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  1. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Jan 30, 2010, 7:21 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #26

    tgreco said: View Post
    I'll hide the dremel and bits too, just in case they're "creative"

    man I've seen too many Terantino movies....
    It's the RPF - of course they'll be creative



    PHArchivist said: View Post
    Got some orange paint on the GG. Wings only though, and needs a third coat.
    So, have any idea what you're going to build once the GROUP build starts?




    Post up some pics of what you've got, bro . Is the color callout a particular shade of orange or just like Tamiya's regualr orange?

    -Fred
  2. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Jan 30, 2010, 8:58 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #27

    Here's what I have so far...

    Not sure if the digital image truly relays the orange or not. Its an off-the-shelf Rust-O-Leum color. Tried to fine International Orange, but couldn't find it. The fuse is - of course - just primered.



  3. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Jan 30, 2010, 9:46 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #28

    I think for international orange, krylon or duplicolor makes a line of OSHA safety colors and I believe the orange is equivalent to international orange.


    EDIT: after a little poking around, it's Krylon OSHA msds Safety Orange. And according to color charts, I.O. is a shade darker than S.O., going more towards the red. I bet that if you primer with red undercoating and layer light coats of S.O., you can get a really good shade of I.O.

    -Fred
  4. JMChladek's Avatar
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    Jan 31, 2010, 3:52 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #29

    Orange is a color that is notoriously prone to fading, especially in arid regions like the desert. As such, the "that looks about right" approach is about the best you can do as I think even the Smithsonian had to go that route when they repainted the X-1 for display. Even if they went back to the original paint sample from Bell, chances are the shade would have faded a little as that X-1 had been used on a few flights prior to the Mach 1 attempt. Late in the program, that particular X-1 was repainted in a darker orange shade with a white spine (this was the color it sported in the John Wayne film "Jet Pilot").

    Tamiya recommends mixing their normal acrylic orange shade with a little clear red to darken it a little bit in their X-1 instructions. A couple other companies recommended international orange, although that to me looks a bit too bright compared to the shades used in the 1940s. Revell molded their 1/32 X-1 kit in about the right orange shade, so color matching to that is a possibility.

    Best color to date I've seen for the Glennis from its Mach 1 busting flight is Floquil Reefer Orange, available in their Railroad color line. Although I have to admit the Krylon color PHA used looks like as good a match as any. As I said, "Looks about right" seems to be the best approach here.
  5. RPF Premium Member
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    Jan 31, 2010, 6:53 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #30

    I was looking for it this weekend too. Model Master has the only International Orange and it has the FS number. Fred, you can get it over at Brownies Hobby Shop.
  6. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Jan 31, 2010, 8:07 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #31

    jockdeboer said: View Post
    I was looking for it this weekend too. Model Master has the only International Orange and it has the FS number. Fred, you can get it over at Brownies Hobby Shop.

    Brownies is still in business? I was last there about 15 years ago and they had gone all R/C by then. I remember it being like a little run-down shack in a neighborhood I really didn't want to be in, at the time . I thought (or assumed, I guess) that they had closed shop years ago. Good to see they're still kickin'.

    -Fred
  7. RPF Premium Member
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    Jan 31, 2010, 8:10 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #32

    Yep, they are still there. They have a small selection of kits, RC and other stuff. I order kits from them to help keep them going! They have a fair collection of paints and odds and ends.
  8. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Jan 31, 2010, 9:43 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #33

    JMChladek said: View Post
    Orange is a color that is notoriously prone to fading, especially in arid regions like the desert. As such, the "that looks about right" approach is about the best you can do as I think even the Smithsonian had to go that route when they repainted the X-1 for display. Even if they went back to the original paint sample from Bell, chances are the shade would have faded a little as that X-1 had been used on a few flights prior to the Mach 1 attempt. Late in the program, that particular X-1 was repainted in a darker orange shade with a white spine (this was the color it sported in the John Wayne film "Jet Pilot").

    Tamiya recommends mixing their normal acrylic orange shade with a little clear red to darken it a little bit in their X-1 instructions. A couple other companies recommended international orange, although that to me looks a bit too bright compared to the shades used in the 1940s. Revell molded their 1/32 X-1 kit in about the right orange shade, so color matching to that is a possibility.

    Best color to date I've seen for the Glennis from its Mach 1 busting flight is Floquil Reefer Orange, available in their Railroad color line. Although I have to admit the Krylon color PHA used looks like as good a match as any. As I said, "Looks about right" seems to be the best approach here.
    That is fantastic info. I preesumed it was re-painted for the display, but wasn't positive.

    I'd agree on the Reefer Orange - has the slight bit of yellow in it that I see.

    What do you think about the sheen from its mach 1 flight? Gloss, satin, or flat?
  9. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Jan 31, 2010, 11:49 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #34

    I would say gloss, pre-flight. Afterwards, that may be a different story .

    The Coast Guard paints all their equipment in International Orange. I suppose, as a Hi-Viz color, they'd use anything to make it easier to see (even a glint from the sun).

    -Fred
  10. RPF Premium Member
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    Jan 31, 2010, 6:20 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #35

    I bought 2 spray cans of the Floquil Reefer Orange on eBay. Will let you guys know what if looks like once I get something sprayed. I opened my kit up and it looks pretty nice. The areas that need work are where the wheel doors attach and where the antenna's attach. Anyone know where to get a 1/18 Astronut?
  11. RPF Premium Member
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    Jan 31, 2010, 7:05 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #36

    ok, I went though my Aerofax on the X-1. Not pics of the pilot in the cockpit, except one guy in a leather jacket. Did they where a pressure suit? I guess not, as it did not fly very high...?
  12. JMChladek's Avatar
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    Jan 31, 2010, 8:07 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #37

    Based on what I've seen in the photos, it looks very flat to me. I doubt it was gloss, but even if it was, at best I would go semi-gloss with it as the environment of 1940s Muroc dry lake probably wasn't too kind to glossy paint jobs when the sand went blowing around. Most every model I've seen done of the plane has been in flat colors.

    As for International Orange, it is too red in hue for the Glennis. Given how red/orange it looks, I have a feeling this is the shade that was selected for the plane late in its career when it got the white spine. But it is too red in shade for the X-1 for its Mach 1 flight. I tried to find a history of International Orange to see when the shade was so named and couldn't find a specific date. But, apparently the Golden Gate Bridge is painted that color (it probably wasn't called that color though until well after WW2).

    As for Yeager, the costume worn by the Sam Shepard in "The Right Stuff" was pretty close to what Yeager wore and probably exact since Yeager was a technical advisor and Phillip Kaufmann (the director) was obsessive about visual details like that (the story was something else though). He was wearing a brown leather flight jacket and I believe US Army Air Corps style uniform brown pants or a one piece flight suit, still common for that period (the USAF became its own department about a month before the Mach 1 flight). I don't believe he had a parachute on (not that he could have bailed out anyway). An oxygen mask covered his lower face and goggles covered his eyes (probably P-51 based). The movie showed him wearing what looked like a 1930s football helmet, but black and white period footage from a few months after his flight showed him wearing a gold jet pilot helmet when he reenacted his flight for the news reel cameras. BTW, a small screen version of that news reel footage can be found here (not sure when the dialog was done though as it implies the footage was filmed after the plane was selected to go to the Smithsonian):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager

    The altitude flown on the Mach 1 run wasn't high enough to require a pressure suit (35,000 feet). Later on when the experimental jets were doing altitude as well as speed runs, the pilots were wearing partial pressure suits (what Sam Shepard had on for Yeager's out of control at Mach 2 flight in "The Right Stuff" is what they typically wore). Full pressure suits like what astronauts wore typically didn't come about until 1957-58. The US Navy I believe was the first agency to use them and I believe the first X plane to use them at Edwards was the X-15.

    The Revell 1/32 X-1 kit has a pilot figure styled like Yeager from "The Right Stuff" so it could be used as a 3D reference for doing one in 1/18 scale. I understand Ultimate Soldier has done a 1/18 (i.e. 3 3/4" action figure scale) P-51 pilot figure, so that could be used as a basis to make an X-1 pilot in this scale. Of course, if one can't find one of those, you could always get an action figure of the same size and customize it with some two part epoxy putty for the details.
    Last edited by JMChladek; Jan 31, 2010 at 8:48 PM.
  13. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2010, 7:45 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #38

    JMChladek said: View Post
    Based on what I've seen in the photos, it looks very flat to me. I doubt it was gloss, but even if it was, at best I would go semi-gloss with it as the environment of 1940s Muroc dry lake probably wasn't too kind to glossy paint jobs when the sand went blowing around. Most every model I've seen done of the plane has been in flat colors.
    You are truly a wealth of information!

    I painted the fuse yesterday. I got a very nice gloss-to-semi-gloss finish. I'm a bit stymied as I really like the finish, but know that - really - it will need to be altered.

    For a couple of reasons...

    First, I'd agree with what you say about the conditions the plane existed in. And the mach-bustin flight was not its first, was it? So by the time Yeager flew the craft, the finish was likely worn a bit. I feel that by wet-sanding to 600 through 1,000 may give a naturally worn, yet still smooth finish with a slight sheen.

    Second, I'll probably need/choose to seal the decals with a clear coat.

    Regarding decals, per the box images, the decals are a bit transparent. The white in the decals bleeds orange. Will likley need to undercoat the decal areas with white. Not looking forward to that.
  14. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2010, 8:41 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #39

    2 things;

    First, Rob, instead of sanding, try mixing your base orange with a bit of flat white, then misting the entire build. This should flatten the sheen, plus add a bit of sun fading without the chance of sanding away any detail. Then you can add a bit more white and hit the center of each panel. The idea is to make it look like it's been sitting out in the desert sun, but not look like it had white dots painted all over it. I suggest taking a piece of scrap styrene, basecoating it with orange and then try the post-shading technique.

    I used it on a corsair I built. If done correctly, it's very subtle and very hard to see, but it's definitely noticeable if compared to a straight color



    IMPORTANT STUFF BELOW

    *********************

    And secondly - if we have any graphic/artsy type people in here, I need a favor. I think we should come up with a badge, of sorts, that we can all put in our signature - something that lets others know we are/were part of the group build. Only two requirements; 1) It has to reflect the theme of the build and 2) it has to fit within the space requirements of the signature. Anybody is welcome to come up with a design, just post up here. If we have multiple designs, we'll let the group decide which one they prefer.

    -Fred
    Last edited by Gigatron; Mar 2, 2010 at 10:44 AM.
  15. RPF Premium Member
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    Feb 1, 2010, 6:31 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #40

    I just ordered one of these:
    http://www.badcattoys.com/noname2.html
  16. JMChladek's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2010, 6:41 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #41

    jockdeboer said: View Post
    I just ordered one of these:
    http://www.badcattoys.com/noname2.html
    That is the best pilot for a manned X-1 IMHO.

    I had a feeling the decals would be a little transparent. At least the borders of the star and bar insignias are so large that trapping the artwork over white painted areas on the model should be relatively easy if you did well enough with your masking jobs. The fuselage masking admittedly will be a little tricky given the curves, but the wings shouldn't cause any real problems.

    Sanding the paint sounds like it could work, although usually I tend to go for clear coating over the top rather then sanding. Plus, that might take care of the paint but the decals will be going over that. As such, you'll pretty well have to clear coat after the decals are on and then sand the clear coat if the sheen isn't what you are after to get the finish all uniform.

    As for doing a GB logo Gig, do we have any size restrictions? Do you want it vertical, horizontal, or something more like a mission patch?
    Last edited by JMChladek; Feb 1, 2010 at 6:50 PM.
  17. RPF Premium Member
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    Feb 1, 2010, 6:45 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #42

    I suppose it will be my first real post then. The website pics do not show much, but it looks good and is articulated.
  18. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2010, 9:35 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #43

    Here's a look at the fuse (and a better idea of the color)...

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    Feb 1, 2010, 9:44 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #44

    PHArchivist said: View Post
    Here's a look at the fuse (and a better idea of the color)...
    Rob, that's looking really cool! You're going to be finished with it before our group build actually begins... you must be thinking about something to build next (aside from the Death Star, and another Moonraker shuttle, and that ST: TMP Enterprise you have on the shelf, and, and... So really, what's next from PHArchivist Light & Magic??

    JMChladek said: View Post
    As for doing a GB logo Gig, do we have any size restrictions? Do you want it vertical, horizontal, or something more like a mission patch?
    A mission patch! That's a terrific idea!! I have no design talent to offer but I really would like to see one!
  20. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2010, 10:54 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #45

    vistaVision said: View Post
    that ST: TMP Enterprise you have on the shelf, what's next from PHArchivist Light & Magic??
    Two now, actually! Have two kits - one with the aztec decals, one without...

    vistaVision said: View Post
    what's next from PHArchivist Light & Magic??
    Ha! Love it...!


    You see what I mean about the finish though?

    Pretty smooth (I got lucky!), and fairly glossy. Its a pretty nice finish, and I don't really want to muck with it. But its not accurate to what the plane likely looked like in 1947, and I have decals to seal.

    Oh what to do...
  21. JMChladek's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2010, 1:42 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #46

    Well, maybe it won't be exactly accurate in coloring, but it is looking NICE!
  22. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2010, 5:07 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #47

    JMC - Love the mission patch idea . The only size restriction would be set by the signature guidelines. Whatever the largest size that can fit in the signature box, is good for me.

    -Fred
  23. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2010, 11:46 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #48

    JMChladek said: View Post
    Well, maybe it won't be exactly accurate in coloring, but it is looking NICE!
    Do you mean the actual orange tone? Is it not quite right?

    Or are you referring to the sheen, if I don't further modify it?
  24. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2010, 11:46 AM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #49

    jockdeboer said: View Post
    The areas that need work are where the wheel doors attach and where the antenna's attach.
    What do you plan on modifying in these areas?
  25. JMChladek's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2010, 12:05 PM - Re: First Ever Official RPF Group Build Sign-Up Thread - all experience levels wanted #50

    PHArchivist said: View Post
    Do you mean the actual orange tone? Is it not quite right?

    Or are you referring to the sheen, if I don't further modify it?
    Given that neither of us were there in 1947 to exactly see what the coloring was, I would say the coloring looks fine to me. My apologies if I was implying it was wrong as I pretty much already came to the conclusion that trying to hit the right shade of orange on the plane at that moment is a moving target anyway (blame it on hanging out with aircraft modelers who also tend to be rivet counters). It looks fine to me. It is a bit glossy right now, but after you decal and either sand it to remove the sheen or clearcoat, then that will change its appearance of course.

    It is beautiful!

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