A quick question about recasting something (ethical?)
- Thread starter Atarian
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Jimbo890
Well-Known Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(creamedgeezer @ Apr 28 2006, 06:12 PM) [snapback]1234899[/snapback]</div>
I too have an ethical recast issue. As a non prop related hobby, I collect and restore vintage GIjOE action figures from the 1960's-1970's. [ActionMan to you UK folks] My favorite childhood toys. Unfortunately, many of them are in sorry shape some 40+ years later. There are some replacement body parts options, but the best would be molds made directly from some good body parts. Hands, forearms and feet mostly. I'd like to make these for my personal restoration purposes only, as I do not sell my GIjOEs. Also, I have a whole host of broken talker boxes, that need some small parts, ones that would be easy to cast in resin. [Did you know that in 1967, Hasbro put a recoil spring-powered ribbon based record player in the chest of GIjOE? And no batteries. Just pull his dog tag out different lenghts, and he says 8 different phrases.] Anyways, many of the talker box parts have never been replicated before. The only real way to do it, would be to recast, as a new version would not fit or function in the obsolete record player design. The replacment body parts, since Hasbro lost the original molds in a shipwreck, are no longer available. Even their anniversary replicas were not 100% interchangable with the vintage ones.
Oh, what to do.
I'm getting an original 1970's king head helium tank topper, more commonly known as the Burger King head from those creepy commercials. Am I allowed (if I can figure it out) to make copies of it since it is an original?
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I too have an ethical recast issue. As a non prop related hobby, I collect and restore vintage GIjOE action figures from the 1960's-1970's. [ActionMan to you UK folks] My favorite childhood toys. Unfortunately, many of them are in sorry shape some 40+ years later. There are some replacement body parts options, but the best would be molds made directly from some good body parts. Hands, forearms and feet mostly. I'd like to make these for my personal restoration purposes only, as I do not sell my GIjOEs. Also, I have a whole host of broken talker boxes, that need some small parts, ones that would be easy to cast in resin. [Did you know that in 1967, Hasbro put a recoil spring-powered ribbon based record player in the chest of GIjOE? And no batteries. Just pull his dog tag out different lenghts, and he says 8 different phrases.] Anyways, many of the talker box parts have never been replicated before. The only real way to do it, would be to recast, as a new version would not fit or function in the obsolete record player design. The replacment body parts, since Hasbro lost the original molds in a shipwreck, are no longer available. Even their anniversary replicas were not 100% interchangable with the vintage ones.
Oh, what to do.
id say yes to both.
the only real "hmm" area on this would be if you tried to pass the "new" gie joe stuff you made as vintage. that would be pretty crooked.
but, if you are just making new ones and selling em as new, or just refitting your old joes with the thing, go for it.
personally the kings head would be freaking hilarious to have, and i think since its from the 70s i doubt a company is making it now. no real recasting issue there.
just my 3 cents shy of a nickel
chris
the only real "hmm" area on this would be if you tried to pass the "new" gie joe stuff you made as vintage. that would be pretty crooked.
but, if you are just making new ones and selling em as new, or just refitting your old joes with the thing, go for it.
personally the kings head would be freaking hilarious to have, and i think since its from the 70s i doubt a company is making it now. no real recasting issue there.
just my 3 cents shy of a nickel
chris
Jimbo890
Well-Known Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hydin @ Apr 28 2006, 06:48 PM) [snapback]1234927[/snapback]</div>
The talker parts would be the only parts I would even consider selling. The body parts, most folks settle for canibalizing old donor Joes or buy Cotswold Elite Brigade parts. I collect the GIjOE figures but don't sell them, and the body parts would be for my personal use, as a repair option for me, instead of buying less than accurate replacements. Heck, I use to make spare parts from dowel rods. Did you know the thumbnails on a real GIjOE are on the wrong side of the thumb? But now, with RTV, and a good casting resin, the technology is here to do this.
Anyways, I agree 100% that trying to sell a replica parts as an original one is bad ju-ju.
The value between a talking figure and a broken one is massive. Many of these talker boxes were ignorantly disassembled in a vain effort to repair them, and now are a lost cause without repair and replacement parts.
The talker parts would be the only parts I would even consider selling. The body parts, most folks settle for canibalizing old donor Joes or buy Cotswold Elite Brigade parts. I collect the GIjOE figures but don't sell them, and the body parts would be for my personal use, as a repair option for me, instead of buying less than accurate replacements. Heck, I use to make spare parts from dowel rods. Did you know the thumbnails on a real GIjOE are on the wrong side of the thumb? But now, with RTV, and a good casting resin, the technology is here to do this.
Anyways, I agree 100% that trying to sell a replica parts as an original one is bad ju-ju.
The value between a talking figure and a broken one is massive. Many of these talker boxes were ignorantly disassembled in a vain effort to repair them, and now are a lost cause without repair and replacement parts.
I find it very amusing that people support casting orginal pieces but when someone copies an original piece and another recasts it it's a big no-no. I know this debate can go on forever, but is someone is copying intellectual property in the first place, they have nothing to say if it's recast. Only if the item is a new creation is there a problem. All these screen used pieces were created by someone, just like fan-made copies. I say if someone copied an orginal, cast away. If it's someones (fans) creation, leave it alone. Of course, this doesnt' apply to things like sculptures of people (eg. Chewie15 busts) because I consider those individual works of art and not copies of originals.
It has to do with protecting fellow members...if it's going to offend a member here, don't recast.
That in essence is the rule.
My wife would kill me if I wore one of those King Heads to bed.
Ha-hahahaha.
Jimbo,
You're talking about doll restoration...that practice is done all then time.
I took my wife's vintage doll to have "her" restored...that's exactly what happened with parts of her hand that needed replaced.
And, Yes, most of the talking toys from back then had those record players...I remember them
That in essence is the rule.
My wife would kill me if I wore one of those King Heads to bed.
Ha-hahahaha.
Jimbo,
You're talking about doll restoration...that practice is done all then time.
I took my wife's vintage doll to have "her" restored...that's exactly what happened with parts of her hand that needed replaced.
And, Yes, most of the talking toys from back then had those record players...I remember them
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Apr 28 2006, 03:05 PM) [snapback]1234937[/snapback]</div>
That was/is a Burger King web page. They started it around the release of RotS.
CaptCBoard
Well-Known Member
The recast debate is actually one of semantics.
I have a casting of the original Maltese Falcon. That's what it is, a casting. It did not come out of the original mold, it came out of a mold made later in time. But, since it was never made commercially, this can not be considered a 'recast'. The Fertility Idol from Raiders is the same thing. No one really cares if they can buy it from several different sources and its a cinch those sources are casting their own copies.
Same deal with the Burger King head. It was never sold as a retail item, it was used only as a decoration in the stores. Since this specific item is no longer used in their stores and has become a sought-after advertising collectible, making copies of it can not be considered recasting, as such. It becomes a reproduction and as long as no one tries to palm a copy off as an original, there shouldn't be any problem.
Non-entertainment items are done like this all the time. I've heard of people buying original wooden carousel horses, making fiberglass molds from them and selling copies. And if someone buys one of my Discovery models and winds up copying it 20 years from now, will anyone really call him a recaster?
I'm not saying recasting is okay. Obviously I'd be pissed if someone bought one of my products, dunked it into rubber and started selling it. But, the point to be made is just making a copy of something, for personal or financial gain, isn't necessarily recasting. There are other legal points to be addressed, but for the purposes of this board, those don't usually come into play.
Now. Who'd like to buy an ORIGINAL, screen-used Maltese Falcon? Huh? Any takers? I'll make you a really good deal.
Scott
I have a casting of the original Maltese Falcon. That's what it is, a casting. It did not come out of the original mold, it came out of a mold made later in time. But, since it was never made commercially, this can not be considered a 'recast'. The Fertility Idol from Raiders is the same thing. No one really cares if they can buy it from several different sources and its a cinch those sources are casting their own copies.
Same deal with the Burger King head. It was never sold as a retail item, it was used only as a decoration in the stores. Since this specific item is no longer used in their stores and has become a sought-after advertising collectible, making copies of it can not be considered recasting, as such. It becomes a reproduction and as long as no one tries to palm a copy off as an original, there shouldn't be any problem.
Non-entertainment items are done like this all the time. I've heard of people buying original wooden carousel horses, making fiberglass molds from them and selling copies. And if someone buys one of my Discovery models and winds up copying it 20 years from now, will anyone really call him a recaster?
I'm not saying recasting is okay. Obviously I'd be pissed if someone bought one of my products, dunked it into rubber and started selling it. But, the point to be made is just making a copy of something, for personal or financial gain, isn't necessarily recasting. There are other legal points to be addressed, but for the purposes of this board, those don't usually come into play.
Now. Who'd like to buy an ORIGINAL, screen-used Maltese Falcon? Huh? Any takers? I'll make you a really good deal.
Scott
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