Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber

The only problem I see with believeing that the MOM sliding box Luke ROTJ lightsaber was not used in the Vader "I see you have constructed" scene is that the grip width variation, the pommel cube assymatry, and the placement of the tri-ring hole in the pommel of the lightsaber used in that scene seems to match exactly with lightsaber shown at MOM.

The machined ROTJ stunt has those same features, but the control box is solid. During the Yuma shoot though the stunt's paint job is very weathered and the control box plate is missing.
Could it have been refurbished for the Vader scene with the same control box and then later given the slide open control box for the proposed scene of Luke building it? Maybe.
 
Just note. I personally witnessed the prop guy "loading" R2 for that shooting lightsaber gag. There were at least 5 stunt lightsabers used. I saw them shoot it that many times, different saber each time.
 
The machined ROTJ stunt has those same features, but the control box is solid. During the Yuma shoot though the stunt's paint job is very weathered and the control box plate is missing.
Could it have been refurbished for the Vader scene with the same control box and then later given the slide open control box for the proposed scene of Luke building it? Maybe.

Vader scene was shot at Elstree prior to Yuma shoot.

Possible, though, that the closeup insert of the saber in his hands was done as a pickup in the States late in the game...
 
Possible, though, that the closeup insert of the saber in his hands was done as a pickup in the States late in the game...

I'd say that's very likely.

The machined ROTJ stunt doesn't appear until the Yuma shoot. The ROTJ duel at Elstree appears to have been shot completely with the refurbished ANH stunts.

My guess is that the prop dept was tasked with creating a detailed Hero ROTJ saber, a spare stunt and the R2 launching sabers while UK studio filming was already in progress.
 
From talking with various people more knowledgeable than myself in these matters it is also my understanding that the Vader insert "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" close-up of the hero was shot at a pick-up in the states and that the hero was constructed late on specifically for this shot.Not definitive of course but that is just my understanding through talking with others.
I would also like to add here,as a warning as I have just discovered that I was burned,that the Luke ROTJ saber that I have that was sold as being machined by Norman Harrison was not indeed machined by Norman as it seems he buys these in from another source to sell for this purpose.So another reason to beware.
 
I just posted a new article related to this auction on my blog:

LINK

Did anyone here happen to save the images/content from the January 2006 Elstree auction on eBay for another ROTJ Luke lightsaber?

Does anyone have any additional thoughts about "green vs. blue"?

Thanks for all the information and input...

Jason
 
A few people here have claimed that Elstree Props is not reputable to deal with, but I haven't seen anything specific to back up these claims.

So I ask, why are you saying they're not reputable to deal with? Are you basing this on heresay, or have you personally been burned by them? Please be more specific. Thanks.
 
A brief search of stuff they sell on eBay and via their site shows one-off 'original' items being sold over and over again complete with 'COA's'.

They could say 'cast from original', but they don't.

Apart from that I haven't heard anything bad about their customer service or anything else.
 
I'll add my 2¢ to this.

The saber Luke wears on his belt, that features in ALL of the Elstree Studio shot principal photography is what has become known in Fandom as the V.2. It was a left over Obi-Wan Kenobi stunt from ANH, which had the blade cut off resulting in the ROTJ saber "nipple". This saber was cast aluminum and is irregular in the extreme, not only in its ring positions and angles but in its overall cross section which is less than round in many places.

This prop features in ALL of the studio shot scenes. It is the saber handed over to Vader on the landing platform. It is the saber in the Emperor's hands AND on his chair in the throne room scenes. It is the saber Luke throws away when tempted to turn to the dark side. It is NOT the close-up saber from the "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" scene.

That insert, shot after principal photography had wrapped, was filmed in the States. From what MR were able to ascertain a cleaner, prettier machined saber was used in the hand roll-over scene. If you freeze the frame you will see that its control box doesn't resemble what we have all called the "HERO" version, as it has simple copper/brass angle on the top face of the box and not the more elaborate step which seems to feature on some of the "HERO" sabers.

What we all known as the ROTJ Hero saber, was in fact the machined stunt saber, used for all of the dueling/fighting scenes shot in the US. It is still unclear if this saber ever saw use in the UK for the final duel btw Luke and Vader as in that scene it looks like they utilized a second, bladed Obi-Wan ANH stunt.

I have pics that some folks here also have that show Mark resting his chin on what is clearly the "HERO" but with a missing control box top and a short blade attached to it. It makes sense that the fighting props should have been machined for the exact purpose of fighting.

In Yuma and in Crescent City, Luke continues to wear the V.2 on his costume and it is this saber he catches on board the Sand Skiff before he ignites it. After he does so it becomes the machined stunt saber complete with short blade.

Luke wears a different version of the V.2 during his climb up the side of Jabba's Barge. This V.2 features a wholly different paint job that is more consistent with it's look in ANH, AND has a standard Graflex clamp and lever but with the holes drilled into it. in the same positions as what we now come to think of as the "shared stunt" saber. I have a very clear picture of that.

The "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" close-up saber seems to be a machined stunt, but with a different control box. The box lacks the inward angle at its base and the previously mentioned copper/brass edging lacks a step.

As micdavies pointed out in his first hand account, there were MANY copies of the saber for the firing from R2's head sequence. You never hold up production looking for one saber to reload when you can cast multiples.

The saber scene when R2's dome hatch opens, lacks the ROTJ "nipple". Was this cast from a completely different saber? Or was the nipple simply ground off the allow the saber to better fit beneath the hatch? I can't answer that one. My investigations never got that far.

My beliefs are based on what we could research from the archives.

The Endor scenes were shot early in production of ROTJ. The saber Luke wears on his costume is the V.2 complete with the ESB connector board edge strip in the top of the control panel. Lonepigeon turned up a great pic of Logray holding it that clearly shows it there. It may also have had TWO side bars still intact at that time, however the lever in the Graflex clamp was NOT the standard one. This had been replaced with a longer lever that has a more rounded profile (the confusing bent nail theory).

At some point during production the connector board edge strip fell out and the saber lost a side bar.

I personally theorize that the V.2 (or one of them, at least) was altered post production to look more like what is now held to be the "HERO" version. A detailed examination of this prop reveals that it was once painted in the Obi-Wan ANH colors. They're evident all over the prop plus the surface of the emitter has been ground down at an odd angle, to remove the nipple perhaps? But you can clearly see the black paint pitted into the surface of the metal that used to represent the circle of holes on the ANH stunt.

As for what Elstree Props have that are bona fidé? I have no clue. They had a picture on their site looked like the V.2 so I called them to enlist their help in my initial research. They were less than helpful and their recollections seemed inconsistent. When they misrepresented my conversation with them to a third party who is a member of the board here I decided to not pursue their "assistance". I subsequently learned that the "V.2" on their site had been made by a board member here. NOT that they ever misrepresented it as the genuine article, nor did they volunteer that it fan made.

How many sabers were used during the production of ROTJ? I have no honest idea. I arrived at my research for the MR V.2 by combining through archival photographs, examining the remaining props in the Archives and with some eagle-eyed assistance from Lonepigeon.

Barry.
 
All the resin casts used in production were taken from the metal hero saber (the one seen at MoM). The nipple remains on that casting but apparently was ground off on the one(s) made for the r2 sequence.


.
 
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Hi Barry,

Thanks very much for the wealth of information and results from your research - I really appreciate it.

A few questions (and I understand if you cannot answer any or all of them):

Do you know if Elstree Props was responsible for making any of the lightsabers you discuss above as used in filming?

Did you ever come across any information related to manufacture of any lightsabers containing the green crystal?

Are you familiar enough with the sequence of filming or shooting schedule that would make it in any way feasible that a lightsaber would be constructed at the direction of the production, following the release of the "Revenge" theatrical trailer (with blue lightsaber SPFX added in) for this "cave/construction" scene that may or may not have been filmed?

Pertaining to this comment...

I subsequently learned that the "V.2" on their site had been made by a board member here. NOT that they ever misrepresented it as the genuine article, nor did they volunteer that it fan made.

Is the lightsaber you reference this one?

LINK

ElstreeCasedLightsaber.jpg


Thanks again sincerely for all of the information and insights.

Jason
 
All the resin casts used in production were taken from the metal hero saber (the one seen at MoM). The nipple remains on that casting but apparently was ground off on the one(s) made for the r2 sequence.
The hero metal saber was functional and held a rod via a set screw on the nipple. I believe that it held the short blade we see in the footage on the sail barge/skiff where luke is swinging around the saber.
This footage I'm talking about is before special effects added.

It makes sense that because the shared stunt and v2 were already rigged to hold a full length blade that they were the ones used in the dueling scenes.

The "Hero" seen on display and it's casting(s) so far have not been identified on film. The machined ROTJ stunt with the short blade Barry mentions is a different saber - it matches the one Vader is holding except in Yuma it was missing the top plate on the control box.

The shared stunt and V2 appear to be the only dueling sabers available for UK filming everything else was built after.
 
The screen used saber shot out of r2 was a resin cast from the metal hero MoM saber.
The metal hero MoM saber was certainly rigged for a short blade. Although thinking about it further, the control box as it exists now would never have held up to any stunt work. The grey and copper sections were only delicately held on with epoxy and would have been super easily broken off.

Either way, the resin sabers were cast from the MoM hero as the control boxes match exactly.
 
I have pics that some folks here also have that show Mark resting his chin on what is clearly the "HERO" but with a missing control box top and a short blade attached to it. It makes sense that the fighting props should have been machined for the exact purpose of fighting.

Just to clarify a little because it gets confusing... Barry is refering to the REAL Hero saber here, not the one we've come to call the Hero that has been seen at the Magic of Myth and other tours.

Luke wears a different version of the V.2 during his climb up the side of Jabba's Barge. This V.2 features a wholly different paint job that is more consistent with it's look in ANH, AND has a standard Graflex clamp and lever but with the holes drilled into it. in the same positions as what we now come to think of as the "shared stunt" saber. I have a very clear picture of that.

I believe like Barry that this is the 'shared stunt' and that it was likely repainted post-filming for the first Lucasfilm archives exhibit (hence the bright copper paint we see on it now).


The Endor scenes were shot early in production of ROTJ. The saber Luke wears on his costume is the V.2 complete with the ESB connector board edge strip in the top of the control panel. Lonepigeon turned up a great pic of Logray holding it that clearly shows it there. It may also have had TWO side bars still intact at that time, however the lever in the Graflex clamp was NOT the standard one. This had been replaced with a longer lever that has a more rounded profile (the confusing bent nail theory).

At some point during production the connector board edge strip fell out and the saber lost a side bar.

I am almost certain the V2 was always missing the one sidebar since I have seen clear photo evidence that it only had one during the filming of ANH. It had a 7-bubble strip, but that fell out during the filming of ANH (there are pics of it - both with and without during filming of the ANH duel).
The circuit board may have been added during ESB since it was used as a practice saber during production (the board is exactly like Luke's ESB).

I really need to rewrite all this for PoSW and add a page for the Real ROTJ Hero saber. :)

PS - Elstree has also displayed (and apparently sold) Boba Debt replica Merr-Sonn blaster(s) as original props coming from the "personal collection of John Stears". There's just been too many lies out of them for me to trust anything they say - which is unfortunate because someone there must know some real facts.
 
The screen used saber shot out of r2 was a resin cast from the metal hero MoM saber.
The metal hero MoM saber was certainly rigged for a short blade. Although thinking about it further, the control box as it exists now would never have held up to any stunt work. The grey and copper sections were only delicately held on with epoxy and would have been super easily broken off.

Either way, the resin sabers were cast from the MoM hero as the control boxes match exactly.

The 'MoM Hero' and the 'Real Hero/Vader handled saber' (we really need a name for this one) do seem to match in overall dimensions including the uneven grip spacing. Either they were both made at the same time and detailed differently or the control box was changed. I'm guessing they are two separate sabers because as you said the R2 sabers have the detailed control box like the 'MoM Hero' and they were used at the same time as the 'Real Hero' with the very solid, simpler control box.
It wouldn't make sense if they cast it with the detailed box, changed the box to the simpler one for filming, and then changed it back - not impossible, just seems unlikely.
 
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