New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter silverskyes402
- Start date
Mola Rob
Sr Member
To be fair to Colin how could anyone totally overcome the handicap of being dressed in an outfit that looked like a mix between a psychedelic circus tent and a barber pole? He did his best in a low point in the Doctor Who series and almost managed to raise the quality above the level of the crappy writing and wardrobe misfire. The poor guy was made the scapegoat for many bad decisions.
Solo4114
Master Member
Boy ain't that the truth. If you haven't had a chance, check out the interviews with him on the special features of some of the 6th Doctor DVDs. They talk about how the coat was intended originally to just be for one or two episodes while his personality was all screwy, and then he was eventually going to become much darker and end up in a black velvet outfit. Here's a digitally edited image from one of them:
What an amazingly brilliant episode!!!! This just moved me forty years back through time and space!!!! I cannot believe the difference between last weeks and this. Capaldi absolutely nailed it , the direction by Ben W was superb, totally old school in every way, the D's original appearance nearly brought tears to my eyes and ,incredibly, there was almost nothing I could fault with it (apart from the sudden dry cleaning!!!!). The writing, imagination and direction in this episode made this for me the most perfect single example of a Dr Who program I have ever seen, certainly in this century. I am stunned!!! Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
Moffat. (He wrote the opener, but not this one)
He used to write well, but now he's wallowing in self-references, clichés, and style over substance. It seems like he worked best when he had RTD reining him in.
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
I guess it depends on your tastes for fast-paced, explodey sci-fi, or more word/emotion based explorations of ethical issues.
My musings
Compare and contrast : Last week: Grumpy shouty Doctor, Lesbians! Dinosaur, Strax buffoonery, Doctor on a horse! Petulant Clara, Sulking Clara (cos the Doc got old), Clara needs reassurance, Lesbians again! (hey, remember, they're married!) More Strax buffoonery, etc, etc
This week: Introspective Doctor, Are all soldiers bad? Can a Dalek be good? Hate - is it justified? Clara slaps the Doctor and calls him out on his bull, Just 'cos it's a Dalek doesn't mean you can go around hurting it, a meeting of minds/memories/ideologies, a Dalek calls the Doctor out on his deep-seated hate...
I can forgive a naff/cheesy conceit like shrinking the characters to go into a Dalek, because the story, and the issues, were interesting and engaging.
My musings
Compare and contrast : Last week: Grumpy shouty Doctor, Lesbians! Dinosaur, Strax buffoonery, Doctor on a horse! Petulant Clara, Sulking Clara (cos the Doc got old), Clara needs reassurance, Lesbians again! (hey, remember, they're married!) More Strax buffoonery, etc, etc
This week: Introspective Doctor, Are all soldiers bad? Can a Dalek be good? Hate - is it justified? Clara slaps the Doctor and calls him out on his bull, Just 'cos it's a Dalek doesn't mean you can go around hurting it, a meeting of minds/memories/ideologies, a Dalek calls the Doctor out on his deep-seated hate...
I can forgive a naff/cheesy conceit like shrinking the characters to go into a Dalek, because the story, and the issues, were interesting and engaging.
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Deric
Sr Member
I agree there were some great character elements there (the only stuff I liked about it) but the method was dumb in my opinion. The more I think about it It seemed like quite a few episodes
Season 1's Dalek where Rose and the Doctor respond to a distress call which ends up being a Dalek held captive
Season 6's Lets Kill Hitler with the Antibodies of the Teselecta
Season 7's Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. With them trying to find the big fixit button
The movie Innerspace: Shrinking and being put in a body.
Normally the doctor would just do the following:
A. Meet Dalek and tell it to die
B. Dalek says something to catch the doctors interest.
C. Scan the Dalek with the screwdriver seeing the radiation leak.
D. Agree to help Dalek and then change a setting on the screwdriver and then scan again to repair it.
E. Dalek becomes a threat and the Doctor deals with it before station is destroyed.
AGAIN this is almost exactly what happens in Season 1 episode 6 Dalek. This Dalek even tells the Doctor he would make a good Dalek.
It just seemed like a very lazy delivery point which was sad given that the episode had some good character moments.
-Deric
Season 1's Dalek where Rose and the Doctor respond to a distress call which ends up being a Dalek held captive
Season 6's Lets Kill Hitler with the Antibodies of the Teselecta
Season 7's Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. With them trying to find the big fixit button
The movie Innerspace: Shrinking and being put in a body.
Normally the doctor would just do the following:
A. Meet Dalek and tell it to die
B. Dalek says something to catch the doctors interest.
C. Scan the Dalek with the screwdriver seeing the radiation leak.
D. Agree to help Dalek and then change a setting on the screwdriver and then scan again to repair it.
E. Dalek becomes a threat and the Doctor deals with it before station is destroyed.
AGAIN this is almost exactly what happens in Season 1 episode 6 Dalek. This Dalek even tells the Doctor he would make a good Dalek.
It just seemed like a very lazy delivery point which was sad given that the episode had some good character moments.
-Deric
glunark
Sr Member
You do realise innerspace wasn't the first movie to shrink someone down and put them in a body, even the Doctor said it would make a fantastic film.
When you have been making a show for 50 years, certain elements will repeat, its how you put an individual episode together that counts.
When you have been making a show for 50 years, certain elements will repeat, its how you put an individual episode together that counts.
Deric
Sr Member
I figured it wasn't but it was the only one I've seen. It just sucks that they borrowed elements from the past two seasons and heavily from the first season. It seemed really lazy as I said and seemed to stand out of the episode to me versus the character elements.
I did enjoy the Doctor though and his roughness is a nice change compared to the 11th.
I did enjoy the Doctor though and his roughness is a nice change compared to the 11th.
If you thought that was really lazy then just about everything they have done since Ecclestone came back suffers from exactly the same problem, and worse. The Doctor and the Daleks are inescapably linked together, and I saw them back when they were black and white, not all colours of the rainbow. Believe me when I say I thought I had seen everything done with the Daleks and I was well prepared to crucify the episode, particularly after last weeks terribly dull start.
Yet,against all expectations, this genuinely surprised me. The writing was particualrly sharp, with some killer lines, like "She cares, so that I don't have too" or "Your not my boss, your my Hobby" or the even better "You don't need to be liked you have all the guns". I cannot remember the last time a line of dialogue stuck in my head from an episode of DrWho or was worth remembering, but this one was peppered with them. The Doctor was cold and alien, trying to be more humane than time traveller, and crucially the companion was there to balance that equation for a change. This was the Doctor I remembered, not a " love everybody ,more human than timetraveller " everyman that quite frankly mostly bored the pants off me. And I was delighted that Capaldi pulled it out of the hat (or rather Tardis) by the second episode, with some help from Phil Ford who really raised the game by the writing the episode ( with some guidance from Moffat as well).
For once that blasting bombastic orchestral music that makes every episode feel exactly the same was replaced by a more haunting electronica theme, Ben Wheatley pulled some excellent shots out of the bag to give it a newer harder edged feeling and there wasn't an ounce of flab in it anywhere, apart from the slight over egging of the Doctors dislike of soldiers (pity about UNIT then!!!!) which I take it is all preparation for an alpha male style conflict when Mr Pink comes on board the Tardis.
I like to be occasionally surprised, but it rarely happens these days because I have seen so much previously. Decades of viewing the good, the bad and the horribly indifferent. But this was so great I actually watched the repeat tonight on BBC3 and enjoyed it just as much, and was able to catch more of what was going on. It was great to be able to say something positive about it for a change. Some may not like it, but if you didn't well,its our turn. Those of us that can remember when the Doctor was this dangerously unpredictable alien that looked like a man but was actually a Timelord.
Yet,against all expectations, this genuinely surprised me. The writing was particualrly sharp, with some killer lines, like "She cares, so that I don't have too" or "Your not my boss, your my Hobby" or the even better "You don't need to be liked you have all the guns". I cannot remember the last time a line of dialogue stuck in my head from an episode of DrWho or was worth remembering, but this one was peppered with them. The Doctor was cold and alien, trying to be more humane than time traveller, and crucially the companion was there to balance that equation for a change. This was the Doctor I remembered, not a " love everybody ,more human than timetraveller " everyman that quite frankly mostly bored the pants off me. And I was delighted that Capaldi pulled it out of the hat (or rather Tardis) by the second episode, with some help from Phil Ford who really raised the game by the writing the episode ( with some guidance from Moffat as well).
For once that blasting bombastic orchestral music that makes every episode feel exactly the same was replaced by a more haunting electronica theme, Ben Wheatley pulled some excellent shots out of the bag to give it a newer harder edged feeling and there wasn't an ounce of flab in it anywhere, apart from the slight over egging of the Doctors dislike of soldiers (pity about UNIT then!!!!) which I take it is all preparation for an alpha male style conflict when Mr Pink comes on board the Tardis.
I like to be occasionally surprised, but it rarely happens these days because I have seen so much previously. Decades of viewing the good, the bad and the horribly indifferent. But this was so great I actually watched the repeat tonight on BBC3 and enjoyed it just as much, and was able to catch more of what was going on. It was great to be able to say something positive about it for a change. Some may not like it, but if you didn't well,its our turn. Those of us that can remember when the Doctor was this dangerously unpredictable alien that looked like a man but was actually a Timelord.
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Deric
Sr Member
I think people are missing the points I made about the episode I liked. The character elements were great. I agree on all your points. I loved everything outside of the plot device which felt as I said lazy. The disappointment the Doctor had when all the Dalek saw was his hate for them was brilliant. The fact the ship is called The Aristotle and the ethics of the episode is really clever as well. I seriously doubt most people caught that part of it.
I enjoyed the episode. Didn't think it was awesome but a solid entry. Capaldi nails it though. Flashes of brilliance I see in this guy.
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Pipspecialfx
New Member
I am loving the new DR he is a bit rude isn't he ha ha and he mugged that man and took his coat i love it I really wasn't sure about the new dr but I'm warming to him. X
Solo4114
Master Member
I really enjoyed the episode, in particular the Doctor's struggles with his own morality. I love that they've done away with the "I'm your boyfriend, except not" thing. That needed to go. I'm looking forward to the kind of relationship we saw with Donna and 10.
I have to say, though, I'm not liking the "season arc" thing they're working with, what with folks going to "heaven" and meeting "Missy." I have a feeling we'll be in for another Moffatian slapdash solution for that one. You know why Sherlock has been as successful as it has? Because Moffat is mostly working off of the old Conan Doyle stories, and has Mark Gattis helping him write. Moffat, like many great artists, needs someone keeping him grounded and focused. I worry that this "Missy" thing is gonna be like most of the of his season arcs, which end up feeling very hurried at the end. They always hit emotionally, but they almost never make sense logically.
I have to say, though, I'm not liking the "season arc" thing they're working with, what with folks going to "heaven" and meeting "Missy." I have a feeling we'll be in for another Moffatian slapdash solution for that one. You know why Sherlock has been as successful as it has? Because Moffat is mostly working off of the old Conan Doyle stories, and has Mark Gattis helping him write. Moffat, like many great artists, needs someone keeping him grounded and focused. I worry that this "Missy" thing is gonna be like most of the of his season arcs, which end up feeling very hurried at the end. They always hit emotionally, but they almost never make sense logically.
Totally agree. Not a fan of the season arcs. They just serve to take away from the individual episodes IMO.
I like that the Doctor seems done with the Tennant "I'm so sorry" shtick. Loved the response to "My brother is dead"... "And his sister is alive. You're welcome."
This Doctor is a no nonsense bad ass. I like that a lot.
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I like that the Doctor seems done with the Tennant "I'm so sorry" shtick. Loved the response to "My brother is dead"... "And his sister is alive. You're welcome."
This Doctor is a no nonsense bad ass. I like that a lot.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2
