focus my energy towards those blessings.

Peace!

 

[AJTaliesen]

I’m willing to bet 50% or more of actors/actresses have never done a gun inspection for themselves in the past, and always trusted the people in place who handed them the gun and told them it was safe. I am also willing to guarantee that 100% of them will check everything from this point, as they will be scared to death that this could happen to them.

Maybe, but not anywhere I was working. Actors were all told, repeatedly, that they would be fired, first offense, if caught ignoring safety regulations. Of course we never had any big stars, and that thread probably wouldn't have been carried out if the offender was also executive producer.



I've seen WAY too many people this week say things like "He shouldn't have to check" or "it's not his job, that's what the armorer is for, why even have them if you can't trust them to check for the actor" or even "The actor is too busy."

I'm not interested in retribution, that doesn't bring anyone back, but at the very least I hope that the consequences are enough to stop people from saying things like that again.

There is ALWAYS time to check and it's always your job if you touch one. I've repeated this and I imagine I will repeat it again in the coming days, but the whole "point" is so that one person alone being negligent can't cause this. Multiple people have to screw up for accidents like this to be possible. And the consequences need to be such that in the future everyone will MAKE time for this.

 

[JoeG]

Multiple people have to screw up for accidents like this to be possible.

And that's exactly what happened here. Multiple people grew complacent and screwed up. Where this thread went into the shitter is where a few people decided to draw conclusions before hardly any of the facts were available due to obviously transparent personal political beliefs.

 

[Moviefreak]

Maybe, but not anywhere I was working. Actors were all told, repeatedly, that they would be fired, first offense, if caught ignoring safety regulations. Of course we never had any big stars, and that thread probably wouldn't have been carried out if the offender was also executive producer.



I've seen WAY too many people this week say things like "He shouldn't have to check" or "it's not his job, that's what the armorer is for, why even have them if you can't trust them to check for the actor" or even "The actor is too busy."

I'm not interested in retribution, that doesn't bring anyone back, but at the very least I hope that the consequences are enough to stop people from saying things like that again.

There is ALWAYS time to check and it's always your job if you touch one. I've repeated this and I imagine I will repeat it again in the coming days, but the whole "point" is so that one person alone being negligent can't cause this. Multiple people have to screw up for accidents like this to be possible. And the consequences need to be such that in the future everyone will MAKE time for this.

I wholeheartedly agree with those last few lines! You’ve nailed it!

 

[robstyle]

"live" ammunition information released stating it was found in a fanny pack. Live is still not being made clear whether that means blank or otherwise.

Spent castings are also being mentioned.

It's not uncommon to scatter spent casings as props. Loose live blank rounds mixed with spent casings is a no no. But after reading up on others that passed on the film in question it seems the armorer was short staffed. Another instance prior mentioned that you know what you're going into and if you don't feel it's a job for you, don't accept the job, don't sign the contract.

There is also reports of leisure use of firearms sometime prior. This is something that will come up as if there was time for leisure involving said firearms there should have been time to secure any loose live and spent ammunition.

 

[gobler]

I hadn't heard this was a homicide investigation.

Any time there is an unnatural death it's considered a Homicide. That is basic police investigation. Each state has their own set of laws breaking down how a crime is defined. In this case New Mexico, this would be (unless there are circumstances we are unaware of) a Homicide with the potential of Manslaughter. There are levels of degrees to this.

 

[JPH]

What is your obsession in arguing with the aim to claim you are “taking the win” or scoring “the KO”?

You seem to want to claim that constantly. And then you top it off with the wish to “bottle that feeling”? I mean, really? Are you really that desperate to feel good about yourself? Do you not have enough wins elsewhere in life?

Just because people stop interacting with you doesn’t mean they submit and “give in” because you were too witty for them - they just chose to stop wasting the effort. A healthy debate is when both sides can say their points, both sides listen and understand what the other might have to say, and walk away with a new outlook. But your style is far from healthy debating. You have no intention of listening at all, and in your mind, your opinion is all that matters. And heaven forbid, the other person responds with a different view, you start to belittle them, think you are embarrassing them, and go harder to try to win some fictitious competition.

Now I’m out! Don’t bother responding or trying to get the final word to “prove you won”. I’m not going to respond. It isn’t because I think you beat me, but because I am not looking to prove something to myself or compensate for something lacking in my life by having to stroke my own ego and be the “biggest winner” making knock outs. I have plenty of wins going for me and I’d rather focus my energy towards those blessings.

Peace!

You want to comment about people, then get upset when they notice. Sheesh! Passive-aggressive much?

Im not the one making baseless claims or statistics, then getting upset for being called out.

People who are providing basic SAFETY knowledge in this thread have to deal with absolutely absurd claims, and then tantrums.

You already claimed you had me on "ignore...oops! Lets not point out that you said something untrue....AGAIN!?!?!

I am open to other people's opinions just dont claim straight up fantasy to be fact ESPECIALLY on things like GUN SAFETY. Thats how people get KILLED.

EDIT : How many "experts" dropped this thread because they weren't?

I dont call for threads to be locked because I got something wrong.

Someone died because Alec Baldwin clicked *ignore* over basic safety.

The person making stuff up has far more attention issues than the one who points it out.

 

[Moviefreak]

Any time there is an unnatural death it's considered a Homicide. That is basic police investigation. Each state has their own set of laws breaking down how a crime is defined. In this case New Mexico, this would be (unless there are circumstances we are unaware of) a Homicide with the potential of Manslaughter. There are levels of degrees to this.

It is going to be interesting to see how the legal system plays this out. I agree the manslaughter charge will most likely be used, but for how many people? The chain of people who dropped the ball are all complicit, just as much as AB, so will they charge the whole group of them is the question?

 

[dascoyne]

"live" ammunition information released stating it was found in a fanny pack. Live is still not being made clear whether that means blank or otherwise.

Spent castings are also being mentioned.

It's not uncommon to scatter spent casings as props. Loose live blank rounds mixed with spent casings is a no no. But after reading up on others that passed on the film in question it seems the armorer was short staffed. Another instance prior mentioned that you know what you're going into and if you don't feel it's a job for you, don't accept the job, don't sign the contract.

There is also reports of leisure use of firearms sometime prior. This is something that will come up as if there was time for leisure involving said firearms there should have been time to secure any loose live and spent ammunition.

I think it has been established that this "live" ammunition was not a blank but a real bullet. Blank ammunition can't shoot a wad through one person and injure someone behind them. Only a bullet can do that.

It's not a question of policing loose live ammunition on the set. As a rule there isn't supposed to be live ammunition anywhere near the set. Just the notion of leisure shooting on the set is a critical red flag.

 

[Pumpkinhead]

Is this new or part of the standard process?

I fixed it. Typed too quickly and left out the word SHOULD. I also removed NRA, any gun safety course would do.

 

[Pumpkinhead]

This thread has reminded me why I've only had one person on ignore since joining the RPF. After 3 years I took him off the list and within 2 weeks he's right back where he belongs.

Who gives a damn? No one.

 

[jusdrewit]

I thought I read somewhere the gun in question was being used for shooting practice during off hours which explains the real bullets being around the set. I think i also read the gun had misfired 3 times prior to the incident with AB, promoting a text from a crew member stating how unsafe the working conditions where

 

[Moviefreak]

This thread has reminded me why I've only had one person on ignore since joining the RPF. After 3 years I took him off the list and within 2 weeks he's right back where he belongs.

Update: I now have 2 on the ignore list.

It is a shame to have to block people but I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I have other more important distractions when going to bed.

 

[AJTaliesen]

It is going to be interesting to see how the legal system plays this out. I agree the manslaughter charge will most likely be used, but for how many people? The chain of people who dropped the ball are all complicit, just as much as AB, so will they charge the whole group of them is the question?

I could see involuntary, but I kind of hope they don't charge that. I'd rather see a lighter charge like negligence, rather than over charge and risk not guilty. And I would think at least the person who pulled the trigger and the person who picked up a loaded gun, handed it to someone else, AND declared it empty, all without bothering to check. That second person might even be the worst to me. As for whoever loaded a gun and left it lying around...I don't know what charge would be applicable to that, I would hope at least negligence. I really don't think we should say it's OK to do that.

As for whoever the person or people were who apparently said something along the lines of 'safety shmafety, no one has time for that, we're on a budget here!' I don't know if that's criminal or not, but it does warrant getting sued into poverty. At least to me.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Update: I now have 2 on the ignore list.

It is a shame to have to block people but I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I have other more important distractions when going to bed.

How ironic, I justed added my 2nd as well! It's funny how people "don't care" yet feel the need to post about it.
I've been on the RPF for almost 10 years and have yet to try and get a "win" from a conversation.

 

[JPH]

I fixed it. Typed too quickly and left out the word SHOULD. I also removed NRA, any gun safety course would do.

I remember Billy Crystal and Gregory Hines being interviewed for Running Scared. Besides commenting on how they made gunshot noises (some caught on film) when firing guns, they also talked about all the gun training they received before being allowed near a firearm. Two comedians, credible as all get out because they were properly trained.

Anyone who watched Captain Power, they would get shot at by marksmen who fired exploding balls at the armour-clad actors. There is actually a scene where Dunnigan getsshot in the butt and you can hear him yell, "ow!"

Kate Beckinsale, when Underworld came out, talking about her extensive weapon training in multiple interviews.

War of the World tv show, where Richard "Ironhorse" Chavez was one of the gun trainers on the set. He also acted in the show, but hearing how he trained the cast to go so far as to actually clear their own jammed weapons, calling for as much realism as possible! If your weapon jammed, the cameras kept rolling!

Give people more training than they need. It will pay off in the realism of your finished product!

Meanwhile, recently Bruce Willis made a movie about aliens, Breach, and all the guns' muzzleflash was SUUUUUPER FAKE-ARINO CGI.

Nothing cgi beats the realism of muzzle flash causing swirls in prior gunfire's smoke.

I hope this screw up doesnt cause a 180 in realism, it doesnt need to.

 

[robstyle]

I think it has been established that this "live" ammunition was not a blank but a real bullet. Blank ammunition can't shoot a wad through one person and injure someone behind them. Only a bullet can do that.

It's not a question of policing loose live ammunition on the set. As a rule there isn't supposed to be live ammunition anywhere near the set. Just the notion of leisure shooting on the set is a critical red flag.

The "live" ammunition is why I'm following the case so closely. There have been third party claims an actual bullet was involved. At the same time news media being what they are have been knowingly using the term "live ammunition" out of context with little to no clarity.

Was it confirmed the prior leisure shooting took place on set?