Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

I do think they would have put Asian cast members in regardless.

The fact is, unlike star trek, star wars has always been criticized for a lack of diversity. It isn't really pandering to recognize that.

And even if the studios are starting to consciously pander to other demographics (because they finally clued into the fact that everyone watches movies) it just means that at the end of the day the star power will exist in a diverse range.

I remember max Landis saying that the lead character in ghost in the shell had to be white. There just aren't any Asian women stars in Hollywood. She would have to be white, or the film wouldn't get made.

So maybe after a few years of pandering we will have a full box of crayons to draw from

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@Snikt & now @KrangPrime

For all your singular intense focus since the old thread on "pandering" to the Mainland, I just want to sincerely point out something you may or may not have thought about all this time. The plot of this film was the continuing Rebellion against the Galatic Empire. Various factions across the Galaxy coming together opposing a brutual totalitarian regime. Now what better movie do I "HOPE" the distant cousins (our Family is Mainland Chinese from Taiwan) get to watch? Do I have to spell the idea out in even more direct terms?
Do you think the Red Commie Office of Propaganda figured that out?

And I am most definitely am an Empire type of guy: the Left of Genghis Khan.
Please stop with the pointing out the actors playing Chirrut and Baze are ethnically Chinese. They are renowned actors period.
The characters they play just relate to us as "Asian" type. Did you catch the "Asian" little girl Jyn saved back to her mother. Maybe Baze or Chirrut's family?
Red 5 was also Asian.

Who cares?
Just happy they were there.

Yeah. Red five was Asian. And an obviously throw away character. So why did he have to be Asian? To balance out the pandering to the Chinese remarks.... cancel each other out zero sum game.

It's the continuous point out that the Baze and Chirrut characters are played by ethnic Chinese that is overplayed.
Starting to cheapen the actors' contribution.
Do you have a commentary about their actual performance?

Mads Mikkelsen is Danish, Ben Mendelson is Australian and Diego Luna is Mexican.
Is there commentary about how their inclusion is affecting how much more money the Mouse is making in their respective Homeland?
For-profit Corporations exist to make money. Why would anyone question their primary directive?

Looks like quite a few here need to broaden their horizions :rolleyes

squirk said:

I guess I have to eat a little crow. Saw it again tonight, and there were Twi'leks - the holo-dancer that one of Saw's soldiers was watching while Cassian, Baze and Chirrut were talking in their cell. Plus, when Jyn is being led to Saw, and passes by his motley crew, there is a Twi'lek sitting at a table. He had a very pronounced brow, similar to the male Twi'lk design in "Rebels". I wonder if that was supposed to be Cham Syndulla.

And right there, I may have answered my own question on why the filmmakers were so sparse in the use of OT/Prequel aliens. If they showed a Rodian, would people almost reflexively wonder "Is that Greedo?"? If they show a male Twi'lek, will people wonder "Is that Cham Syndulla or Bib Fortuna?"? If they showed an Ithorian, would people wonder "Is that the same guy who was in the cantina in ANH?"?

Granted, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense - why would Bib Fortuna be on Jedha with Saw? - but nonetheless, maybe they wanted to avoid people being distracted with "finding" Easter eggs that don't really exist.

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There is also at least one Twi'lek in the market in the Ring of Kafrene. Just saw that today. Maybe saw a Rhodian too, but will have to watch again.

Snikt said:

Did you even read the article? They freaking tried! China still didnt care for it. So instead of adding those elements JUST FOR CHINA, maybe we shouldnt do that. Anyone could have been Chirrut. Anyone. And for me, it wouldnt have taken the immersion away. Maybe I would have seen it 4 times in the theatre instead of just one. Hell, I saw TFA 4 times...

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Totally read the article. The "freaking tried" - BS. We don't hear about them pandering the Mexican audience. Or the English audience. Or the Australian audience. Or the Danish audience. But, god forbid they cast a non-white, non-American for people to go all kindsa racist crazy about.

...again, as far as casting - I still don't totally see where they pandered to anything.

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wuchi01 said:

It's the continuous point out that the Baze and Chirrut characters are played by ethnic Chinese that is overplayed.
Starting to cheapen the actors' contribution.
Do you have a commentary about their actual performance?

Mads Mikkelsen is Danish, Ben Mendelson is Australian and Diego Luna is Mexican.
Is there commentary about how their inclusion is affecting how much more money the Mouse is making in their respective Homeland?
For-profit Corporations exist to make money. Why would anyone question their primary directive?

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You beat me to it - and most likely said it better than I could have.

Thank you.

Yeah thats two bad, but China and Japan is a totally different world over there.

Now if Disney is smart I would LOVE to see what Stephen Chow would do with an installment.

:lol I can hear the fanboys heads explode already! :lol

Bryancd said:

STAR WARS still struggles in China. And yes, it matters. As the article points out, within a few years China will be the largest film consumption market in the world.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/rogue-o...to-so-so-numbers-in-china-1483900629?mod=e2tw

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squirk said:

Agreed. Anyone could have been Chirrut, including Donnie Yen.

Whether his casting was "pandering" (a loaded term that we will never agree on how to define) or not, he did a great job. Whether Disney/LFL were "playing to" the Chinese market or not, it didn't impact my enjoyment of the film.

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This. I don't care one bit about the reasons a particular actor was cast in a role, and I don't care about their sex, race, sexual orientation, sexual preference, family history, political affiliation, the kind of car they drive, their favorite color, when they last ate a Big Mac, or any other completely irrelevant nonsense. What I care about is that they cast the right actor(s) for the role(s), and I think Donnie Yen and Wen Jiang were perfectly cast for Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus. In fact, they might just be my favorite actors/characters from Rogue One.

JD said:

Totally read the article. The "freaking tried" - BS. We don't hear about them pandering the Mexican audience. Or the English audience. Or the Australian audience. Or the Danish audience. But, god forbid they cast a non-white, non-American for people to go all kindsa racist crazy about.

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Is the mexican audience coming up to be the top grossing audience in the future? Is the British? Is it Australia? NO. ITS CHINA. I dont get why youre throwing the "BOOGA BOOGA RACIST" card. Chill man. Im not anti-chinese by any means. If it was any other country I would be saying it to them too. ***** youre so narrow minded and so quick to jump down someones throat. Calm the hell down. Im not being racist, and every single time you assume that Im just some white guy sitting at my computer. Im not. Im in California, a blue state, and Im 34, on the cusp of a milleniall(sp), so chill. And Im Mexican for gods sake. Its like pulling teeth trying to make a point without someone saying the racist card whenever I bring up China. @squirk Good man, Im glad it didnt impact your enjoyment of the film. I envy you, @Zombie_61 same to you. For me it did. I didnt feel immersed with a cliched character. So are you guys going to chastise me now because I have a different opinion than you?

@JD does it make you feel better calling me racist? Im asking, cause whenever I bring up China you never fail to call me one.

Bryancd said:

@Snikt, what @squirk said above is exactly right. When the nationlaity of a character is meaningless then that affords an opportunity to cast an ethnicity that has either been underrepresented or is designed to have a specific market appeal. Appealing to various markets isn't a binary thing. It's not "either the story is good or it's a shameless pander destruction porn film". It's far more nuanced. Disney casting two Chinese actors was an easy call. Jury is still out if their attempt to court a Chinese audience has helped grow the audience in China for this franchise. They will continue to chip away, looking for formats, actors, stories, that can move that needle. But R1 is closing in on $1B globally, so there is no reason to throw out the current film making format to try and raise Chinese box office as it is still in in it's infancy. This is a work in progress.

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I would rather have had Donnie Yen play Diego Lunas character, or Saw or anyone elses, except for the blind monk character. That would have immersed me into the film. Which is why I watch movies. To be immersed and enjoy the story.

Already been said a whole bunch of times but whatever: Loved the movie, best since ESB! After having been too under the weather to go see it, I finally saw it :love
So happy I saw it without seeing any trailers and such

Score was quite terrible actually. Used to be a big Giacchino fan, but this didn't feel like star wars at all. Like someone already mentioned, it sounds a bit like a spoof version where they try to avoid getting a copyright strike :lol you hear a very familiar few notes and you smile and then.... what is this music? :confused
...only 4 weeks to... since music is such a big part of films: DELAY THE RELEASE.

Visual effects were overall, amazing. Tarkin is definitely the best, most convincing CG human to date. But it was definitely at its best when he didn't move around so much. The voice wasn't anywhere near as good. Sounded like a bad impression. CG Leia, quite an atrocity really. Would have been "okay" if this had been around the time TRON Legacy was done. I felt the walker/ISD getting destroyed was very off putting. They looked way too brittle, like they are made of glass or something. Vader looked weird, to be more precise, they neck issue. Either he has no neck, or he has too much padding on his shoulders. The DS, oh WOW, damn they made that no-moon detailed and all kinds of sexy, if you can call it that :lol

The death troopers(is that what them black ones are called?) They felt and especially sounded like the combine, from the HALF-LIFE universe. I can't understand a word you're saying

Krennic was a great villain

Easily the most emotional SW film, not just because of story and characters but because of the nostalgia! Seeing stormtroopers... heart warming, then the first Star Destroyer, oh my gawd opcorn TIS SO AWESOME! (whyyyyy weren't ISDs in the end battle in on the action???? They just was there, in the background, doing nothing). The blue milk was probably the first thing that made me grin. So many cameos(loved the re-use ANH footage) and nods to the OT

the thanks to Carrie Fisher in the end credits brought a tear to my eye :cry

cavx said:

I don't mind not having the JW score, but I did think a crawl would have been cool to tie this film into the other 7. After all, it started with the classic A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY...

A big yellow STAR WARS + title then crawl would have made this film epic.

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Something like this?

Treadwell said:

All the "go there and hit this switch and then run over there and pull this lever" felt like a Dark Forces game.

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If only, then Kyle Katarn would still have been the one to steal the Death Star plans

MasterEdi said:

... Agree with most nitpicky comments about empty score and the jarring manner in which the movie opens. Even if they didn't want a crawl, was the iMovie Rogue One title the best you could do?.. (just think of how good this movie would have been if it had a proper SW score. And sounded more Star Warsy)

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Agreed, it felt a little odd. They could also have NOT used the prequel/TFA "A long time ago" title and instead used the original 1977 style.

The Mad Professor said:

What concerns me most about the movie is how everyone's cheering Rogue One's ending in the only way it could, but Terminator 3 was very much reviled... because it ended in the only way it could.

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T3 sucks donkey behind, R1, does not simple

Apollo said:

Looks like quite a few here need to broaden their horizons :rolleyes

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everyone else is smart enough to stay out of this conversation. why do i keep going back into it?

Yawn....

why is that always the reaction when i continuously point out I LIKE seeing a diverse cast?

I just don't want it done for the wrong reasons.

that part seems to get ignored for some reason.

instead i'm keeping women down somehow or bashing up chinese people...

smh.

fact of the matter is, hollywood DOES pander to china.
The only reason we got a Japanese Sherdder (and a chinese actress playing a japanese woman IIRC in Karai) is because fans RIGHTLY complained. that shredder was going to be white, and all japanese elements where going to be erased. That's a fact.
There was no reason for XMen, Days of Future Past to have base base in china to save the world.,,,
All the China Elements in ID42.
I don't even doubt that the reason feigbusters had their base in china town and IN an actual chinese restaurant was their hope it would make it into the country.

I don't mind seeing other cultures. and i don't blame the chinese people... but hollywood IS bending over backwards to make amends for the chinese government whether you want to admit it or not. and the movies suffer.

A Ninja Turtles movie with NO Ninja elements, because apparently the Chinese hate the Japanese(the reasoning I heard) is NOT a good thing.

The Terminator said:

T3 sucks donkey behind, R1, does not simple

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What a thoughtful and well worded review. Personally, I thought that T3 was lightyears ahead of Salvation and Genysis, and on par with T2.

Of course, I'm also the guy that thinks the original Terminator was a masterpiece of scifi horror and that Terminator 2 was merely a pale imitation, so what do I know?

The Mad Professor said:

What a thoughtful and well worded review.

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Thank you :lol

The Mad Professor said:

Personally, I thought that T3 was lightyears ahead of Salvation and Genysis, and on par with T2.

Of course, I'm also the guy that thinks the original Terminator was a masterpiece of scifi horror and that Terminator 2 was merely a pale imitation, so what do I know?

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Diff'rent Strokes

I too would say T3 is better than Salvation and Genitals/Genisucks/whatever, but "a polished turd is still a turd"

The Mad Professor said:

What a thoughtful and well worded review. Personally, I thought that T3 was lightyears ahead of Salvation and Genysis, and on par with T2.

Of course, I'm also the guy that thinks the original Terminator was a masterpiece of scifi horror and that Terminator 2 was merely a pale imitation, so what do I know?

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Not to sidetrack things, but is that not the general consensus? I thought it was, at least round these parts.


Anyway, back on track-ish, I think people found T3 to be not that great because so much of it felt like a tired retread. Ahnold is the sort-of-funny-at-times good robot, there's a new killer f/x driven bad robot, and they run around in the present day trying to stop the inevitable. It felt like it had all been done before -- twice -- and done better. It's not a BAD movie, it's just...you know, more of the same. Very ho-hum, to me, at least. The only things to distinguish it were (1) the fact that judgment day finally came, (2) some new stunts, and (3) some new f/x with Kristana Lokken's 'bot. Story-wise, though, it didn't feel like it did a ton.

I thought Genisys at least tried to really shake things up a bit. It was, I'd argue, a more ambitious failure. Salvation also tried to shake things up but just felt so freaking muddled that I can't figure out whether there's a good movie hiding behind bad edits or if it's really just a jumbled mess.


What works about R1, by contrast, is that it feels very different from any other Star Wars film. VERY different. The tone is different, the scope of the galaxy is different, the characters are different, the ending is different, the whole thing feels completely different from your average Star Wars film, and yet still feels pretty "Star Warsy" to me.

Solo4114 said:

What works about R1, by contrast, is that it feels very different from any other Star Wars film. VERY different. The tone is different, the scope of the galaxy is different, the characters are different, the ending is different, the whole thing feels completely different from your average Star Wars film, and yet still feels pretty "Star Warsy" to me.

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R1 felt a hell of a lot more "star warsy" thAn TFA ever did. And I thought TFA was the best SW since Empire, R1 replaced it, and surpassed it easily

The Terminator said:

R1 felt a hell of a lot more "star warsy" then TFA ever did. And I thought TFA was the best SW since Empire, R1 replaced it, and surpassed it easily

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I'm going to be evil for asecond here and disagree with you on that one ;o)...

O thought TFA felt more like what we know than R1 did. We hardly saw any aliens. any droids. only space ships we got where really at the end. it didn't feel as immersive for something that was supposed to be all throw back.

Solo4114 said:

Not to sidetrack things, but is that not the general consensus? I thought it was, at least round these parts.

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Not sure of the demographics of RPF, but the general consensus is that T2 was better than T1. I just happen to disagree with it.

KrangPrime said:

I'm going to be evil for asecond here and disagree with you on that one ;o)...

O thought TFA felt more like what we know than R1 did. We hardly saw any aliens. any droids. only space ships we got where really at the end. it didn't feel as immersive for something that was supposed to be all throw back.

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:confused not really evil, just plain wrong I suppose
When I saw R1 I saw plenty of aliens and droids - throwback ones that I don't think I have seen since ANH. Got another big grin when I heard.... don't even know what they are called, uh MOUSE DROID according to google