ANH Pyro X-Wing References - Mainly: Red 6 Search
- Thread starter Too Much Garlic
- Start date
gonk27
Sr Member
I just want to say a big collective thanks to everyone who's contributed photos to this thread (and Carsten for starting it) :thumbsup
.. I have a pyro kit winging it's way across the pond to me right now and I'm looking forward to getting started on it once I finished my ROTJ AT-ST. I haven't begun to think about which particular ship to try emulating, and to be honest it's the paintwork that intimidates me far more than the construction of the kit.
A question for the X-Wing Gurus, is there much difference in finishing standards between hero and pyro models? (Build standards and paintwork). I've heard and I think have seen that at least some were painted up very well for models destined to meet a brief firey end. I presume the same paints were used??
Cheers!
.. I have a pyro kit winging it's way across the pond to me right now and I'm looking forward to getting started on it once I finished my ROTJ AT-ST. I haven't begun to think about which particular ship to try emulating, and to be honest it's the paintwork that intimidates me far more than the construction of the kit.
A question for the X-Wing Gurus, is there much difference in finishing standards between hero and pyro models? (Build standards and paintwork). I've heard and I think have seen that at least some were painted up very well for models destined to meet a brief firey end. I presume the same paints were used??
Cheers!
MonsieurTox
Master Member
I think there is no reason for them to have used other paints... We can think with confidence they used the same brand (Floquil for the markings and weathering) and the other brand (can't recall the name) for the basecoat (platinium gray). There were several versions of the same birds, of course Heros had their pyro version(s) but some pyros had also their stand-in (is that the right word ?). Look at the crappy Red 4 on the pic Lee posted above, the paintjob was obviously rushed...
There're at least 4 pyros done with an hero finish (or better than some hero) : pyro Red 3, pyro Red 4, pyro Red 6 and pyro Red 12. They all have a high quality finish and most of them have decals.
Keiko
Sr Member
Don't forget the pyro red leader!
One of the things that I never see discussed is the timeline of the shooting, the disappointing (to George Lucas) first generation of pyro detonations, and the 2nd generation of shots filmed by Joe Viskocil.
I've read in several vintage publications interviews with Joe, and he mentions that there was a lot of pyro work done before he came on board, and that GL was not satisfied with this work. The first set of explosions were said to be flash-bang, whereas George wanted the flaming fireball look that we are now familiar with in the movie.
A quote from Cinefex #65 puts it fairly succintly : "After a series of primacord mishaps - resulting in the obliteration of dozens of breakaway models - pyrotechnician Joesph Viskocil was brought in to orchestrate the miniature explosions."
Now, if we watch the original Star Wars with an eye on explosions, we'll note that with the exception of Red 4, the X wing pyros are crude models with simple sticks for the guns, etc. It is also worth noting that there is that well-known picture of Joe Johnston and Joe Viskocil rigging a Red 4 Pyro. (Though it looks like a cruder version, as M. Tox mentions).
My theory: Richard Edlund et al blew up the beautiful pyros that we are discussing before Viskocil came on board. Viskocil arrived and then had to have the guys rapidly slap together some crude bucks for the remaining X wing work. As time was running out, the "pyros" became cruder and cruder. I think of the beauties in the pictures on the bench as "hero pyros", and ironically they aren't even in the movie for the most part.
Worth noting, however, is that the Red 4 "hero pyro" does appear in the original cut of Ep IV. It's the first X wing shot down, and is in a couple of quick cuts in flight before detonation as well. I posted caps in another thread some time ago.
Other sources corroborating my timeline theory: Cinefantastique Vol 6, No 4 from 1978, Starlog Photo Guidebook - Special Effects #3 from 1980.
Cheers.
One of the things that I never see discussed is the timeline of the shooting, the disappointing (to George Lucas) first generation of pyro detonations, and the 2nd generation of shots filmed by Joe Viskocil.
I've read in several vintage publications interviews with Joe, and he mentions that there was a lot of pyro work done before he came on board, and that GL was not satisfied with this work. The first set of explosions were said to be flash-bang, whereas George wanted the flaming fireball look that we are now familiar with in the movie.
A quote from Cinefex #65 puts it fairly succintly : "After a series of primacord mishaps - resulting in the obliteration of dozens of breakaway models - pyrotechnician Joesph Viskocil was brought in to orchestrate the miniature explosions."
Now, if we watch the original Star Wars with an eye on explosions, we'll note that with the exception of Red 4, the X wing pyros are crude models with simple sticks for the guns, etc. It is also worth noting that there is that well-known picture of Joe Johnston and Joe Viskocil rigging a Red 4 Pyro. (Though it looks like a cruder version, as M. Tox mentions).
My theory: Richard Edlund et al blew up the beautiful pyros that we are discussing before Viskocil came on board. Viskocil arrived and then had to have the guys rapidly slap together some crude bucks for the remaining X wing work. As time was running out, the "pyros" became cruder and cruder. I think of the beauties in the pictures on the bench as "hero pyros", and ironically they aren't even in the movie for the most part.
Worth noting, however, is that the Red 4 "hero pyro" does appear in the original cut of Ep IV. It's the first X wing shot down, and is in a couple of quick cuts in flight before detonation as well. I posted caps in another thread some time ago.
Other sources corroborating my timeline theory: Cinefantastique Vol 6, No 4 from 1978, Starlog Photo Guidebook - Special Effects #3 from 1980.
Cheers.
jedimaster
Sr Member
"Hero pyro's" Now thats a whole new level. I'm not making the Hero.... i'm not even making the Pyro ...........Its a Hero Pyro Dumb ass!.....
Can we abbreviate these to HP 4 OR HP Whatever. If i have to type hero pyro in a post more than twice i think i'll just give up:lol
Can we abbreviate these to HP 4 OR HP Whatever. If i have to type hero pyro in a post more than twice i think i'll just give up:lol
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
Keiko, from everything I've read, that's pretty much my understanding of the progression of the final battle sequence production too. I think you probably nailed it.
Also, if you judge the miniatures more by the quality of the paint and finishing, then I suppose "Hero Pyro" is apt, because there were a number of all-resin "pyro kit" models that were dressed up like the original hero miniatures. The fact that apparently none of them survived filming intact probably says something about their relative value to the crew, however.
For me it's just easier to think of the mixed-material (acrylic, styrene, resin, aluminum, etc.) models that had internal armatures with multiple hard mounting points and posable wings (such as they were) along with lights and electrical harnesses, as the true "heroes" of the first film. And that means each of the all-resin models with fixed wings and a single mounting point (if that) was simply a "pyro", irrespective of finish.
Also, if you judge the miniatures more by the quality of the paint and finishing, then I suppose "Hero Pyro" is apt, because there were a number of all-resin "pyro kit" models that were dressed up like the original hero miniatures. The fact that apparently none of them survived filming intact probably says something about their relative value to the crew, however.
For me it's just easier to think of the mixed-material (acrylic, styrene, resin, aluminum, etc.) models that had internal armatures with multiple hard mounting points and posable wings (such as they were) along with lights and electrical harnesses, as the true "heroes" of the first film. And that means each of the all-resin models with fixed wings and a single mounting point (if that) was simply a "pyro", irrespective of finish.
gonk27
Sr Member
Keiko, gotta agree with your analysis. Very thorough and thanks for sharing the details. Probably a lot of pyros constructed that were never documented. Perhaps seeing the earlier detailed pyros in group shots indiciates there's more photo documentation. Obviously there was some pride there.
Please guys anything but a new acronym. Detailing aside these are still of Pyro construction and exploded. We could call them early Pyros.
Julien, I wasn't aware the base white was documented. Does this still exist today? I noticed Floquil does Reefer White in cans.
Please guys anything but a new acronym. Detailing aside these are still of Pyro construction and exploded. We could call them early Pyros.
Julien, I wasn't aware the base white was documented. Does this still exist today? I noticed Floquil does Reefer White in cans.
Rocketbobs
Well-Known Member
jedimaster
Sr Member
Thanks Man thats excellent as 3 will be my choice for the pyro. The pictures seem a little blury though , perhaps you should send me the wing for closer analysis.:love
Keiko
Sr Member
Here's a few "better" shots from one of the famous table photos. I got this off the Empire of Dreams doc - they go from a closeup to the longer full shot, so I screencapped it at several points. This gives slightly better images than I've seen of this photo before.
I've tried to annotate it, but the Red 6 (?) ship continues to confuse me. In the other pics of it in this post, we see it being painted with a red cockpit frame, but then again, without while being readied for filming.
Then there's the "red cannon" ship...I don't know where that fits into things, but it seems like the upper port cannon has a red panel on it, which Red 6 does not.
So...is there another ship we haven't accounted for yet, or am I crazy? I'd love to hear others' thoughts.
Cheers.
I think the red cannon ship has its canopy masked up in the tabletop shot, so if you mean that ship by the 'prepared for filming' shot, then it doesn't follow that it had a red canopy and lost it before filming. Disregard if you didn't mean that.
Red 6 didn't lose the red entirely, though; it was toned down to more of a greyish-slash-rusty colour IMO. You can get a hint of red in the side view pics from the SAG DVD.
Edit: some folk consider the red cannon ship to be Red 10. From the placement of the stripes, it looks possible. Or it could be the pyro Red 5 (we know - from Tread's pics of the debris - that one existed...). For a long while we all thought that Red 12 in the table top pics was Red 6. It's very hard to spot the stripe gaps, and until Kurt Kuhn leaked the high-res Red 12 underside pic we didn't know for sure that whether they even USED gaps in the stripes to denote reds 7 through 12.
Red 6 did have a lower starboard cannon with that same red band (it doesn't go completely around the cannon body). So I guess, either more than one cannon was painted this same way, or they may have salvaged parts from destroyed models for use in later ones. Or perhaps Red 6 existed as both pyro-hero (c'mon guys, we've used that term for ages!) and pure pyro?
I just know somebody is reading this and sniggering at all the inaccurate guesswork...
Red 6 didn't lose the red entirely, though; it was toned down to more of a greyish-slash-rusty colour IMO. You can get a hint of red in the side view pics from the SAG DVD.
Edit: some folk consider the red cannon ship to be Red 10. From the placement of the stripes, it looks possible. Or it could be the pyro Red 5 (we know - from Tread's pics of the debris - that one existed...). For a long while we all thought that Red 12 in the table top pics was Red 6. It's very hard to spot the stripe gaps, and until Kurt Kuhn leaked the high-res Red 12 underside pic we didn't know for sure that whether they even USED gaps in the stripes to denote reds 7 through 12.
Red 6 did have a lower starboard cannon with that same red band (it doesn't go completely around the cannon body). So I guess, either more than one cannon was painted this same way, or they may have salvaged parts from destroyed models for use in later ones. Or perhaps Red 6 existed as both pyro-hero (c'mon guys, we've used that term for ages!) and pure pyro?
I just know somebody is reading this and sniggering at all the inaccurate guesswork...
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bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
I dont know how much help it would be but I have a screen-used pyro engine and cannon if anyone wants me to post pics.
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
This is the only picture I have to hand but I will take some more for you if you like:
As you can see the cannon and separate cannon tip got pretty badly burned in an explosion and the engine has some bad charring on the inside back and around the edges.Adds to the charm though.Love pyro pieces!
As you can see the cannon and separate cannon tip got pretty badly burned in an explosion and the engine has some bad charring on the inside back and around the edges.Adds to the charm though.Love pyro pieces!
voice in the crowd
Sr Member
Could we get a close up of the engine mount and maybe a look in the turkey feathers? Another shot of the gun parts would be apprecitated as well. Are the two conduits part of the cast or add ons?
Nwerke, I just feel like it's giving these models too much credit. Just because they have nice paintjobs doesn't mean they've got an internal armature or anything but foam resin construction. They sure are pretty but I have a feeling if we had a good look at them all the finishes may fall short of our expectations. There will probably be better versions of some of these paintjobs here.
I think we could safely call any mechanized builds of Franks hollow fuselage Hero Pyros. But how to light the engines?
bigbaddaddyvader
Well-Known Member
Night here now so these are the best I could do with my camera and the flash:
Hope these help some.
Hope these help some.
