The 4K AND 3d Thread...

Re: The 4K Thread...

I'm really hoping that when my plasma finally gives out, they'll have worked out the kinks in framerate issues on the other panel types. Although, maybe they already have and I just haven't looked into it.

They have. I went from a Pioneer Elite 60" KURO plasma to my 65" 4K OLED and while my KURO was the best TV money could buy at the time I can honestly say the OLED blows it out of the water!
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

They have. I went from a Pioneer Elite 60" KURO plasma to my 65" 4K OLED and while my KURO was the best TV money could buy at the time I can honestly say the OLED blows it out of the water!

That's good to know! I looked at the Elite KUROs back when I was planning to buy, but Pioneer's decision to stop making them (and thus, stop supporting them) made me switch to Panasonic instead. Good to know a solid OLED will perform just as well (and hopefully handles blacks the way the old Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas did).
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

Should have named it "the 2160p thread", since there are hardly any 4K screens out there in consumerland. "It's close enough", since 4K has over a million more pixels than 2160p, I would not call it close enough.

A recreated intro sequence from a certain old classic film in a few different resolutions.

8K vs 1080p:
View attachment 8K1080p.jpg

4K vs 2160p:
4K2160p.jpg

All that said, if you can find a true 4K resolution TV at a reasonable price (I say true 4K because some less than reputable manufacturers call it 4K when it's actually more like 2K), then go for it.

What they sell are 2160p(3840x2160) TVs, they are not 4K(4096x2304), but also far from 2K. 1080p(1920x1080) is way closer to 2K(2048x1152)
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

That's good to know! I looked at the Elite KUROs back when I was planning to buy, but Pioneer's decision to stop making them (and thus, stop supporting them) made me switch to Panasonic instead. Good to know a solid OLED will perform just as well (and hopefully handles blacks the way the old Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas did).

I've had a couple of Panasonic plasmas as well as the Pioneer KURO and I can say with 100% honesty that the black levels on this OLED make the blacks on my old plasmas look dark gray. You seriously won't believe your eyes when you see the black levels on an OLED. Nothing on Earth can match them right now....and I would know because I demo'd every high end set on the market before deciding on this one. :cool
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

Best things to watch in 4K right now are on youtube. Some of those nature vids people have uploaded are astonishing. They look way better than the supposed 4K content Netflix is offering. I have a Samsung 4K set in the kitchen, but I still love my plasma TV in the living room even though it isn't 4K. Equivalent of 600hz+ refresh rate. Nothing out there can match it when it comes to combating motion blur.
 
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Re: The 4K Thread...

Best things to watch in 2160p right now are on youtube. Some of those nature vids people have uploaded are astonishing. They look way better than the supposed 2160p content Netflix is offering. I have a Samsung 4K set in the kitchen, but I still love my plasma TV in the living room even though it isn't 4K. Equivalent of 600hz+ refresh rate. Nothing out there can match it when it comes to combating motion blur.

Fixed, and as for Streaming 4K, no thanks. I'll rather take some lower resolution with far less compression than a high resolution image that looks like this:
compressionvsr.jpg


hmm...well,

good thing I asked... cause this was all stuff I didn't know...as I mostly thought up 4K as just a short term gimmick hollywood was using to sell more TVs. and i might not be that far off on it.

so, with all the info above, i was thinking of something like this as my next buy.
although I might go a little bigger to 70"...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-65...h-dynamic-range-black/4804100.p?skuId=4804100

4K is a specific resolution, just like "1080p". Where as "UHD" and "High Def" are gimmick words. Most monitors these days are 16:9 aspect ratio, basically the in between of the old 4:3 TV aspect ratio and the 21:9 WIDE screen cinema aspect ratio.

A few examples
720p 16:9 - 1280x720

1080p "21:9" - 1920x800 / 1920x816
1080p 16:9 - 1920x1080
1080p 4:3 - 1920x1440

UHD 2160p 16:9 - 3840x2160
4K 16:9 - 4096x2304
DCI 4K cinema - 4096x2160

Is there a 5K? Yes :D In 2015 Apple introduced a (quite insane) 5K / 5120x2880 resolution iMac.
And the Tokyo olympics in 2020 are supposed to get broadcast in 8K resolution.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

so, pardon me for not being quick to digest info..

but my first impression from that is that I should basically avoid things that say UHD, because it's not true, 4K. is that mostly correct?
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

Well...

It sounds like the marketing geniuses are basically bull****ting us by comparing apples to oranges.

If "marketing" claims that 4K is 4x the resolution, then it appears they are lying, since they're not comparing the same dimension.

"4x the resolution" suggests a 3840 (or 4096) compared to the 1080. But it SHOULD be compared to the 1920, right...? So its really more like 2x the resolution.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

so, pardon me for not being quick to digest info..

but my first impression from that is that I should basically avoid things that say UHD, because it's not true, 4K. is that mostly correct?

UHD/4k in the consumer space is the same thing. I don't believe you'll find anything consumer related at the full industry 4k spec. It'll be UHD. They just call it 4k. No, it doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. The broadcast spec is almost certainly going to be the UHD resolution as well.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

UHD/4k in the consumer space is the same thing. I don't believe you'll find anything consumer related at the full industry 4k spec. It'll be UHD. They just call it 4k. No, it doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. The broadcast spec is almost certainly going to be the UHD resolution as well.

OK, so it is what I thought.


Thanks :)

So, should I buy now, and upgrade again in 8 years?

Pretty happy with my current TV, but was hoping to kill two birds with one stone. 3D is a fun gimmick, but I worry they might stop supporting it.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

You can I suppose (ugrade in 8 years) but like i said earlier, unless you're looking at a 100" TV, i don't think 8K will be very relevant in the home. Even as a computer monitor, where you sit 2-3 feet away, you're still looking at nearly 60" or more to see the difference.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

4K is a specific resolution, just like "1080p". Where as "UHD" and "High Def" are gimmick words.
No, UHD is the proper TV industry term for 3840×2160 video resolution.

"4K" is the DCI cinema industry standard for 4096×2160 video resolution with certain specific requirements.
A compliant screen/projector needs to display the full 4096×2160 resolution, with the image cropped in width or height respectively for other aspect ratios.
A 4K image could be higher inside the work-chain for handling of anamorphic images scanned from 4:3 film stock.

Back a few years ago the TV industry talked about introducing a consumer variant of the 4K video format. They discussed back and forth and eventually they settled on pixel-doubling "Full HD" to avoid getting black bars on upconverted content. The home theatre-phile press had been following the discussions though and the video format was much discussed in relation to Cinema-4K. The official name is "Ultra High Definition" which can be shorted to "Ultra-HD" or "UHD".
Then Sony started calling it "4K UHD" in their marketing to make it clear to home theatre-philes that this is what had come out of the 4K-TV process. Then others manufacturers followed.

Is there a 5K? Yes :D In 2015 Apple introduced a (quite insane) 5K / 5120x2880 resolution iMac.
5K is not an industry-standard moniker.

However, I could also mention that while the 27" iMac screen has 5120×2880 pixels, the smaller 21.5" iMac has a proper 4K monitor, with 4096×2304 pixels.
Both of them have the DCI-P3 colour gamut used by the 4K standard.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

No, UHD is the proper TV industry term for 3840×2160 video resolution.

"4K" is the DCI cinema industry standard for 4096×2160 video resolution with certain specific requirements.
A compliant screen/projector needs to display the full 4096×2160 resolution, with the image cropped in width or height respectively for other aspect ratios.
A 4K image could be higher inside the work-chain for handling of anamorphic images scanned from 4:3 film stock.

Back a few years ago the TV industry talked about introducing a consumer variant of the 4K video format. They discussed back and forth and eventually they settled on pixel-doubling "Full HD" to avoid getting black bars on upconverted content. The home theatre-phile press had been following the discussions though and the video format was much discussed in relation to Cinema-4K. The official name is "Ultra High Definition" which can be shorted to "Ultra-HD" or "UHD".
Then Sony started calling it "4K UHD" in their marketing to make it clear to home theatre-philes that this is what had come out of the 4K-TV process. Then others manufacturers followed.


5K is not an industry-standard moniker.

However, I could also mention that while the 27" iMac screen has 5120×2880 pixels, the smaller 21.5" iMac has a proper 4K monitor, with 4096×2304 pixels.
Both of them have the DCI-P3 colour gamut used by the 4K standard.

I have seen people calling 1440p/2560x1440/2.5K (or whatever you want to call it) for "UHD".

When 8K becomes more popular, what will they call that? SHD, or maybe Super Duper High Definition :lol

I am well aware of Apple's different PROPER 4K monitors ;) tis' a shame not every retailer/manufacturer is equally proper :p

Well...

It sounds like the marketing geniuses are basically bull****ting us by comparing apples to oranges.

If "marketing" claims that 4K is 4x the resolution, then it appears they are lying, since they're not comparing the same dimension.

"4x the resolution" suggests a 3840 (or 4096) compared to the 1080. But it SHOULD be compared to the 1920, right...? So its really more like 2x the resolution.

UHD/2160p is 4 times 1920x1080/1080p, but they are calling it "4K", which is wrong. If it were true, then 1080p would be the same thing as 2K(2048x1152), which it is not. And yes they are lying to us when they market a TV as being 4K when it is not. It is a bit like what happened a decade a go, calling HD TVs "HD ready", and then when you want to plug it into a 1080p source, it doesn't work, because the "HD ready" TV is actually only 720p(1280x720). After that they started calling 1080p TV "FULL HD" :facepalm

Just stick with the p-value system then! The higher the number, the better. Simple. 720p, 1080p, 2160p etc

so, pardon me for not being quick to digest info..

but my first impression from that is that I should basically avoid things that say UHD, because it's not true, 4K. is that mostly correct?

Everyone learns in different ways, at different speeds.

You don't need to avoid it, just be aware of the specifics and the ins and outs of it. Saying 2 + 9 = 4, does not make it true.


3D is a fun gimmick, but I worry they might stop supporting it.

They already did, several manufacturers (Samsung for example)have stopped producing 3DTVs. I want to replace mine because of some issues, and there are almost none to be found. And finding older models from say 2013/2014 and so on, is next to impossible. So they are still producing 3D films, sell them and they sell 3D glasses, buuuut TVs - not so much :wacko :facepalm

I am guessing they will rise again, but at the moment..... WTF.
What happens with all the 3DTV that were never sold? Scrapped? Dumped in some hole in the ground somewhere? "I want one!", "Take my money"
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

heres why you might not be noticing a difference in movies, the way resolution goes is I draw a rectangle and say, that's 640x480, what we used to play pc games on in the 90s. then draw a bigger rectangle and say that's 1920x1080, and a 3rd bigger rectangle that's 4k. bluray movies and streaming tv shows are usually 1080, so blowing that up on a 4k tv means nothing in terms of quality, just on a bigger screen. the technology is still new, so until blurays are upped in definition again you wont be seeing much difference at all. the video has to be pumped into a 4k tv AT 4k resolution. 720p=SD, 1080p=HD 4k=UHD. a bigger screen doesn't change the definition of the media being displayed
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

heres why you might not be noticing a difference in movies, the way resolution goes is I draw a rectangle and say, that's 640x480, what we used to play pc games on in the 90s. then draw a bigger rectangle and say that's 1920x1080, and a 3rd bigger rectangle that's 4k. bluray movies and streaming tv shows are usually 1080, so blowing that up on a 4k tv means nothing in terms of quality, just on a bigger screen. the technology is still new, so until blurays are upped in definition again you wont be seeing much difference at all. the video has to be pumped into a 4k tv AT 4k resolution. 720p=SD, 1080p=HD 4k=UHD. a bigger screen doesn't change the definition of the media being displayed

720p is far from being "standard definition", it is more than twice that of DVD.

640 is quite tiny in comparison:
differencehd.png
:p
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

Re: 3DTVs

You ain't missin' much. I have a 2012 era 3DTV, and have watched a 3D film...maybe twice? Once was Avatar, and it gave me a real headache. The other time was, I think, a partial watch of Dredd. And that's it. Otherwise, I've watched literally no 3D content, although I have four sets of rechargeable glasses lying around in case I want to host folks. But 3D also gives my wife a real headache too, so we basically never use it.

It was and always will be a stupid gimmick that added nothing to film that wasn't already there. And yes, that includes Avatar, which is probably the best use of 3D.
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

Re: 3DTVs

You ain't missin' much. I have a 2012 era 3DTV, and have watched a 3D film...maybe twice? Once was Avatar, and it gave me a real headache. The other time was, I think, a partial watch of Dredd. And that's it. Otherwise, I've watched literally no 3D content, although I have four sets of rechargeable glasses lying around in case I want to host folks. But 3D also gives my wife a real headache too, so we basically never use it.

It was and always will be a stupid gimmick that added nothing to film that wasn't already there. And yes, that includes Avatar, which is probably the best use of 3D.

Sounds like your wife and I have the same problem with 3D.

Yeah, I have a 55" 2011-vintage 3D TV, and I have never used the 3D capabilities because 3D just doesn't work for me. The only reason I got it was because it was a damned good brand (seriously, LG makes great TVs) for a reasonable price (got it on sale for $1400... Retail cost was literally double that) and it has a 240Hz refresh rate (excellent for graphics intensive things like video game consoles).
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

The technology is still new, so until blurays are upped in definition again you wont be seeing much difference at all

How much "definition" can we take ?

The pictutres already looks better than if you were looking at the real thing with your own eyes .

What do need to see the molecular structure ?
 
Re: The 4K Thread...

How much "definition" can we take ?

The pictutres already looks better than if you were looking at the real thing with your own eyes .

What do need to see the molecular structure ?

yep. agreed.

at this point, i'd like all my tvs to have the same features. i never know which ones i will get the chance to actually watch..
 
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