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  1. SD Studios is offline SD Studios
    Mar 7, 2011, 6:22 AM - X wings were not white!!!! #1

    I ate TWO bowls of Wheeties this morning, so I am feeling kind-of feisty. (see my Falcon thread).

    People paint ILM replica models white and it drives me NUTS!

    And people say: GREAT JOB!!!

    Not quite.

    X-WINGS were NOT white!

    Y-WINGS were NOT white!

    The FALCON is NOT white!

    The blockage runner model was NOT "6-feet long".

    etc etc.

    And y'all are missing a lot of details!!!!

    So, who is this jack-off to tell US what is right and wrong? This is the STUDIO SCALE FORUM. You don't mess with us. You will be found, face-down in an alley somewhere, sparky. People have DISAPPEARED for saying less that that. You better watch your step! We are wanted men...we have the death sentence on twel...

    WHAAAATEEEEVER!

    I spent 4 1/2 years going to the archive to study, photograph, scan, measure, fondle, and pantone the original props and models. I picked the models up and played with them in front of the archive staff. Zooom zooommmm. pow! pow!

    I am the guy who would be left alone in the archive when the staff went to lunch for an hour. Seriously.

    THAT'S WHO!


    OOOOH> It is GO time, it's ON now, baby! he stepped in some REAL purty $^T now! He thinks his stuff don't stink!

    I have been watching people make their models WRONG for a long time and bragging about it. I can't be silent any longer.

    If ya'll want some help, I can help! (depending on how much time I have available).

    I have like... 250,000 reference images on my hard-drives and CDs/DVDs, so if anyone needs pics, I have 17 years of prop and model reference collected. Happy to assist in any way that I can...

    Bring it!!!
  2. Qui-Gonzalez's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 6:28 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #2

    This thread was educational for the newbies. Every now and then, people need to know these things though. Most of us know your bonafides.
  3. RPF Premium Member Alric's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 6:28 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #3

    Out if interest what colour are they ? I always thought they were a light grey.
  4. Member Since
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    Mar 7, 2011, 6:48 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #4

    Yeah... what color are they?
  5. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 6:51 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #5

    I thought the general consensus was thet they were painted gloss black, over-coated with white and the sanded down with a scotch-brite pad, until they were some light-ish grey color.

    But, even spending time with the original models would make it hard to discern the original colors as most white paint tends to yellow, over time - especially 20 years of sitting under florescent lighting.

    And unless you took every picture with an 18% grey card in the photo, color correction could be near impossible.

    I'm not arguing with you, Steve, I'm just saying that while the originals might not have been white, 20 year old paint is just as difficult to discern as watching them on screen. Just too many factors to consider to call anything 100% certain.

    -Fred
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    Mar 7, 2011, 7:07 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #6

    I dug around in some older posts from SD Studios to try to find the answer to the "Not White" question. Here is what I found and the reference.

    "It is very difficult to color match an ILM model, as you are looking at 3 or 4 layers of color, blending together to create what your eye now sees. (side note: The Falcon, as well as ILM X-Wings are NOT white. They are a very light gray with that color then sanded down to expose white and darker gray underneath along panel edges…and then oversprayed with a slightly darker gray. The gray color almost always “blows out” in flash photography and really looks white…but it is NOT WHITE. When you see them right in front of your face, you can see this. Sorry. That has been bugging me). The Falcon is light gray with a cool-yellow cast. The X-wings and Y-wings were a warmer gray. That is how I painted both of mine."

    http://www.therpf.com/f10/how-accurize-mr-falcon-40248/


  7. SD Studios is offline SD Studios
    Mar 7, 2011, 7:10 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #7

    Gigatron said: View Post
    I thought the general consensus was thet they were painted gloss black, over-coated with white and the sanded down with a scotch-brite pad, until they were some light-ish grey color.

    But, even spending time with the original models would make it hard to discern the original colors as most white paint tends to yellow, over time - especially 20 years of sitting under florescent lighting.

    And unless you took every picture with an 18% grey card in the photo, color correction could be near impossible.

    I'm not arguing with you, Steve, I'm just saying that while the originals might not have been white, 20 year old paint is just as difficult to discern as watching them on screen. Just too many factors to consider to call anything 100% certain.

    -Fred
    You ARE arguing with me! How DARE you!!!

    SCHMACK! (that was me slapping you in the face with a virtual glove).



    I don't care what everyone read that the ILM guy said they did. I have read ILM interviews that were point-blank WRONG. I have also spoken to a number of the original ILM crew.

    These guys just don't remember. It was a "gig" 35 years ago and they were wasted a lot of the time.

    Sure, the models were probably primered in white, but if you stand RIGHT IN FRONT of the model (as in...your eyes are three inches from the paint) you can see that it isn't black over white sanded down. As both model painters, Jason and I both agreed it was NOT that.

    Let's agree on something. Photos LIE. Even close-up pics can be deceiving. I have seen that, many many times.

    You could SWEAR that you are seeing something in a pic, that upon close-up examination of the same model is just completely different. Period. pics blend colors and details together. There is fore-shortening. Shadows alter colors and details. Flash photos hide and alter LOTS of things.

    Gotta go do some work. I will give more details later.
  8. SD Studios is offline SD Studios
    Mar 7, 2011, 7:14 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #8

    Cool! I have a stalker!

    I HAVE A STALKER!

    How cool am *I*???


    What's in the box?

    WHAT'S... IN... THE... BOX???!!!

  9. Qui-Gonzalez's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 7:18 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #9

    John Doe has the upper hand!
  10. Ghadrack's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 7:49 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #10

    I'll poke the bear with a stick, what the hell..

    So if the true color is an impossible to match mystical concoction of painted, stripped, buffed, sanded, peed on, allowed to dry, heated, frozen, sent intospace for 17 seconds, repainted, sanded, sprayed with fetid hose water and finally hugged by a leperous badger -"SECRET"- off white blue greyish color. Who cares if people are going after "as close as I can get to what the pictures look like"?
    Last edited by Ghadrack; Mar 7, 2011 at 7:50 AM. Reason: "Secret"
  11. dualedge's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 7:49 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #11

    You're definitely not somebody I'd argue with about model details, SD

    Not sure about this minor detail though

    SD Studios said: View Post
    The blockage runner
    Sounds like some kind of newfangled Star Wars inspired tool for clogged artery bypass surgery.
  12. Guy Cowen is offline Guy Cowen
    Mar 7, 2011, 8:07 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #12

    I keep writing paragraph after paragraph & deleting it as I dont want to be taken the wrong way, so I'll just type this instead.

    Nope! I keep deleting!!!

    Gunna go and have some Wheeties, back soon
  13. Scott Graham's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 8:09 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #13

    Is this like Charlie Sheen on RPF or what?! Winning!

    So far, there's no info and this seems pointless. Looking forward to information.
  14. Guy Cowen is offline Guy Cowen
    Mar 7, 2011, 8:12 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #14

    Steve, had you just read Gunpowders thread on his MR Falcon Repaint before posting this?
  15. Choosy moms choose Jif™ RPF Premium Member moffeaton's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 8:39 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #15

    Yeah, it is indeed maddening. The lighting at the archives is not optimal. The models themselves are 30 years old and have changed. There is a film of dirt and dust over everything due to age, cigarettes, etc. Heat from the studio lights probably altered things during filming.

    So speaking personally, I just match this stuff to what I see in my head/on screen - taking an average and getting it to a "I personally like this best" point. Right now I'm on Blue 1, which sure as hell looks white to me in certain lighting/angles. LOL! But it also now looks like a putty color (as it exists as Red 2) - it's maddening.



    Red 5 looks like Red 3, in color. I think?

  16. MonsieurTox is offline MonsieurTox
    Mar 7, 2011, 8:53 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #16

    SD Studios said: View Post

    X-WINGS were NOT white!

    Y-WINGS were NOT white!

    The FALCON is NOT white!

    The 8 Footer ISD IS white !

    Seriously, yeah the X-Wing werent white, except Blue Leader as Jason said, which was weathered enough to match the other birds when converted into Red 2.
  17. Choosy moms choose Jif™ RPF Premium Member moffeaton's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 8:58 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #17

    Yeah, I'm going with white, and a layer of weathering. It looks to be the same color as the armature... which looks white to me! Plus, is was built when the Falcon/Blockade Runner and ISD were bright white (in photos).

  18. Choosy moms choose Jif™ RPF Premium Member moffeaton's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 8:58 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #18

    Your move, dymszo!

    There are four lights!
  19. MonsieurTox is offline MonsieurTox
    Mar 7, 2011, 9:03 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #19

    I found Blue Leader was really hard to paint because you have to be very subtle with all the stains/blast marks etc on the white basecoat !
  20. Scott Graham's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 9:09 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #20

    Charlie Sheen: what did you sprinkle on those wheaties this morning?!

    You know, back in the days of these models, if you didn't use tungsten film indoors the pics would tint yellow too. I assume whoever took most of the pics in those days used indoor film, so the colors are somewhat accurate.

    The problem with photos, even well lit and color corrected, is that the colors often look vague.

    The MR Millennium Falcon looks good to me and is painted off white towards a tan color, as noted above. Looks pretty accurate.

    Jason: what do you think the black tick marks are on that model? Letraset dry transfers or pencil/ink? It seems the marks on the TIE Bomber are hand drawn. I'm curious to know if x-wings were the same.
  21. RPF Premium Member Hogosha's Avatar
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    Mar 7, 2011, 9:10 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #21

    I am going to have a cup of tea, gather my thoughts, and probably write my post in MS word.
  22. Guy Cowen is offline Guy Cowen
    Mar 7, 2011, 9:14 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #22

    General question to all that paint models...

    If you get 2 pots of equal amounts of paint, one white & one medium grey

    If you mix 1/4 of the grey into 3/4 of the white, do you class that as an off white?

    If you mix 3/4 of the white in to 1/4 of the grey do you class that as an off grey?

    Neither are stock white nor grey anymore but I think most would call them white.

    If you buy a stock grey off the shelf, what is its primary colour in the factory...White!

    So if you buy a medium grey off the shel the chances are the colours this is made up from as a percentage white has the highest percentage. So you could class it as an off white of kinds.

    With the colour of the original falcon is it possible that that there was one particular coat that was the most obvious (pre weathering)? Is it possible that this colour had a higher percentage of white in it than any other colour?

    I'm not saying it was painted white, far from it but people do tend to create colours using white as a blank canvas, if I spray a panel pure white, then mist over it with a home mixed grey or other colour & it achieves the same look as the original then surely the look is all that matters.

    If we want to Forge the original them we would expect to have every layer the same & then aged as a final touch. Sometimes we are graced with with visual damage & can see the different layers of paint.

    All in all my point being if we want a replica, its the final look that counts not the incorrect or correct colours that went into it. If we want a forgery then its a hole different ball game & one that takes close inspection as a must to achieve.

    I dont read all the posts or threads here but I don't recall anyone person ever claiming perfection as a replica or forgery. How far do we take the forgery angle also....what pen or pencil was used to sign the ILM crew members names? If a HB pencil was used but the forgery used a 2B then is this now a replica not a forgery.

    Everyone's standards are different Steve, it sounds like you have the closest thing to a Forgery in your possession & I for one would love to see it in the flesh almost as much as ILM version. I love painting & I love people that have an equal or greater passion for it. More ref would be amazing & even more amazing would be examples of colours used & why so people can better understand the logic.

    One thing I always regretted was not using a colour the same as the vintage resin used on some of the ILM models, I missed that trick on my MR Snowspeeder repaint but at the same time I would never claim mine to be better or worse than anyone else's due to this fact. I've seen the Tie Int up close, like maybe 3 inches away. If everyone used the ref pics out there to paint it then know one would come near the real colour, but at the same they are close & all look fantastic.

    "Last mouth full of Wheeties"

    It would be an honour to have you go through your painting technique on any of your builds, Factory pieces, scratch builds, GK's, Airfix, Tamiya or other models. The more knowledge out there the better for all of us. I have read your falcon thread many times a while back & I think it was all taken in but to have you go through it with a fine tooth comb would be amazing. So please try & make the time as it would be the most amazing way to back up your first post in this thread.


    Just out of interest, I once had to replicate the original colour of a 1957 Strat that had been damaged & re finished by the original owner. I was asked to put it back to the factory finish & repair it by his wife for his 60th birthday present. No only did I find out that the colour the guitar was when he bought it wasn't a factory colour, I also found out it wasn't even factory undercoat.

    She handed me a pink (what they call Salmon pink) guitar, I handed her a white guitar back. It turned out that over 40% of the first batch of starts that came into the UK where custom painted by a Luthier as the colours where deemed boring or unsellable. I used an original paint swatch from under the scratch plate & had it replicated by FC Morrell's in Stockport, I learnt then to take the sample from the underside of the paint as this is its truest colour & has less sign of ageing.

    The customer was very happy, I never told him that I didn't use cellulose paint though as it was illegal to spray it in the UK at the time.

    And the point of this, I dunno!!! but it felt nice telling it
  23. ralphee is offline ralphee
    Mar 7, 2011, 9:15 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #23

    Id say he's been sniffing at that "off" white paint for a while TBH.........

    lee
  24. ralphee is offline ralphee
    Mar 7, 2011, 9:21 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #24

    So for giggles, what is the opinion on Red Leader? White....or grey? I will always say white till i see the prop, or better ref, which would be VERY hard, seeing as the prop, is in tatters AFAIK?

    lee
  25. Guy Cowen is offline Guy Cowen
    Mar 7, 2011, 9:21 AM - Re: X wings were not white!!!! #25

    Off Grey mate, Off Grey ?

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