“There and Back Again; A Mystery Chunk Tale”

[gjw]

Can we dial it back please?
I have no entitlement issues and I haven't tried to buy one from anybody BUT before the reveal the question was asked repeatedly (and not by me) why the secrecy?
The answer was to prevent price gouging and to make sure that the community could benefit.
Now after the reveal people are talking about private sales and sold-out members, and not one has been offered to the community via its officially sanctioned sales channel (unless I missed it).
I trust and believe that you guys acted with the intent of benefiting the community but the natural extension of that is selling to the community in an open and equal manner and that's the part that has not yet been explained.
People (again not me) suggested interest threads and sign-up lists and organized boot bidding and they were poo-pooed.
Scott announced his $8 price but he's sold out.
You didn't announce your $3 intentions until you responded to me.
Your claims of protecting the community are wonderful and laudable and honorable but people just want to know how they're going to obtain one and since you haven't given them an answer, I'm afraid the bidding is sadly going to increase.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

I just want to be sure I understand this correctly.

...if another discovery is made by Bryan, Chris, or I, or a combination of, it will be handled differently.

lesson learned.

Are you saying that if another discovery of a real-world part is made in the future, you're going to keep the secret to yourselves and not share with the RPF?

y'all realize that it doesn't exactly incentivize us to be as philanthropic as we've generally tried to be, right?

So, the real-world part was revealed to the RPF out of philanthropy, not because the RPF is a place where we discuss props, how to make/build them, share our builds, and have conversations about what real-world parts might be and search to discover them together? If we find out what a certain part is we might keep it to ourselves to control the supply and price and maybe only share it with everyone else if we're feeling philanthropic?

When you try to do the right thing and are met with a reaction like this is the reason people become understandably reluctant to share anything.

Everyone's idea of right and wrong is different.

What do you want?

I want the RPF where we make discoveries on the site, in threads, like the flame tube being the IG-88 head and then, subsequently, the Balance Pipes also discovered on-site in a thread. I want an RPF where we go over photos, screen-shots, and post images from photo searches to makes discoveries on the RPF in threads. I want the discovery of the calculator circuit card under the bubbles of the ESB/ROTJ Darth Vader lightsaber to be made on the RPF. I want, when the Browning machine gun booster was finally discovered, to be posted on the RPF for everyone to see and know what that part finally was. I want an RPF where we share what we love because we love each other and we love the RPF, not because we're trying to keep secrets and hide things from our fellow builders and our friends so we can control supply, control price, control information, control access.

Does sharing publicly drive up the price? Sure. But that's life and it's impossible to control.

What was the master plan? Discover the boot studs and never tell anyone? Buy them up at the going cost and re-sell studs to RPF'ers all the while knowing what they are and not sharing this information? Trying to control the cost and control the supply out of 'philanthropy'? Because one person's idea of right is to freely share information and another person's idea of right is to try to control the supply and cost?

If you know what the part is and you're not sharing with the RPF, and you're controlling the cost and controlling the supply, then you're taking away the right of everyone who doesn;t know what the part is to a free market where they can purchase the same part for whatever they are willing to spend.

I get that you discovered the part and you didn't have to tell anyone what it was, but you can't have it both ways. You can't share the discovery out of a desire to be philanthropic and then shame people for wanting to buy the part themselves and boosting the price up.

If you have yours, and a few extras, and all the necessary people have theirs also, why would it matter what the price goes up to? Who cares if everyone is paying 3X-5X the price of a month ago. Like I said earlier, Graflex's have gone from $150 to $1500 to $200 in the 18 years I've been on the RPF. Prices fluctuate, supply and demand, etc...

The discovery, and sharing the discovery, is 1000X times more important than the price of the part.

 

[Verity Cosplay]

I just want to be sure I understand this correctly.




Are you saying that if another discovery of a real-world part is made in the future, you're going to keep the secret to yourselves and not share with the RPF?





So, the real-world part was revealed to the RPF out of philanthropy, not because the RPF is a place where we discuss props, how to make/build them, share our builds, and have conversations about what real-world parts might be and search to discover them together? If we find out what a certain part is we might keep it to ourselves to control the supply and price and maybe only share it with everyone else if we're feeling philanthropic?




Everyone's idea of right and wrong is different.



I want the RPF where we make discoveries on the site, in threads, like the flame tube being the IG-88 head and then, subsequently, the Balance Pipes also discovered on-site in a thread. I want an RPF where we go over photos, screen-shots, and post images from photo searches to makes discoveries on the RPF in threads. I want the discovery of the calculator circuit card under the bubbles of the ESB/ROTJ Darth Vader lightsaber to be made on the RPF. I want, when the Browning machine gun booster was finally discovered, to be posted on the RPF for everyone to see and know what that part finally was. I want an RPF where we share what we love because we love each other and we love the RPF, not because we're trying to keep secrets and hide things from our fellow builders and our friends so we can control supply, control price, control information, control access.

Does sharing publicly drive up the price? Sure. But that's life and it's impossible to control.

What was the master plan? Discover the boot studs and never tell anyone? Buy them up at the going cost and re-sell studs to RPF'ers all the while knowing what they are and not sharing this information? Trying to control the cost and control the supply out of 'philanthropy'? Because one person's idea of right is to freely share information and another person's idea of right is to try to control the supply and cost?

If you know what the part is and you're not sharing with the RPF, and you're controlling the cost and controlling the supply, then you're taking away the right of everyone who doesn;t know what the part is to a free market where they can purchase the same part for whatever they are willing to spend.

I get that you discovered the part and you didn't have to tell anyone what it was, but you can't have it both ways. You can't share the discovery out of a desire to be philanthropic and then shame people for wanting to buy the part themselves and boosting the price up.

If you have yours, and a few extras, and all the necessary people have theirs also, why would it matter what the price goes up to? Who cares if everyone is paying 3X-5X the price of a month ago. Like I said earlier, Graflex's have gone from $150 to $1500 to $200 in the 18 years I've been on the RPF. Prices fluctuate, supply and demand, etc...

The discovery, and sharing the discovery, is 1000X times more important that the price of the part.

No. What I am saying is, Bryan found the part. We wanted time to confirm and to TRY and secure sufficient supply to honor the community's wants WITHOUT driving price gouging and hurting the other boot collecting community.

but the impatience and incredible pressure forced our hand. And the attempt AT being considerate to the community was met with derision.

remember the adage "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? Yeah. That has happened here.

I'm not saying we won't share but... I guarantee that IF Bryan and I figure out what say... the enigma lever... is, we'll handle it differently.

 

[BRRogers]

I just want to be sure I understand this correctly.




Are you saying that if another discovery of a real-world part is made in the future, you're going to keep the secret to yourselves and not share with the RPF?





So, the real-world part was revealed to the RPF out of philanthropy, not because the RPF is a place where we discuss props, how to make/build them, share our builds, and have conversations about what real-world parts might be and search to discover them together? If we find out what a certain part is we might keep it to ourselves to control the supply and price and maybe only share it with everyone else if we're feeling philanthropic?




Everyone's idea of right and wrong is different.



I want the RPF where we make discoveries on the site, in threads, like the flame tube being the IG-88 head and then, subsequently, the Balance Pipes also discovered on-site in a thread. I want an RPF where we go over photos, screen-shots, and post images from photo searches to makes discoveries on the RPF in threads. I want the discovery of the calculator circuit card under the bubbles of the ESB/ROTJ Darth Vader lightsaber to be made on the RPF. I want, when the Browning machine gun booster was finally discovered, to be posted on the RPF for everyone to see and know what that part finally was. I want an RPF where we share what we love because we love each other and we love the RPF, not because we're trying to keep secrets and hide things from our fellow builders and our friends so we can control supply, control price, control information, control access.

Does sharing publicly drive up the price? Sure. But that's life and it's impossible to control.

What was the master plan? Discover the boot studs and never tell anyone? Buy them up at the going cost and re-sell studs to RPF'ers all the while knowing what they are and not sharing this information? Trying to control the cost and control the supply out of 'philanthropy'? Because one person's idea of right is to freely share information and another person's idea of right is to try to control the supply and cost?

If you know what the part is and you're not sharing with the RPF, and you're controlling the cost and controlling the supply, then you're taking away the right of everyone who doesn;t know what the part is to a free market where they can purchase the same part for whatever they are willing to spend.

I get that you discovered the part and you didn't have to tell anyone what it was, but you can't have it both ways. You can't share the discovery out of a desire to be philanthropic and then shame people for wanting to buy the part themselves and boosting the price up.

If you have yours, and a few extras, and all the necessary people have theirs also, why would it matter what the price goes up to? Who cares if everyone is paying 3X-5X the price of a month ago. Like I said earlier, Graflex's have gone from $150 to $1500 to $200 in the 18 years I've been on the RPF. Prices fluctuate, supply and demand, etc...

The discovery, and sharing the discovery, is 1000X times more important that the price of the part.

Alright.
So be it

y’all know now and I did my best as a human.
Everyone who knew early sold it cheap and at the behest of PMs to the best of their human intention.
First came and first served. Even in a signup thread that’s the case.
seems damned if I did damned if I didn’t either way.

well.
Enjoy the rest of the conversation!
it was fun for a minute there

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

No. What I am saying is, Bryan found the part. We wanted time to confirm and to TRY and secure sufficient supply to honor the community's wants WITHOUT driving price gouging and hurting the other boot collecting community.

but the impatience and incredible pressure forced our hand. And the attempt AT being considerate to the community was met with derision.

remember the adage "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? Yeah. That has happened here.

I'm not saying we won't share but... I guarantee that IF Bryan and I figure out what say... the enigma lever... is, we'll handle it differently.

I certainly hope we’re ‘worthy’ of learning what that discovery is from you if you find it.

 

[scarf man]

When all the bickering is hashed out, and everyone is friends again, will someone please take a moment to pm me pointing to the sales post? I’ve got one of Dan’s spinning emitter blanks from five or so years ago, and I’d like a chunk/stud for my saber, but can wait until the smoke clears.
Carry on.

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

******, I think we need to step back a bit and relax. It’s been what, 4 days since the info was released? Were people expecting a thousand of these things right from the get go? Just give it a little bit of time, Id bet that eventually there will be so many that no one will know what to do with them.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

For the record, I’m not trying to make enemies or make anyone mad or frustrated. I am genuinely ecstatic and overjoyed that the mystery chunk was identified, and that is due to the passionate fans here on the RPF.

I don’t like secrets, or information not shared, that’s all. I like an RPF where we share, not one where we hide and covet knowledge.

But I’m not mad or sore at anyone personally, just frustrated with the situation- not frustrated with the people.

 

[BRRogers]

Can we dial it back please?
I have no entitlement issues and I haven't tried to buy one from anybody BUT before the reveal the question was asked repeatedly (and not by me) why the secrecy?
The answer was to prevent price gouging and to make sure that the community could benefit.
Now after the reveal people are talking about private sales and sold-out members, and not one has been offered to the community via its officially sanctioned sales channel (unless I missed it).
I trust and believe that you guys acted with the intent of benefiting the community but the natural extension of that is selling to the community in an open and equal manner and that's the part that has not yet been explained.
People (again not me) suggested interest threads and sign-up lists and organized boot bidding and they were poo-pooed.
Scott announced his $8 price but he's sold out.
You didn't announce your $3 intentions until you responded to me.
Your claims of protecting the community are wonderful and laudable and honorable but people just want to know how they're going to obtain one and since you haven't given them an answer, I'm afraid the bidding is sadly going to increase.

Not by you.
James Kenobi 1138
Mara Jade's Father
If I recall.
They (most outspokenly) demanded answers and transparency in light of my saying I knew.

Detailed information and sales went up within 3 weeks of ID for the mere handful that were acquired and I guarantee 100% of them were resales to observant RPF members who responded quickly and directly.

It seems that’s not enough and you bought into that

Whatever else comes you can all enjoy on your own. Bad apples spoil the bunch sometimes and this thread now has no taste for me due to the insulting nature.
Have fun with the rest.

my last post here on this thread.
If you don’t get why? It’s not worth arguing about.

P.S.
Thank you to all who have had kind words and support. I lost sleep and felt a deep anxiety over processing this thing the right way due to much of the cynicism and mistrust expressed in the V2 thread.
I hope that in the long run this will be a joyful and fun read for everyone... and hope everyone can grab a chunk that suits them in the near future at a great deal.

 

[scarf man]

For the record, I’m not trying to make enemies or make anyone mad or frustrated. I am genuinely ecstatic and overjoyed that the mystery chunk was identified, and that is due to the passionate fans here on the RPF.

I don’t like secrets, or information not shared, that’s all. I like an RPF where we share, not one where we hide and covet knowledge.

But I’m not mad or sore at anyone personally, just frustrated with the situation- not frustrated with the people.

I can relate. I was steamed when the high rez Obi ANH saber pics were dolled out piecemeal and the flow of info was tight. I just came to realize that patience rewards all, and here it is fifteen years later, and I’m still tweaking the accuracy of my sabers. Lol

Not by you.
James Kenobi 1138
Mara Jade's Father
If I recall.
They (most outspokenly) demanded answers and transparency in light of my saying I knew.

Detailed information and sales went up within 3 weeks of ID for the mere handful that were acquired and I guarantee 100% of them were resales to observant RPF members who responded quickly and directly.

It seems that’s not enough and you bought into that

Whatever else comes you can all enjoy on your own. Bad apples spoil the bunch sometimes and this thread now has no taste for me due to the insulting nature.
Have fun with the rest.

my last post here on this thread.
If you don’t get why? It’s not worth arguing about.

For what it’s worth, I’m glad you found the part rather than some less than ethical member who might actually have done something wrong with the information.

 

[chazzychaz]

The entitlement and lack of context here is astounding...
so is the lack of faith in someone working with a trusted set of good-willed people to do their best with the community at large in mind.. theRPF yes and Facebook (groups) are an extension.

When you try to do the right thing and are met with a reaction like this is the reason people become understandably reluctant to share anything.
What do you want? Do You want to buy a chunk? From Scott on Facebook which you missed because he sold out already? From Chris who sold out already due to PM inquiries? From me?
I’ve gotten more messages for chunks than I HAVE.
Personally I want to make tutorials first and then part them about because I need the studs to do so... especially if I mess something up. I feel a bit entitled to that. Does your entitlement to have one trump that?

You don’t seem to get that I found them on
-Aug 3rd 2020.
-Worked feverishly with trusted friends IRL to collect within reason make a nice presentation and offer sets to distribute per supply AT COST.
- worked to advocate against price gouging and the feverish bidding once revealed.
-received my personal set August 19th to officially verify.
- revealed EVERYTHING just 6 days later August 27th 2020.
August 30th 2020 a set of boots has more than tripled in price for no reason.

I have half a mind to wipe the whole thing based on this petty kind of junk.

So gjw
Would you have preferred $1000 sets of boots marked up to $100 per stud from day one?
Or to not know at all
Or what we tried to do

keep in mind. When I sell MY studs
They will be about $3 a piece plus shipping because I got a great deal and they are A plus.
Shall I put you in my personal interest list?

Or maybe I WILL keep them

(P.S. I’m not. I’m not a jerk)

Im interested

 

[Zombie Killer]

Everyones getting bent out of shape about a stud on the bottom of a pair of ****kickers. lol

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

Not by you.
James Kenobi 1138
If I recall.
They (most outspokenly) demanded answers and transparency in light of my saying I knew.

If my posts are re-read, I never demanded you, or anyone, do anything.

I shared my thoughts, my feelings, and how I wish things were and how I wish things had been.

I made no demands of anyone.

 

[Brothervader]

Old boys club? I actually sold the majority of mine to people I had never talked to before... first come first served via this site when people PM’d me or on facebook. So... I don’t think so.

I absolutely applaud everyone who was apart of this initial discovery. You handled it with class, and the unfolding of your Discovery was brilliant and exciting! In all fairness, why shouldn't this be shared amongst longtime friends first? Everybody is acting like they had a right to this silly little chunk. I'm grateful for the hard work and research that was put into all of this. I'm impressed with how hard everybody involved has tried to be fair and equitable. The fact that the original pieces were sold at Cost, shows there were no ulterior motives. Of course friends, and long- time acquaintances got first dibs. What else are friends for? If my bestie had access to such a rare part, and he offered it to a stranger before coming to me, I would be upset and insulted. Congratulations to everybody who participated in this exciting Little Treasure Hunt! Well done!

 

[CrankyScorpion]

I really don’t think BRRogers and Verity Cosplay have to keep explaining or defending themselves. It’s clear they acted with the community’s interest in mind. Demand will always outweigh supply with some things.

Bryan made an incredible discovery and, from what he’s written, some of the experience has soured for him, which is a real shame. Don’t let the negativity get you down, man.

 

[Halliwax]

Can I still be a member of the old boys club? Even though I gave all my chunks away for free?

Where the hell did this thread go? ....

 

[ggriffaw]

I don't see where the people who did the work to track this part down did anything wrong. They found the part, acquired some, and announced the part to the forum. It sounds like they did their best to prevent prices from skyrocketing.

Be patient. More will become available over time. Everyone doesn't need to buy a pair of the boots within a week of the announcement.

Thanks for doing the work and letting the forum know what the part is.

 

[Edraven99]

If my posts are re-read, I never demanded you, or anyone, do anything.

I shared my thoughts, my feelings, and how I wish things were and how I wish things had been.

I made no demands of anyone.

Unfortunately how you ‘wish things were” is completely unrealistic to how things are.

What you want is in the “spirit of discovery” people immediately announce their finds so that information is available to everyone in real-time. While this is laudable, in this day and age of eBay and internet search engines, it’s totally unfeasible since even a whisper of a desired piece being found immediately turns into a feeding frenzy and a free for all where the deepest wallet wins and usually the community as a whole suffers as a result.

And you’re also being hypocritical when you say that you dislike the ‘secrecy’ and that there shouldn’t be room for secrecy in the prop community when you yourself directly benefited from such ‘cloak and dagger’ in obtaining one of the most desired pieces in our community in the Derwent Balance Pipe at far below market value I might add.

In fact, it was because of a lack of discretion and a “me first” mentality that almost blew that deal and more than doubled the price as it was.

 

[lonepigeon]

Man, this thread went off the rails.
I thought the discovery was handled about as well as it could have been. I've been on the discovery end of this type of situation many times.
It's always tough. Everyone wants to know NOW.
Patience people.

The people that knew first picked up some stock and sold them cheap to as many people as they could.
If they didn't do that, eBay prices would be even worse right now.
If they had time to gather more stock before revealing the info the situation would be better.
Public pressure is tough. This is why I just try and keep quiet now until I'm ready to reveal something.

Yes, it's fun when discoveries are made in threads with everyone's participation, but that's not a real common occurrence anymore. At least not with vintage stuff. It's more common that a single person will figure out a piece. As soon as the info becomes public knowledge the market is pretty well ruined for everyone driving up the price.

 

[Gerard2567]

I think the discovery is being criticized too harshly. They did act with good intent; I.e. providing those who asked for it with a chunk without letting possible scalpers price gouge it on eBay.

However, it's not like Rogers or any of the other guys pulled a 'certain member' over our heads and said they knew what it was but wasn't going to tell anyone because it "ruins the fun" and in reality are just collecting as many samples as possible to sell only to their friends.