1/72 Big Orion from Moebius

[joberg]

Well, here it is...not 1:72 scale IMO. I fitted 1:76 pilots in the cockpit and they hardly fitted the seat, let alone the height of the ceiling
Didn't do the interior and respected the blackened windows. I still have to add the lines at the back of the engines (next week).
Simple kit, good size. The front window for the cockpit didn't fit; so I left it open. No Pan Am logo or letters available (I guess they didn't secure the rights for them). I had a left-over logo that I used for my Aries-1B tray and photocopied fonts that I cut and applied on the side of the shuttle + the ones under the wings.
Painted the countries of the base in white and then painted the underside blue + Pan Am logo.

 

[modelerdave]

Looks great! I really like how you did the base.

 

[Analyzer]

Excellent!

Love the aztecing look of the various panel colors

I have been eyeing one of these, nice to see a build of it

 

[joberg]

Excellent!

Love the aztecing look of the various panel colors

I have been eyeing one of these, nice to see a build of it

Thanks; lots of work masking, airbrushing...repeat

 

[TazMan2000]

Excellent job.

How does this compare with the old Airfix kit in size?

TazMan2000

 

[stevielewis]

Looks great. Really like the overall painting you did on the shuttle and the stand.

 

[joberg]

Excellent job.

How does this compare with the old Airfix kit in size?

TazMan2000

Taz; sorry for the late reply...here's the pic showing the diff in scale. The Orion on top is the original Airfix one from the '70s

 

[Analyzer]

So if the Moebius one is 1/72, the old Airfix one seems like it might be around 1/144?

 

[joberg]

So if the Moebius one is 1/72, the old Airfix one seems like it might be around 1/144?

Yes, that's the right scale

 

[bwayne64]

Man that sucker is big. Me likey, ; )

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

If the 1:76 pilots were still too big, then the model's scale is probably more like 1:85 or HO/1:87. I would've suggested seeing how some HO-scale figures fit before committing. If that's what scale it actually is (despite what it's purported to be), one can work with that. The original Airfix kit was 1:160, rather than the 1:144 it tends to still be advertised as, which is N scale in model railroading. So I could see the upscaling perpetuating that error, if Moebius thought it actually was 1:144...

Also JT Graphics makes decals for it, and there's also a lighting kit from Voodoo FX. I've had my eye on it since it was announced, but have been wary. Your build is the first solid review I've seen of the kit's true scale. Which is incredibly frustrating. I had sought out aftermarket stuff to punch up the detail, but I'd wanted it to actually be 1:72, to maintain consistency with my (mostly*) 1:72 display family.

[*I have Andy Probert's "1:72" Type VII shuttle model from TNG, but I think he forgot to take shrinkage into consideration, as it's actually 1:76.]

 

[joberg]

I hear you and, in the end, it's frustrating for us builders when the scale is off I've put an Airfix 1:76 figure standing in front of the Orion main door and it fits perfectly. It's just that the cockpit is off, as well as the passenger hold, by quite a lot in terms of scale.
Be prepared to play with cutting/fitting some figures in there I mainly respected what I saw in the movie: no lights anywhere seen on that bird.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I've put an Airfix 1:76 figure standing in front of the Orion main door and it fits perfectly.

That, to me, is even more of an indication of underscaling. This is supposed to be a commercial spaceliner that looks heavily inspired by the Concorde. We have one at the Boeing Museum of Flight here in Seattle and, even as tiny as that plane is compared to even a 737, I, at 6'2" in shoes, didn't have to stoop to go through the door. The main hatch on the Orion is unlikely to by less than six feet tall, and probably a solid two meters, given we were supposed to be all gone metric by the 1980s. A 1:76 figure fitting perfectly in the main door tells me that that door is about or less than six feet at that scale, given most air forces look for shorter pilots. That plus the interior, and I feel comfortable sticking with "underscaled".

Is that your old Airfix Orion on the new one, upthread? If so, could you measure the length of both? The sizes I've found online are annoying in their lack of decimals. "About 14"" or "about 29"" doesn't help me math all that much...

 

[joberg]

That, to me, is even more of an indication of underscaling. This is supposed to be a commercial spaceliner that looks heavily inspired by the Concorde. We have one at the Boeing Museum of Flight here in Seattle and, even as tiny as that plane is compared to even a 737, I, at 6'2" in shoes, didn't have to stoop to go through the door. The main hatch on the Orion is unlikely to by less than six feet tall, and probably a solid two meters, given we were supposed to be all gone metric by the 1980s. A 1:76 figure fitting perfectly in the main door tells me that that door is about or less than six feet at that scale, given most air forces look for shorter pilots. That plus the interior, and I feel comfortable sticking with "underscaled".

Is that your old Airfix Orion on the new one, upthread? If so, could you measure the length of both? The sizes I've found online are annoying in their lack of decimals. "About 14"" or "about 29"" doesn't help me math all that much...

It's the old Airfix: it's 13'7/8 long (without the two prongs at the end; those disappeared in a move), wing span: 6'7/8, height + cowl cover: 1'3/4
I hope it helps.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

*crunches numbers* Okay, so... If that old Airfix is 1:160, the full size craft -- minus prongs -- would be exactly 185', no decimals. If it's actually 1:144, then the "real" Orion would be 166' 6". The in-universe Orion III is supposed to be 175', solidly between those, so not much help, but I can't nail down a source for that (I don't remember seeing a scale or size notes in any surviving scraps from production -- thanks, Kubrick!). The Concorde, for academic comparison, is 202'4", but it also has a longer fuselage and more passenger capacity. And, by contrast, the space shuttle orbiter is 122'2" long, with a 60' cargo bay.

The filming miniature, at 44", is taken to be 1:48, to meet the size figure above. I know there's a single pilot figure in the cockpit, probably from a 1:48 model kit (we know there was some model-kit-cannibalizing). Which would all make a full-size Orion III 176'. Not too far off from the semiofficial figure.

A 175' spaceplane at 1:144 would be a bit over 14 1/2". At 1:160 (N scale), 13 1/8". At 1:72, about 29 1/8".
A 176' spaceplane at 1:144 would be a bit over 14 5/8". At 1:160, a little under 13 1/4". At 1:72, a little over 29 1/4".

I can't take the 175' figure too seriously. The Airfix kit would then be 1:151.351repeating, which is garbage. The 176' calculated from the filming miniature isn't much better, as that would be another ******* scale a bit over 1:152. A 166' 6" ship would be just too small to fit the interior and people (and would make the miniature about 1:45). The Airfix kit being a 1:160 representation of the "real" craft would make the filming miniature about 1:50, which is less than the margin of error for any of these others or fitting figures into your big Moebius.

Going the other way, a 185' Orion at 1:144 would be 15 13/32" long. At 1:72, a skosh over 30 13/16". Do you think another ~2" of length and accompanying volume bump would see 1:72 figures fit properly?

 

[Analyzer]

Wasn't there some inconsistency with the intended size vs actual size in regards to some shots involving the space station vs the interior size?

Basically it winds up being one of two scales depending on which you go with

Like so many other things such as the Eagle Transporter, Tie Fighter etc... inconsistent sources never really meant to reconcile beyond looking good on screen

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Which is surprising given Kubrick's exactitude.

 

[Analyzer]

Also, in regard to the relative size of the Space Station and Orion, one kit maker actually included 3 different sized Orion's so the builder could decide what scale the Space Station was

1/1400, 1/2100 or 1/2800 (based of Orion Space Clipper used). 8.6 inches (218mm) in diameter when completed.

Starship Modeler - Fantastic Plastic's Space Station V

Steven Jochums builds Fantastic Plastic's Space Station V on Starship Modeler

www.starshipmodeler.com

 

[joberg]

Which is surprising given Kubrick's exactitude.

I don't want to reply to both (one in my WIP of the 2001 Landing Bay 1:72 scale) and this thread.
So, I'll do it in this convo only.
According to "2001 The Lost Science"; Adam K. Johnson put the length of the Orion III Studio Model at 42".
Schematics (in the same book) shows the full size at 175' X 7'(not including the 2 rear prongs). The 7' measurement is at its largest width.
Here's a few pics showing the Moebius model and various scaled figures.

1: 1:72 figure near the door.
2: 1:76 figure near the door.
3: 1:76 figure + seat near the door. Seats are the same size throughout the model.
It was, basically, the same with the Aries-1B; not a 1:72 scale either in terms of figures/seating.

While the pics showing the 1:76 figure near the door, the cockpit is even smaller in size: very low ceiling and crammed seating.
If said cockpit was in scale with the door, we would've another kit size altogether.

 

[joberg]

Also, in regard to the relative size of the Space Station and Orion, one kit maker actually included 3 different sized Orion's so the builder could decide what scale the Space Station was

1/1400, 1/2100 or 1/2800 (based of Orion Space Clipper used). 8.6 inches (218mm) in diameter when completed.

Starship Modeler - Fantastic Plastic's Space Station V

Steven Jochums builds Fantastic Plastic's Space Station V on Starship Modeler

www.starshipmodeler.com

Indeed, the WIP I'm building now (thread: "2001 Landing Bay 1:72 scale) is for the Moebius model. The Aries-1B was never supposed to go into that bay...low ceiling compared to the pics found on the net To cram the Orion + Aries-1B into that same bay would've been impossible.
But, it's a movie...right?