Gino/CRPROPS "appraisal" Helmet #8

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Originally posted by marcvs66+Jan 27 2006, 01:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marcvs66 @ Jan 27 2006, 01:48 PM)</div>
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@Jan 27 2006, 01:22 PM
Wow, you made yourself 20-30 helmets only for your private collection Gino???  You really must be in love with yourself.    Just messin with ya bro.  :)

Dave
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Maybe 20-30 helmets for one's private collection would be pushing it a little bit, BUT: once you get into Stormtrooper helmets and you start to be able to distinguish helmets from different scenes, etc. - the natural progression/consequence usually is, that you want ALL the different variations of trooper helmets that you see on screen [especially when good reference photographs become available on a particular helmet. As was the case recenty w/ the two Sandtrooper helmets].

The Move-Along Sandtrooper, the Blast' Em Sandtrooper, The Felth Sandtrooper, a helmet that replicates TE's 2nd stunt helmet, a Standee-Hero, a Han-Hero, a Luke-Hero, one or two ESB helmets, the two different style ROTJ helmets... I'm sure, I am fogetting one or two variations here... plus: if I was forming myself a bunch of Stormtroopers, I would make sure to also form a bunch of faceplates for TIE Pilots and ATAT Pilots while I'm at it... and have some extras sitting around the house - just in case... so, 20 helmets doesn't sound all that far off - at least in my book. Heck - I would LOVE to have pieces for 20 ST helmets laying around the house to mess with... my idea of a good time. Really - can one ever own too many ST helmets - even if we're talking 20+? I think NOT.
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But I'm not talkin variants, the 35+ helmets I am referring to are all identical. :) Pretty whimsical collection eh???
 
Originally posted by BingoBongo275@Jan 27 2006, 07:30 PM
Thats how I noticed the number too - purely by chance when I stuck it on :lol

Any of you guys have Styrene cracks?

Jez
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The helmet Dave made for me had a small crack just above the neck trim near the base of the left ear, which he later fixed for me using a styrene patch on the inside. You can't even see it now.

It must have occured during shipping, as Dave said he always thoroughly checked the helmets before sending them out. The styrene used on these CRPROPS helmets is certainly rather brittle, so I'm sure it doesn't take much stress to put cracks in them... There was also another hairline crack on one of the tubes wich Dave had patched in the first place, and he mentioned to me that such flaws were not uncommon due to the nature of the material/stresses of demolding etc.

There's no flaws on the other CRPROPS I have though - the one first owned by Thomas. The only issue with that one is the right ear is set too far back, but I'm in two minds as to whether I should attempt to alter it. If I accidentally wrecked it I'd be devastated.

Can anyone else who owns one of these helmets tell me if there's a gap on theirs between the brow and faceplate? It's not something I'd want to change, but I'm just curious...

Mine are numbered too - 12 and 14 - in the same place as everyone elses.
 
Originally posted by musashi@Jan 28 2006, 04:56 PM
Can anyone else who owns one of these helmets tell me if there's a gap on theirs between the brow and faceplate? It's not something I'd want to change, but I'm just curious...
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I have had a couple of these helmets pass through my hands, both made by Gino, not Dave. One had the gap and the other did not. I believe it is simply a matter of how far forward the faceplate is pushed. The gap really annoyed me but I honestly don't know how accurate/inaccurate that is. I would assume that some of the originals might have been that way but we don't have a whole lot of ref of an angle of the helmet that would show/disprove it.
 
Originally posted by Brak's Buddy+Jan 28 2006, 05:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brak's Buddy @ Jan 28 2006, 05:06 PM)</div>
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@Jan 28 2006, 04:56 PM
Can anyone else who owns one of these helmets tell me if there's a gap on theirs between the brow and faceplate? It's not something I'd want to change, but I'm just curious...
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I have had a couple of these helmets pass through my hands, both made by Gino, not Dave. One had the gap and the other did not. I believe it is simply a matter of how far forward the faceplate is pushed. The gap really annoyed me but I honestly don't know how accurate/inaccurate that is. I would assume that some of the originals might have been that way but we don't have a whole lot of ref of an angle of the helmet that would show/disprove it.
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The best reference I can think of is the SDS helmet stack photo, and having just checked sure enough there's one with a gap exactly like mine (top row second from the left)

streetshot.jpg


I do prefer no gap, but at least it is accurate...

Thanks WC
 
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But I'm not talkin variants, the 35+ helmets I am referring to are all identical. :) Pretty whimsical collection eh???
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Well - the helmet variations start out as identical pulls [let's ignore the fact that the hero helmets have a slightly wider face for now...] and only by trimming, assembling and detailing them in different ways, you end up w/ all the different variations - right? If I had the opportunity, skills/ability to form myself a bunch of ST helmet parts and stash them away to make myself a bunch of ST helmet varaition - I'd do it in a second. Doesn't sound all that weird and unusual to me... but - I admit - I'm probably a little bit TOO MUCH into trooper helmets...
 
Thanks for the update musashi, imo the styrene is quite brittle but it sounds like the crack on mine may be a one-off. I did wear it a couple of times so maybe it was too much stress for it.

I thought Jumpin Jax's comments (from TE) were interesting though

Originally posted by Jumpin Jax@Jan 27 2006, 10:30 PM
Dave and Gino made copied skins and then pulled molds from those. Hence, 2nd Gen castings.
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It sounds like the guy who sold Gino/CRProps the moulds (TE) is suggesting that the “provenance” over them differs significantly from what they sold the helmets as. Basically they were “advertised” as cast off a mould taken from Matt’s helmet when in fact they were cast off a cast off a mould taken from Matt’s helmet, i.e. one generation further removed.

Since its been glossed over on the other thread I thought I’d raise it here given Gino has in the past been quite accusatory of other helmet producers’ practices (Stormtrooper and Vader), and positioned himself as some kind of “ethical” supremo.

I'd certainly be interested in Gino clarifying exactly what the position is.

Cheers

Jez
 
I wonder what TK409's sandy went for.

Originally posted by jeezycreezy@Jan 26 2006, 03:37 PM
Heck, even SDS helmets listed at $625 are going without a bid; that's an approximate 80% price drop.  Yikes.....

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Originally posted by BingoBongo275@Jan 28 2006, 08:35 PM
It sounds like the guy who sold Gino/CRProps the moulds (TE) is suggesting that the “provenance” over them differs significantly from what they sold the helmets as.
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Actually, a guy who claims to be a buddy of the guy who sold him the molds said that. Slight difference. I realize TE isn't a member here and can't speak for himself, but that doesn't change the fact that what was said is hearsay.

And frankly, after the way the "TE helmet that almost was" thread went down, I'd want to hear the accusation straight from the horse's mouth before I gave it any credence. Sorry, but I just don't trust people who go back and drastically edit their posts.


Basically they were “advertised” as cast off a mould taken from Matt’s helmet when in fact they were cast off a cast off a mould taken from Matt’s helmet, i.e. one generation further removed.
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That's a bit of a rush to judgment on your part I think. You have Gino's word vs. a buddy of TE's word at this point. That is hardly conclusive enough to say "in fact" in my opinion.


Since its been glossed over on the other thread
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Maybe it wasn't "glossed over" so much as other people simply don't share your concern?

Sorry, but it's starting to look like the "cracks in the styrene" thing where you kept harping on about it until you've browbeaten (for lack of a better word) people into replying. :)

I'm sure your questions are purely academic and quite frankly I share your curiosity, but unless you're an interested buyer I really don't see why you think Gino owes you an explanation or why you're seemingly on a crusade for answers.

Cheers.
TJ
 
Originally posted by altername@Jan 28 2006, 08:58 PM
I wonder what TK409's sandy went for.
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I believe he didn't get a bid at his asking price. Shame, really. It's a damn nice looking suit.

Cheers.
TJ
 
Originally posted by jeezycreezy+Jan 28 2006, 10:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeezycreezy @ Jan 28 2006, 10:43 PM)</div>
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@Jan 28 2006, 08:58 PM
I wonder what TK409's sandy went for.
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I believe he didn't get a bid at his asking price. Shame, really. It's a damn nice looking suit.

Cheers.
TJ
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I agree. Chris did an outstanding job.
 
Originally posted by GINO@Jan 27 2006, 01:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one helmet witht the same number. It was just supposed to be a goof from the start and totally not representative of anything. An inside joke if you will.
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Why on earth would a craftsman add numbers that don't mean anything?

I produce limited edition silkscreens, and numbering them is serious business. If you have more than your supposed to, you will lose credibility.

I'm sure these helmets were not a limited edition, but by numbering them for a joke seems odd to me.

FB
 
Sorry Jeezy if you don’t care for my questioning your buddy but I believe my concerns are quite valid. I am an owner a Gino/CRProps helmet and purchased one for a hell of a lot of cash when they were first produced, based on how they “advertised” the helmet. This included;

1) Cast from an original helmet. Gino has also since said that his moulds “touched TE’s second helmet” but now there is a question mark against this. I would merely like Gino to clarify exactly what my helmet is cast from. I do not think that is unreasonable.

2) I was told (by CRProps) that as I committed early I would receive the 7th helmet made. Now Gino is saying that the numbers mean nothing. Am I supposed to be happy with this?

3) Gino/CRProps have said on many occasions that they only produced a handful of helmets, yet later said that they “did a second run”. When we consider the number of people out there who seem to have helmets and also look at shots Gino has shown of his own collection I believe that at least 50 helmets have been made. As I own a helmet this IS important to me. BTW Whether they were made and never sold does not interest me, how many times have we heard the excuse “I’m just selling a couple of items from my personal collection”

4) My Gino/Crprops helmet has a number of crack in it including one 3” long running across the back to the extent that any “value” in my helmet is drastically reduced by this crack. I believe its not unreasonable for me to ask other owners if they have something similar given my helmet has only be worn twice and was well looked after.

Finally, Gino has in the past vigorously pursued other (competing) producers, asking them to account for their actions (SDS and GH spring to mind here). I am only asking Gino to do exactly the same given that recent threads have raised some serious questions over claims he has made in the past. You have nothing to add to this Jeezy since these questions are aimed at Gino (or CRProps) unless you are saying you have in-depth knowledge of their business.

Cheers

Jez
 
Sorry Jez.

You've every right to ask for answers.

Sorry for not contributing anything useful; that seems to happen when I post after a couple of beers.

Cheers.
TJ
 
Very reasonable questions Bingobongo. He should encourage the same scrutinization he often dishes out himself.

Dave
 
Jez,
YOUR helmet was made from 7th generation castings.
It was kicked down the stairs before being shipped out.
There were 5,000,001 made.

Don't be sore because you burned your bridges with EVERY helmet maker who produces something in the range of an accurate helmet. It must suck for you every time someone post a pic of one.
 
Originally posted by GINO@Jan 29 2006, 06:12 PM
Jez,
YOUR helmet was made from 7th generation castings.
It was kicked down the stairs before being shipped out.
There were 5,000,001 made.

Don't be sore because you burned your bridges with EVERY helmet maker who produces something in the range of an accurate helmet. It must suck for you every time someone post a pic of one.
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Gino,

Nice joke but how about answering the questions???

IÂ’ll reiterate them if youÂ’re not sure. Given the 5th degree youÂ’ve given a number of other producers here, I donÂ’t think people will think any of them are unreasonable...

1) You previously said that your helmets were from moulds that “touched TE’s second helmet”, but now there is a question mark against this and you’ve consitstantly dodged the question. Please clarify to us Gino/CRProps owners the truth.

2) CRProps allotted specific numbers to helmets. You are now saying that these mean nothing. Do you think this is ethically acceptable?

3) Given these helmets were promoted as only being made “for a select few”, yet you now admit to two runs. Please at least clarify how many you made. IMO this is no biggie but at least buyers should know roughly how many were made. Like I said before I believe to to be at least 50. If you know better then fine but just be honest about it.

IÂ’m sorry IÂ’ve burnt my bridges with you, but I guess IÂ’ll get by. However in this instance I believe I am well within my rights to ask that you answer the questions rather than continue to gloss over and fudge the facts.

Cheers

Jez
 
You know what you can do with your perceived "rights".
I don't feel I OWE anyone an explaination. Most especially you of all people. If someone doesn't like the way I handle things, then they can piss off. I've never been dishonest in regards to stuff I've offered people and still feel good about their pedigree. Too bad you can't say the same with a straight face. You should be ashamed of yourself for your involvement in the AA fiasco. Do us all a favour and concentrate on your highly biased helmet archive. Maybe you can solicit AA some more sales.

I have no problem discussing ANY aspect of my involvement in regards to trooper related stuff (or any SW prop related stuff). In fact, I've spoken to many and never dodged any questions and was always quite frank with my explainations. Who I discuss these things with is MY choice and greatly depends on how I am approached.

But for you to think that I would answer to you like some command dog is completely and utterly laughable.
 
Originally posted by GINO@Jan 29 2006, 08:57 PM
You know what you can do with your perceived "rights".
I don't feel I OWE anyone an explaination. Most especially you of all people. If someone doesn't like the way I handle things, then they can piss off. I've never been dishonest in regards to stuff I've offered people and still feel good about their pedigree. Too bad you can't say the same with a straight face. You should be ashamed of yourself for your involvement in the AA fiasco. Do us all a favour and concentrate on your highly biased helmet archive. Maybe you can solicit AA some more sales.

I have no problem discussing ANY aspect of my involvement in regards to trooper related stuff (or any SW prop related stuff). In fact, I've spoken to many and never dodged any questions and was always quite frank with my explainations. Who I discuss these things with is MY choice and greatly depends on how I am approached.

But for you to think that I would answer to you like some command dog is completely and utterly laughable.
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Gino there is no need to use rude and offensive remarks. Poor form :thumbsdown

ItÂ’s unfortunate you do not like to answer questions, but to be fair you have posed questions of a great many people on this forum about the pedigree of their props, so I believe it is hypocritical of you to complain when others raise legitimate questions about your own work.

Whether you like it or not, you yourself have done precisely what you claim others have done, namely mis-represented the helmets you have produced.

My questions are valid. YouÂ’ve chosen not to answer them since you know youÂ’ve been caught out.

IÂ’m sorry you feel the truth hurts.

Cheers

Jez
 
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