A new Time Bandits Map

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merlinb

Member
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No it’s all there. Click on this picture and zoom in. You can see it all in this screen still.
Do you mean this? That's not part of the design, that's where the printing has been weathered off.
 

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merlinb

Member
Oh I see. Yes that is what I meant. Then is that’s something that should or shouldn’t be replicated?
Personally I think the replica print should look fairly clean and new, like when the prop was first printed. Then you can add weathering afterwards by hand; wear, tears, creases, dirt, stains, powders etc, like the prop makers would have done.
If you tried to 'print' the wear and tear as part of the design I think it will look fake, like a photograph and not a physical object.
 

R5D4

Active Member
Personally I think the replica print should look fairly clean and new, like when the prop was first printed. Then you can add weathering afterwards by hand; wear, tears, creases, dirt, stains, powders etc, like the prop makers would have done.
If you tried to 'print' the wear and tear as part of the design I think it will look fake, like a photograph and not a physical object.
Yes I agree with you on that. Okay. Also what about the rest of the writing and numbers at the top on the border? I know it was also on John Heilmans replica map.
 

merlinb

Member
Yes I agree with you on that. Okay. Also what about the rest of the writing and numbers at the top on the border? I know it was also on John Heilmans replica map.
I have added the numbers to my next print, but the writing is completely unintelligible so I have left it off. It looks like it was written by hand with a pen anyway, so people could always write their own interpretation on the map if they wanted to.
 

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R5D4

Active Member
I have added the numbers to my next print, but the writing is completely unintelligible so I have left it off. It looks like it was written by hand with a pen anyway, so people could always write their own interpretation on the map if they wanted to.
Still it does look nice. Well I guess it can be an option.
 

Digital Mayhem

Well-Known Member
I found this in my archive. don't know where I found it...

The Supreme Being's map, Time Bandits (1981)


Terry Gilliam, director (in an interview with The Christian Science Monitor, 1982): ''The 'big questions' are always there for us. Michael [Palin, co-writer] and I had solid religious upbringings, so we grew up believing and thinking about God and religion and good and evil. I can't get those out of my system; they're a part of me. The normal approach in a kids' film is to make the final character a wizard. But why not bring God into it? Why not stop fiddling around, and get right down to things? The cosmic view appeals to me. I like to think I'm not alone, that there's a whole structure around us."

Bernard Allum, graphic designer: "I was working at a London Television Studio as a Senior Graphic Designer when I was contacted by the Art Director on Time Bandits to meet up with Terry Gilliam to discuss a special prop he wanted. Terry was a Python so, who wouldn't want to work for him?

"We met at Lee Studios in London and he gave me a vague outline of the plot (no scripts to outsiders) and some reference books (Athanasuis Kircher's A Renaissance Man and the Quest for Lost Knowledge Astrology, The Celestial Mirror, and L'évènement Cartes et figures de la Terre) and said, "I want a map of the Universe that looks like it was made by God, go and create it" Bit of a challenge. I pored over the books and set off to it. I initially made it an A1 size. Terry wanted it bigger, so as to make the dwarves look smaller, I did and it ended up approx 120 x 70 centimeters.

"We wanted the map to look as though it was made by [The Supreme Being], so it had to be very, very detailed. I airbrushed the background to look like the Milky Way with all the galaxies and all the stars that you can see, a bit like looking at the night sky with binoculars. I then drew thin white lines with a ruling pen and hundreds of dots and dashes to make it look like a map. I put an outside border on the map which had clocks of various vintages which were taken from old Sears catalogues and old engravings; the idea was that it should look as though you could track time from across the grid. I then found and drew images of celestial beings and circular astrology charts to give the map an antique feel from the beginning.

"I wanted to have it specially printed onto canvas and the best way to do this was by having it silk screened in dark blue. The printer printed three maps and complained bitterly that it was really difficult because it was so detailed. I then took the finished items and hand decorated the images in golds, silvers and regal colours like purple and azure blues, but all the time aware this prop was going to have a lot of manhandling during the filming process. I then had to cut out holes in the map so the Dwarves could jump down one time zone and come back up in another thereby time travelling. The map also has a full color image of the Creator's palace on the rear. I then folded and creased the maps like a Ordnance Survey map and duly delivered them. Terry was delighted and I was relieved to have fulfilled the brief.

"Later Terry called me up to work on Brazil. I designed the Ministry of Information Angel logo and many set props. At our initial meeting he asked me if there were any more maps in existence. I said, no, he had the three that were made. He then went on to tell me that they used one for rehearsal on camera, one to shoot on set, and the last one saved just in case there was a mishap with the other two. The clean unused one was framed to go behind George Harrison's Handmade Films desk in his Soho office. He told me it was a lavish affair, sandwiched between glass in a hand carved antique frame. He then laughed the manic laugh of his. I asked why he was laughing. He said, "it cost more to frame the map than we paid you to make it."
 

merlinb

Member
This is perfect! Now we know. 120 x 70 cm.
He's obviously referring to A0 size which matches my estimations. Although, I'd take those recollections witha pinch of salt, we know he didn't "cut out holes in the map so the Dwarves could jump down"!
 

R5D4

Active Member
He's obviously referring to A0 size which matches my estimations. Although, I'd take those recollections witha pinch of salt, we know he didn't "cut out holes in the map so the Dwarves could jump down"!
Well it matches your estimates as far as the A0 size goes. That’s good enough for me.
 

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R5D4

Active Member
You have definitely done your homework on this! I have one other question. Do you think the white border across the top and bottom of the map is a bit too thick?
 

merlinb

Member
You have definitely done your homework on this! I have one other question. Do you think the white border across the top and bottom of the map is a bit too thick?
You mean my test print? The aspect ratio of an A0 sheet is not the same as the final map, the extra has to be trimmed off.
 

Patattack

Sr Member
This is great!
Just one suggestion, the blue background would benefit from having a bit of depth to it, with very subtle variations in hue rather than one solid block of color. If you look at the original there is a subtle variance of blue around some of the features like the white reef-like areas.
I have two reproductions, one is beautifully printed with a high clarity of detail and the other is of a lower quality but has that depth of background. I prefer the later despite the lack of detail as its much more pleasing to the eye at a distance hanging on my wall.
I guess its open to interpretation but just thought it an important point to consider.

All the best with your map.

Do you mind if I ask the creators of your two maps? I've always been curious about getting one of these maps, but every example that I've seen from a different maker comes out looking great, so it's hard to know how they actually differ when you look at them in-person!

Either way, this map looks to be an excellent addition to the canon!
 

merlinb

Member
Thanks to DigitalMayhem I've already been able to improve some details, especially this symbol. It turns out I was using the wrong Fludd illustration to start with! He's a tricky fellow that Fludd...
 

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R5D4

Active Member
Good job. This map is so detailed that it worth taking more time to improve as much as possible. To small details come to mind and I drew a couple of little black circles around them in this picture below I’m not sure what you make of them. They may need to be added. Here is the picture. The black circles I made towards the bottom left of two very white dots.
 

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David3

Sr Member
Do you mind if I ask the creators of your two maps? I've always been curious about getting one of these maps, but every example that I've seen from a different maker comes out looking great, so it's hard to know how they actually differ when you look at them in-person!

Either way, this map looks to be an excellent addition to the canon!
Just briefly- Metropolis graphics and Magnoli.
Both are superb maps and I'm proud to own one of each, just wish i could merge the best of both into one.

There's a practise in photography where you enhance or preserve the detail of foreground objects to draw the observers attention without doing so to areas like clouds and sky. This makes your subject matter pop from the background and give a simulated depth of field similar to how we see with the human eye. If I could keep the superb detail of Metropolis' Fludd simbology and merge it with the less defined background features of the Magnoli map it would almost appear three dimensional.. as if you could jump into it. ;)
 

R5D4

Active Member
Just briefly- Metropolis graphics and Magnoli.
Both are superb maps and I'm proud to own one of each, just wish i could merge the best of both into one.

There's a practise in photography where you enhance or preserve the detail of foreground objects to draw the observers attention without doing so to areas like clouds and sky. This makes your subject matter pop from the background and give a simulated depth of field similar to how we see with the human eye. If I could keep the superb detail of Metropolis' Fludd simbology and merge it with the less defined background features of the Magnoli map it would almost appear three dimensional.. as if you could jump into it. ;)
What about the John Heilman replica map? Was that one better than these? Which has been the most accurate so far?
 

R5D4

Active Member
Yes and the same thing with this big white circle thingy. This is what you have vs the actual screen used map. Thanks.
 

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