A pseudo-moral dilemma -- Advice Needed.

Rogue428

New Member
Hey folks, you guys may remember that a while back I offered up a run on some extremely high-end replicas of the Nine Doors to the Kingdom of Shadows, the book from the film "The Ninth Gate" and the novel "The Club Dumas". For me, it was the culmination of about 3 years of research and hard work, and I promised my wife that I would only ever make 1 more. That 1 was supposed to be the one used to illustrate a tutorial on how to make a "cheaper" version, not 100% screen-accurate, but a nice replica none-the-less.

I've had the resources on how to make your own 'home' version on my site for a long time now and I'm afraid that the binding part of the tutorial keeps getting pushed to the perpetual back-burner, as new prop projects and 40K suck up my spare time.

Here comes the dilemma part. Recently, I was contacted by an expert prop-maker with an excellent reputation in production work, who was asked by several people to recreate the book. He asked me for help and it is quickly apparent to me that he doesn't quite know what he's gotten himself into. I mean this book is on the scale of a Grail Diary in detail (at least I think so....but I'm partial).

Anyway, I find myself with a small quandary.

Option 1: I could just tell him to use the stuff I have on my website, which would result in a nice looking replica but is just a start and he would have to do a lot of footwork....and I mean pretty much all the research I did...to get it close to screen accurate. The stuff I have up on my website is pretty much for folks that want something that looks like the Nine Gates, but isn't a page for page recreation.

Option 2: I turn him over all my research, files, etc. And allow him to recreate a 90% screen-accurate book. (for my project I was able to get the books bound by the actual propmaker for the film, so that gives my replicas an edge.) However, I only made 16 copies of my run and I wouldn't want these newer replicas to somehow devalue the one's currently in select collectors' hands.

Option 3: Something between Option 1 and 2. I give him some stuff, but not all the text and not all the research. I would only provide him with the stuff I actually developed. Parts of the project were lovingly crafted by other members here and that stuff, until I hear otherwise, I'm treating as proprietary and will not go to anyone else (same for Option 2 btw...only my stuff).

Just so we're clear. I do not intend to work on this project ever again. It was great to work on, but it was very expensive and time consuming and I want to move on. BUT. As a devout follower of the hobby, I want everyone to be able to get the props they want. And apparently there is more demand for this than I thought.

Advice? What seems the correct way to go? Is there a precedent for this kind of thing?
 
#1.

Seriously, if he wants it bad enough you have given him a HUGE head start. If you do either of the others you will doubtless loose controll of the work you put in to it.

I would tell you to take #1 even if it was me asking for the info.
 
Honestly, there is no right or wrong answer but the question is whether you ever plan to do anything else with that information that will bring you money. You did the work, you deserve the rewards. However, if you don't plan to use this info again for another run, why would you hold onto it? Why not make it all publicly available? I am sure some would argue against this, but why not? There are no prizes for hording and you would be helping in an even greater capacity than you already have. If you choose to share all of your information (which is my suggestion, even though I have absolutely ZERO interest in this particular prop) I wouldn't share it with just this one propmaker. Make the info public to all. Blow it out of the water. Anyway, that is my two cents.
 
BB makes a good point.

And I should clarify mine.

I would vote #1 if he wanted it for FREE...

If he wanted to PAY you for it, well, the skyÂ’s the limit.
 
I say option #1 but offer more but only with a "consulting" fee, either a flat out agreed upon price up front or a percantage of each book made now and in the future.

For your original run, did you offer anything like a COA or was it signed by you in some place so that you or the book owners would be able to tell your copy from someone else's version? If so, that alone could help keep the value of the book from falling should lesser quality books make to the public.

Though I do agree with Brak on that first question. If you know for a fact that you will never, ever work on this book again (and therefore can't make you anymore money), what's the point to holding on to the files? I would think you'd wan't as many people as possible to enjoy your work, no?

What you should do, is go over your files and make litlle, insignificant changes to some of the text (but know what changes you're making) and then release the files to the public. This way, if the files are out there for free, it'll make it harder on the vultures to prey on people AND your original run particiapnts will be protected (the little tells will be present in the "knock-offs").

-Fred
 
I understand exactly how difficult a choice this is. There are a lot of factors to consider. But esentially, I think that while the information is, in all fairness, public domain, the results of your countless hours of research is not. However, considering that you also don't hold claim to this particular intelectual property, profiting from it would be morally wrong. I think option number one would be the wisest and fairest solution. If they should be as serious about this replica as it sounds, then they'd be willing to go the extra mile and would be grateful for the help given.
 
<div class='quotetop'>(Ryusui @ Sep 3 2006, 08:13 AM) [snapback]1312153[/snapback]</div>
I understand exactly how difficult a choice this is. There are a lot of factors to consider. But esentially, I think that while the information is, in all fairness, public domain, the results of your countless hours of research is not. However, considering that you also don't hold claim to this particular intelectual property, profiting from it would be morally wrong. I think option number one would be the wisest and fairest solution. If they should be as serious about this replica as it sounds, then they'd be willing to go the extra mile and would be grateful for the help given.
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Well it's a combination of problems. While he technically doesn't hold the intellectual rights to the stuff found in the movie version, he does own the stuff that he created (and other members created and donated) - and that's probably a very large portion of the file, seeing how little was actually seen on the screen..

-Fred
 
I think you are allowed to charge for the time you spend doing research.
If he is willing to pay, you can turn over all your info, otherwise a #1 may be a good starting point.
 
Thanks for your replies guys. Seems like the consensus goes with #1. So what I'm gonna do is a modified #1. I will make a lot of stuff, (most common engravings, chapter titles, page #'s, etc...) totally public domain. But will keep the other rarer stuff.

That way folks that want a good replica can get one. And I won't devalue the other ones already out there.

I'm not too interested in the financial aspect, when I did the original run, I didn't make a dime. The replica was expensive enough as it was and my biggest benefit was getting a fairly hefty discount on the binding services due to the number of books we were getting done.

To answer another question, when I made mine, I did have COAs and the text of the book is rich with tells, so I'm not too worried about folks using my stuff and me not knowing about it.

Like I said before, I'm probably not ever going to make another one of these (except for the homemade tutorial one) so I would prefer that folks that want one of them could get one.

Again, thanks for the input, and it made my decision easier.
 
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However, I only made 16 copies of my run and I wouldn't want these newer replicas to somehow devalue the one's currently in select collectors' hands.
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As a devout follower of the hobby, I want everyone to be able to get the props they want. And apparently there is more demand for this than I thought.
<snip>
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I'm still relatively new to the RPF but not to the hobby in generalÂ… I see a quite a bit of this and it's confusing to me.

How do these two sentiments cohabitate in this hobby?

I mean I totally understand the “recasting” debate… fair compensation for skills and effort in creating a prop should go to the creator as long as he's active, but I am also a bit of a prop populist and have never fully understood the whole artificial "limited edition" thing.

So, when people move on or retireÂ… what is fair then?

Or is this one of those things that just is a question that can never be answered? One where everyone has a position but like religion or politics nobodyÂ’s supposed to talk about it in polite company?


Ben
 
Like so many things in this hobby, I think it comes back to money.

*personally*, I don't have much interest in the way of making money from any of this stuff.

My last batch of Firefly radios made me about $40... and I sold 20+ of them :)

If it was me, and I had no intention of making any more, I'd release all of the info into the wild... I'd just put it all on my web page for anyone that wanted it.

If you want to reserve the right to sell these in the future and want to protect yourself... then keep it to yourself / license it out.
 
As someone just getting into prop making/collecting I can say that free info is always good but I would gladly pay for anything that gives me an edge or a massive head start.
 
Hi, Mike! Haven't seen you around in ages.
Congrats on getting married; when did that happen?

Option 1 sounds good, or maybe 3.

edit: duh, I just noticed how old this thread is. Thanks for revealing our lack of observational skills, Ash! :lol
 
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