A new Time Bandits Map

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merlinb

Member
Update!
Jheilman has helped me out a lot with better source images, and now I can't leave well alone. I've been mulling over whether to update my clocks. I found this site which has a lot of old clock catalog images. Most of them are just 'similar' to the ones on the map, but I think the rectangular clock may be an exact match! The alarm clock is also very close.
I'm still trying to mangle the images to get that crappy photocopied look, but here's what I have come up with, next to the best source images I have. I haven't tried printing them yet though. I'm not sure if I prefer these boring catalog clocks to the 'more interesting' ones I started with.
 

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R5D4

Active Member
Update!
Jheilman has helped me out a lot with better source images, and now I can't leave well alone. I've been mulling over whether to update my clocks. I found this site which has a lot of old clock catalog images. Most of them are just 'similar' to the ones on the map, but I think the rectangular clock may be an exact match! The alarm clock is also very close.
I'm still trying to mangle the images to get that crappy photocopied look, but here's what I have come up with, next to the best source images I have. I haven't tried printing them yet though. I'm not sure if I prefer these boring catalog clocks to the 'more interesting' ones I started with.
I don’t understand why your bothering to update the clock panels yet there are at least two big features on your map that are totally inaccurate yet you refuse to redo them.
 

jheilman

Sr Member
Great clock research. I agree about the bottom clock. Thought it was a pocket watch for years, but a few details didn't make sense. I have updated mine to a desktop clock with feet and at a slight angle to show the clock body as seen in vintage Sears catalog pics. Awesome find for clock 2!! The second biggest clock mystery IMHO. I'm looking through that site you linked, but do you have a link to the page with the clock you think is the best match? That will probably be a new update I make.
 

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Missesp86

New Member
Hello again! Just a little update I thought I'd share... The Facebook post I'd shared on the Randall Costume made its way to both Michael Palin, and Mike Edmonds (Og) so now my boy is in receipt of signed photos of them both. Here's a pic of him and your map merlinb with the many photos of Mike Edmonds in his various characters
 

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Missesp86

New Member
Missesp86 - wow, that is so awesome! I want signed photos from Og.
I don't blame you! Honestly Mike Edmonds is such a lovely guy we ebeded up having a chat on messenger and he added me as a friend, total legend. He's actually been in an award winning feature film Documentary during the Independent London film festival called "Under the Radar" it was all about his life and career, really interesting how he managed to land the roles he's had. Well worth a watch if you can find it online. I know the film maker is called Simon J Frith
 

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Uridium

Well-Known Member
I haven't started mine yet. When you say coffee, do you use liquid? I am presuming to colour the back?
Is it safe to get it all wet and not affect the picture on the front?
 

merlinb

Member
I haven't started mine yet. When you say coffee, do you use liquid? I am presuming to colour the back?
Is it safe to get it all wet and not affect the picture on the front?
I folded the map and tried to press the creases sharp. Then I dragged the creases across the edge of a blunt bolster, to wear them away, and rubbed the creases with some wire wool too. (I now think it would be better to do this stage last, to keep the folds looking whiter.)

I pulled away some threads around the edges of the map to make them look less even, then I rolled it into a tight tube and rubbed the end of the tube vigorously on a brick wall to 'shred' each edge of the map. It's tough and really takes a beating!

I stained the back first. I use a very strong mix of instant coffee (yes, just coffee and water). I did also throw in a dash of brown wood stain, because the back is resistant to stain and needs something pretty potent to have much effect.
Also: Put down an old towel or something, so when the map is face down on the towel while you're staining the back, you won't acidentally get any hard surfaces rubbing against the front. Don't ask me how I know.

For the front I used a less strong mix of instant coffee. I dabbed it around the border with a rag, and also on some of the blue nebula areas to dirty them up, but I tried to avoid most of the white symbols like the Fludd time holes and the white rings. While it was still damp I sprinkled on some ash and flour, very lightly, and just kinda rubbed it in with my hand. Most of it fell off when dry, but some is nicely ingrained.

Finally I very gently rubbed some of the blue nebula with sandpaper (400 grade I think) to get the 'cloudy' wear effect.

Yes the print is completely water resistant, I even tried putting it in the washing machine with no harm done!
 
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merlinb

Member
That looks fantastic! Great work!
Thanks! I've finally found a nice way to mount it too. It's so large that getting a professional frame would cost a fortune. Also I didn't want to hide it behind glass -I want people to be able to feel the texture! So I made my own frame from some plywood and door trim I had lying around, painted black with gold lettering. It's supposed to look like a reliquary, like you might find hidden away in the back of some ancient chapel in Rome. The latin inscription reads:

And He said: Let the earth bring forth trees and shrubs. And it was so.
And on the seventh day, God fulfilled his work, which He had made. And on the seventh day He rested from all His work, which He had accomplished.
On the eigth day, God created the map of the universe. And it was full of holes.
IMG_20210517_165808015.jpg
 
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Bigdaddy

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This thread is all sorts of awesome! I saw TB during it's original run and introduced my daughter to it when she was about 6, she's going to be 19 and still loves it. Great to see this epic prop brought to life and still getting the attention it deserves after 4 decades! Well done to the Universe cartographers here. :cool: (y)
 

merlinb

Member
I've been chatting to Bernard Allum the original artist, hoping to get some inside info on the map. Unfortunately he is an extremely disagreeable person. Weirdly, he doesn't much care about hs own work, yet he's also angry that people are copying it! He was absolutely scathing about Heilman's map. His memory of it is also very sketchy (as you might expect) but he won't tolerate being contradicted, even with picture proof. He kept changing the subject but I thought I'd post what few scraps I managed to get out of him:

"I have the books which were used for the sources of the map, which by the way was drawn by hand with airbrush/ruling pens/ and denegrated xerox copies. The references came mainly from antiquarian French and Greek rare books."

"The DVD’s map was done by the publisher and is not representative of the original, those grid lines are way to heavy and there is no, other colours like that sepia."
(He was conviced the DVD/BluRay maps were 'not his map' which is obviously a case of false memory. Then I showed him a screenshot from the movie):
"that's my map note all one colour, except for hand painted highlight in gold and silver / colour"

"I made a replica in 1999 for my retrospective exhibition in London, which was pretty close but as I say the methods of making it are now so antiquated it just won't happen.
I didn’t create the opening credits, they were made elsewhere. Type, your reading to much into this, it was a job, something I had 8 days to create from a standing start alongside all the other work I was doing. I destroyed my replica map 3 years ago when I lost my storage to build my new house. Smashed the glass and put a saw through the frame. My son was furious. Means more to others than me."


I read that Terry Gilliam used his map to line a birdcage for some years?
"Hi the TG story is a wind up/ joke. I met him to do Brazil and asked me if I had still got a copy. He said one was used to shoot on, one was used to rehearse with both of those were destroyed in action, the last went to G Harrison for his office. Sorry but that map is not like the one I created that had a double band circle in the centre and twelve circles like on a clock face. There are millions of random stars in the background in the original rendering."
(Again he was referring to the DVD map)

"As for ageing and folding, I did that, do you think I would allow someone else to screw up my work?"

FInally he left me with this image, which I can only guess was his retrospective reproduction, but he left in a huff!
 

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