Gino/CRPROPS "appraisal" Helmet #8

Originally posted by GINO@Jan 29 2006, 08:57 PM
I don't feel I OWE anyone an explaination.

I have no problem discussing ANY aspect of my involvement in regards to trooper related stuff (or any SW prop related stuff). In fact, I've spoken to many and never dodged any questions and was always quite frank with my explainations.

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Gino,

Firstly I love your show off threads for your helmets and respect your work greatly as do many on this forum.

With all due respect to you if you advertise something saying it has touched the inside of an ANH screen used helmet it either has or it hasn't. It just needs a yes or no answer.

I understand clearly that yourself and Jez and a few others seem to have personal differences and that can be seen by all on the forum on many occasions but Jez has asked some pretty simple questions and he and others possibly deserve an answer to those questions.

The truth is anyone selling replicas of screen used props is held accountable for the provenance of their items and this provenance and the quality of workmanship is what gives them their reputation. Your reputation and provenance is intact and by answering Jez's questions still should be. By not answering you will cast a shadow of doubt on yourself in the eyes of others.

If you have no problem discussing ANY aspect of your involvement in regards to trooper related stuff then just answer him and I am sure you will answer your critics admirably .

Cheers Chris.

I've come to realize that nothing that I say will get my point across to Jez and his boys like a nice photo.

Here's one for you.

Originally posted by voice in the crowd+Jan 29 2006, 06:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(voice in the crowd @ Jan 29 2006, 06:55 PM)</div>

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@Jan 29 2006, 08:57 PM
I don't feel I OWE anyone an explaination.

I have no problem discussing ANY aspect of my involvement in regards to trooper related stuff (or any SW prop related stuff). In fact, I've spoken to many and never dodged any questions and was always quite frank with my explainations.

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Gino,

Firstly I love your show off threads for your helmets and respect your work greatly as do many on this forum.

With all due respect to you if you advertise something saying it has touched the inside of an ANH screen used helmet it either has or it hasn't. It just needs a yes or no answer.

I understand clearly that yourself and Jez and a few others seem to have personal differences and that can be seen by all on the forum on many occasions but Jez has asked some pretty simple questions and he and others possibly deserve an answer to those questions.

The truth is anyone selling replicas of screen used props is held accountable for the provenance of their items and this provenance and the quality of workmanship is what gives them their reputation. Your reputation and provenance is intact and by answering Jez's questions still should be. By not answering you will cast a shadow of doubt on yourself in the eyes of others.

If you have no problem discussing ANY aspect of your involvement in regards to trooper related stuff then just answer him and I am sure you will answer your critics admirably .

Cheers Chris.

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To address Jez would be to give him a certain level of respect I simply don't credit him.
I've answered the questions many times over in other threads. There certainly is a difference of provenance between my first version of helmet and my second. Either way, I've never misled anyone.

If not answering to Jez casts doubt in the eyes of others, then oh well. I don't recognize Jez as an authority at any capacity. Those close to me or directly involved already know what's up and that's all that really matters to me. You're never going to convince everyone anyway, especially Jez and his AA cronies.

Wow.....a trooper helmet with a bunch of malformities and bumps.

Am I supposed to be impressed?

Frankly recreating all the crappy, poorly made details of these things, no two of which were identical, seem absolutely NUTS. Let alone arguing about them.

If anything nobodies helmet should look exactly like anyone elses since, "that's how the originals are". Doesn't that make more sense?

Gino your rep went out the window when you allied with CRProps. Has everyone forgetten the Graflex Reborn events already?

Get over yourself. Answer the questions.

Am I the only one thinks one or two of these new helmets needs to be in the braks collection? OK, just wanted to make sure everyone else agrees with me. Thanks for your support.

Originally posted by micdavis@Jan 29 2006, 07:08 PM
Wow.....a trooper helmet with a bunch of malformities and bumps.

Am I supposed to be impressed?

Frankly recreating all the crappy, poorly made details of these things, no two of which were identical, seem absolutely NUTS. Let alone arguing about them.

If anything nobodies helmet should look exactly like anyone elses since, "that's how the originals are". Doesn't that make more sense?

Gino your rep went out the window when you allied with CRProps.  Has everyone forgetten the Graflex Reborn events already?

Get over yourself. Answer the questions.

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It's obvious that you don't know very much about the nuances of the film used helmets or you wouldn't be saying that. The very fact that you have a distaste for the malformities and bumps tells me everything I need to know about you and the value of your input in these discussions.

You can go back to your seat in the sidelines now which it is clearly where you belong in this topic.

Your comment about CRProps is not even worth addressing.

Originally posted by GINO@Jan 30 2006, 12:07 AM
To address Jez would be to give him a certain level of respect I simply don't credit him.
I've answered the questions many times over in other threads. There certainly is a difference of provenance between my first version of helmet and my second. Either way, I've never misled anyone.

If not answering to Jez casts doubt in the eyes of others, then oh well. I don't recognize Jez as an authority at any capacity. Those close to me or directly involved already know what's up and that's all that really matters to me. You're never going to convince everyone anyway, especially Jez and his AA cronies.

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Fair enough it's your prerogative if you don't want to answer him nobody can make you.

Great pics of your helmet. I disagree with Braks though I don't think one should end up in his collection I think it should end up in mine

Cheers Chris.

Not so fun to have your integrity challenged is it.

The "nuances"?.?.? LOL Get over it.. They are not finely hand-crafted pieces of ART.

They are slapped together pieces of crap that have sat on a shelf somewhere for twenty five freakin years or longer.

They could be changed in ways you would never know and never could know.

Put the ego down and step away from the helmet.

For the record, you've never answered the "hard questions". Why start now?

edit: It must suck loudly to be treated like you continuously treat others. Anyone else would actually learn from their past mistakes.........you will simply skirt around and make up excuses about yours. You never really come back to the question though.

It's kinda ugly looking down that same barrel you've pointed at so many others, eh?

Do try to show respect to someone other than yourself ..........just once. It may seem foreign to you, but it would do you alot of good. It wouldn't hurt the rest of us either.

How bout just answering the silly little question and possibly putting a bandaid on your own credibility? There might be members of your own fanclub who would actually be interested in the answer too.

Originally posted by micdavis@Jan 30 2006, 12:23 AM
They are not finely hand-crafted pieces of ART. 

They are slapped together pieces of crap that have sat on a shelf somewhere for twenty five freakin years or longer.

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.................... 100 die-hard trooper helmet fan's heads just exploded in unison. WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH...

they are not slapped together piece of crap
they are not slapped together piece of crap
they are not slapped together piece of crap
they are not slapped together piece of crap..

oh.. who am I kidding. yeah, they are, but I love them anyway.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Good point Braks...........it's true.........every single ST helmet ever made is still a slapped together piece of hunk of lump of crap plastic. And that's the same helmets we all love in spite of that truth. Not one is any crappier than another when they are all loved by someone.

MR is making a "work of art" with their ST helmet. It's not screen accurate like all the crappy ones out there..........but it can be called art knowing how they are making it.

The art is not the prop itself..........but how we see it on the big screen right???

peace,

Dave

In all seriousness, while I am not sure you could call the originals a work of art, I think the recreation of them definitely takes a great deal of artistic skill and effort and not just anyone could do it. I think that is the most difficult thing in prop replication is that we are trying to recreate imperfect objects which, as micdavis pointed out, is virtually impossible. I think the trooper helmet is no different than sabers or fett or anything else. It was easy the first time around, creating the originals. They had nothing that needed to be followed. However for us, it is an incredible, almost insurmountable task to make them match the carefree sloppiness of the originals.

Pour a little plaster, or hydrocal, or hydrostone into an original helmet you were freakin' lucky or rich enough or kissed enough ass to get your hands on.

It is not rocket science for god's sake.

To spend the time to match every perceived or otherwise warble and bump on a helmet is insane at the least, pathetic at best.

Originally posted by micdavis@Jan 30 2006, 01:56 AM
Pour a little plaster, or hydrocal, or hydrostone into an original helmet you were freakin' lucky or rich enough or kissed enough ass to get your hands on.

It is not rocket science for god's sake.

To spend the time to match every perceived or otherwise warble and bump on a helmet is insane at the least, pathetic at best.

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This is mostly what this hobby is about or am i wrong? Every little bump or warble is one step closer to what we've seen on screen and learned to appreciate.

Edit:
If you prefer an idealised Helmet, then for all means please leave this thread and post your rants somewhere else.

It's exactly what the hobbie is about.

Originally posted by mike d+Jan 29 2006, 10:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mike d @ Jan 29 2006, 10:13 PM)</div>

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@Jan 30 2006, 01:56 AM
Pour a little plaster, or hydrocal, or hydrostone into an original helmet you were freakin' lucky or rich enough or kissed enough ass to get your hands on.

It is not rocket science for god's sake.

To spend the time to match every perceived or otherwise warble and bump on a helmet is insane at the least, pathetic at best.

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So why in the earth name are you a member here at the RPF??
This is mostly what this hobby is about or am i wrong? Every little bump or warble is one step closer to what we've seen on screen and learned to appreciate.

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umm :unsure

yeah.

let me just say that i dont want to take any sides, but have talked with Gino here, on the phone etc. and he is a very nice guy whos passion for TK helmets is unrivaled IMHO, just as he knows that i too know more than the average joe, haveing been in the presence of screen used helmets myself.

i think that anyone that would make the statement in the above quote honestly just doesnt know much about the originals...

heres the point, YES the screen used buckets were all different in the way they were put together etc. which is why they all look different,(taller shorter fatter face, diff brow etc.) but the peices themselves WERE ALL THE SAME (yes the heros and stunts were diff, hope you r following me here) Gino has created the most accurate replicas of these pieces hands down. period.

point is arguing that they were all different is stupid. period.

its 2 different things all together, and yes you can get the different "looks" of all the helmets seen in ANH by the way that you put these pieces together, which is why he himself YES does have a boatload in his collection that ARENT for sale.

i dont know why certain people hate him so badly, but i really think for the sake of the prop community all this should be dropped, cause i can tell you that all this finger pointing and questioning is just going to make him drop off the preverbial prop map, he put alot of time and effort into these things and hes not going to just tell everyone everything, for instance, i know where the ears came from, i know the exact screen seen trooper that they came from he was cool enough to share certain things with me because of my obvious obbsessive passion for all things ANH, but i will never tell or share pics out of respect, i guess some of you just dont get it... oh well, im a little hung over at the moment, but maybe hopefully i made some point to the nay sayers...

probably not.

all i have to say really is that Ginos latest helmet is the closest you will ever find to a screen used TK bucket. period. dot dot dash.

even TEs latest incarnation isnt as close IMHO because of the one piece construction, no matter how he scanned it etc.

if you own a Gino helmet and dont like it, PM me and ill take it off of your dumb ass hands. :love

now back to the flame war, go ahead make him drop off the face of the community. :angry

This is mostly what this hobby is about or am i wrong?

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Reading this and the hundreds of other helmet threads, I would have to draw the conclusion that the hobby is about egos, greed, jealousy, pettiness, arrogance, childishness, dishonesty, rudeness, nepotism, money & stupidity.

The ST helmet building 'hobby', that is. All the other props seem to do okay. I wonder why that is?

I think once money comes into play, then the hobby part is out the door.

Originally posted by Birdie@Jan 30 2006, 04:10 AM

This is mostly what this hobby is about or am i wrong?

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Reading this and the hundreds of other helmet threads, I would have to draw the conclusion that the hobby is about egos, greed, jealousy, pettiness, arrogance, childishness, dishonesty, rudeness, nepotism, money & stupidity.

The ST helmet building 'hobby', that is. All the other props seem to do okay. I wonder why that is?

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I would disagree with this being just a ST helmet thing. Seems to run VERY strongly in the Star Trek and Blade Runner communities as well and probably others. But, sadly, you are dead on about "egos, greed, jealousy, pettiness, arrogance, childishness, dishonesty, rudeness, nepotism, money & stupidity."

Originally posted by Birdie@Jan 30 2006, 04:10 AM

This is mostly what this hobby is about or am i wrong?

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Reading this and the hundreds of other helmet threads, I would have to draw the conclusion that the hobby is about egos, greed, jealousy, pettiness, arrogance, childishness, dishonesty, rudeness, nepotism, money & stupidity.

The ST helmet building 'hobby', that is. All the other props seem to do okay. I wonder why that is?

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Before any freaks out this isn't aimed at anyone in particular this is just stating a few points.

Birdie talks about the ST building hobby I don't believe there is such a thing when it comes to screen accurate helmets.

There is no such thing as a screen accurate ST helmet building 'hobby' the building of screen accurate ST helmets is a 'business' that can make a lot of cash and has a large market place because of the popularity of stormtroopers.

Because of the recasting laws of the COC only certain people can legitimately thrive in this market here at the RPF.

Many of us hate recasters (myself included) so on principle we would never buy from recasters . The options open to us are then a very limited number of very talented artisans who can supply screen accurate style helmets. This numbers of artisans has also reduced in size TE and GF now a memory.

Once you start making multiple helmets and copious amounts of money from a 'hobby' you then take a step away from being a hobbiest and take a step towards being a 'business'.

The only people left in the 'hobby' are the collectors / consumers and enthusiasts who are effectively customers / potential customers of the people who run a 'business'.

I am not saying any of the people who made / make ST helmets don't care about the quality of their product or their customers but they are a long way from just being mere hobbiests. I am not saying they are bad people in any way either they just supply what a lot of people want.

I know it sounds a bit cold but it is just a plain fact about the market place that is ST helmets.

Capitalism rules the roost.

Cheers Chris.