The Future of Star Wars?

cboath said:

Well, in ROTJ it could simply have been that the final plans had all access cut off. It was only 40% complete or so at the time of it's 'blowing up'. The accesses could very easily have been required to build the thing and slate for closure/sealing/whatever upon completion.

Click to expand...

But the emperor said witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station.

Sure we can come up with some reasons. But you would think at least like one engineer would have
worked out a protective solution once the reactor went live. Basically it was a Challenger like disaster event, and just
like that analyze the hell out of it and put something in place.

I feel that TFA was 2hours of nostalgia and fan service created to ease the pain of the prequels and relaunch the 'franchise' and it succeeded. Financially, Disney/Lucasfilm were not prepared to take a risk. It could've been the final nail in the Star Wars coffin (casket). So, now they have our interest, they can take this thing in a new direction and show us stuff we haven't seen. I know they are aiming for the mass market not just the hardcore fans but LFL are clearly aware of the best elements of the now defunct EU and are re-intergrating them into canon e.g. Thrawn in Rebels, however, a galaxy far far away is the biggest playground you could hope for (literally millions of planets and years) but all they have come up with so far are prequels and origins. This makes me think of the X-men movies, a good one, a bad one, a reboot, a favourite character spin off and it makes me shudder. If anyone thinks a Boba Fett or Yoda or Han Solo movie would be great..........you're wrong!
Many years ago SW began in the middle of an epic story. It was full of myth and mystery and wonder which is a big part of its success. It made characters interesting and intriguing and it alluded to a much bigger picture than we were given. By the end of the trilogy, those characters as we knew them had completed their 'arc' To expand on them now (with new actors) can only damage that mythology.
Case in point: The prequels made Darth Vader a whiny little brat and turned Yoda into a gymnastic frog, they destroyed the mystery and must not be watched chronologically. The best thing about the PT is Ewan McGregor, a fine actor that deserves another shot at Obi Wan Kenobi. They brought him in for one line in TFA which could've been voiced by Mark Hamill or Frank Oz.
Hhmmm.......?
With a well devised screenplay and a well written script it could be the Star Wars Story we are looking for and would help bridge the asthetic gap between ROTS and ANH, just don't pepper it with cameos and famous faces who wanna piece of SW action.
After that, it's a big Galaxy..........where'd ya wanna go?

CessnaDriver said:

But the emperor said witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station.

Sure we can come up with some reasons. But you would think at least like one engineer would have
worked out a protective solution once the reactor went live. Basically it was a Challenger like disaster event, and just
like that analyze the hell out of it and put something in place.

Click to expand...

Something of the size/scale/complexity is going to have things you can exploit. 100% guaranteed. Too complex not to. Not to mention, look at v1 compared to v2. Very different internally it would seem. No way you can do that massive of a redesign in such a short period and make it fullproof. Hell, an extra 10 years won't make it full proof.

cboath said:

Something of the size/scale/complexity is going to have things you can exploit. 100% guaranteed. Too complex not to. Not to mention, look at v1 compared to v2. Very different internally it would seem. No way you can do that massive of a redesign in such a short period and make it fullproof. Hell, an extra 10 years won't make it full proof.

Click to expand...

I think thats why they did have the shield around it while building to try and figure all the flaws. I guess the biggest flaw was not protecting the shield generator well enough. The emperor should have known even his best guys are just not good enough.

Victor3 said:

A stationary, planet based super weapon that utilized hyperspace to attack targets anywhere in the galaxy. The concept was that it should destroy an entire system, rather than just a planet.

Click to expand...

It's beyond stupid.

Say you want to destroy the closest star, besides our sun, and we fire the weapon today, it will take over 4 years before it reaches it's target (if it moves with the speed of light). Or say you want to hit a target on the other side of the galaxy. That will "only" take some 50 000 - 120 000 years.

JediMichael said:

I think thats why they did have the shield around it while building to try and figure all the flaws. I guess the biggest flaw was not protecting the shield generator well enough. The emperor should have known even his best guys are just not good enough.

Click to expand...

Especially when facing off against vicious teddy bears, armed with wooden spears and their golden deity! :ninja

The Terminator said:

It's beyond stupid.

Say you want to destroy the closest star, besides our sun, and we fire the weapon today, it will take over 4 years before it reaches it's target (if it moves with the speed of light). Or say you want to hit a target on the other side of the galaxy. That will "only" take some 50 000 - 120 000 years.

Click to expand...

I said "utilizing hyperspace." My hypothetical idea was that it would shunt matter or energy through hyperspace into the core of the target star, without having to figure out a way to move the whole planet. It could even keep you fairly well hidden - as most devices that could track that big a of hyperspace disturbance would be destroyed with the rest of the system.

Of course, this is really all moot, but to me, it makes more sense than what we saw in the film:

The slowly advancing red beam that travels across the galaxy for everyone in between to see. Was that traveling through hyperspace? Was it so much energy that it was actually visible, despite traveling through hyperspace? Didn't they try to explain why everyone could see it with some crap about it being so strong that it damaged Space/Time?

So Starkiller uses the matter from its sun to fire the weapon. We see it fire once and attempt a second time. Does it drain the entire supply star, or just the outer layer? The inside of a star is glowy, too... It's daytime on SK Base when they destroy the Hosnian system - so why does it go dark when they attempt to destroy the Resistance base? Did they suck up one star, then move the whole planet to another system before firing at Hosnian?

Getting back on topic, I hope the future of Star Wars includes a LITTLE more thought into how things could work before committing them to film.

Victor3 said:

I said "utilizing hyperspace." My hypothetical idea was that it would shunt matter or energy through hyperspace into the core of the target star, without having to figure out a way to move the whole planet. It could even keep you fairly well hidden - as most devices that could track that big a of hyperspace disturbance would be destroyed with the rest of the system.

Of course, this is really all moot, but to me, it makes more sense than what we saw in the film:

The slowly advancing red beam that travels across the galaxy for everyone in between to see. Was that traveling through hyperspace? Was it so much energy that it was actually visible, despite traveling through hyperspace? Didn't they try to explain why everyone could see it with some crap about it being so strong that it damaged Space/Time?

So Starkiller uses the matter from its sun to fire the weapon. We see it fire once and attempt a second time. Does it drain the entire supply star, or just the outer layer? The inside of a star is glowy, too... It's daytime on SK Base when they destroy the Hosnian system - so why does it go dark when they attempt to destroy the Resistance base? Did they suck up one star, then move the whole planet to another system before firing at Hosnian?

Getting back on topic, I hope the future of Star Wars includes a LITTLE more thought into how things could work before committing them to film.

Click to expand...

Who knows, probably not even the writers, Kasdan and Abrams.

I definitely agree on the last part. Be a little like James Cameron. Design things with function, not just with a cool look.

Victor3 said:

Getting back on topic, I hope the future of Star Wars includes a LITTLE more thought into how things could work before committing them to film.

Click to expand...

I disagree. Star Wars is a fantasy, a fairy tale, not Science Fiction. Science fails around every corner in Star Wars, don't try to dissect it. This is exactly why Midicholoreans were such a fail.

Just assume the planet destroying weapon works because we can't uderstand that tech or magic and enjoy the show.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Toadmeister said:

I disagree. Star Wars is a fantasy, a fairy tale, not Science Fiction. Science fails around every corner in Star Wars, don't try to dissect it. This is exactly why Midicholoreans were such a fail.

Just assume the planet destroying weapon works because we can't uderstand that tech or magic and enjoy the show.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Star Wars is littered with scientific WTF'ery! Accepting a weapon that can fire through hyperspace is par for the course for this franchise.

Toadmeister said:

I disagree. Star Wars is a fantasy, a fairy tale, not Science Fiction. Science fails around every corner in Star Wars, don't try to dissect it. This is exactly why Midicholoreans were such a fail.

Just assume the planet destroying weapon works because we can't uderstand that tech or magic and enjoy the show.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Totally this. Theres some suspension of disbelief that you have to buy into in order to enjoy almost anything, especially on film. Thats why there are movies... to escape reality for a bit. Cause newsflash, reality sucks for the most part. I think some of those things are fun anyway. Yeah, we know there are better ways to transport troops, but seeing an AT AT is ten times cooler. Now if the damn thing was leaping over places, then yeah, that would be dumb. But they dont. So... cool factor of 10. :cool

But back to the topic, I just hope there isnt an oversaturation of the material. Do I want to see Rogue one? Yes. Do I want to see a young Han Solo movie? No. Do I want to see even a boba fett movie? No. Now that all the EU stuff isnt canon...thats what bothers me more, because there was a lot of good stuff out there, and a lot of bad. So, Im trying to be optimistic. I wish they would have built a seperate part of Disneyland though instead of dedicating so much Star Wars to it. To me, just cause Disney owns them, doesnt mean they have to incorporate it into everything. I dont want everything to be homogonized.

I'm actually not too worried about science in Star Wars. Of course it's fantasy. But the better fantasy/fairy tale/scifi stories follow an internal logic.
Even when the rules change over time to fit the story, that's often understandable and acceptable if the narrative is served.

I'm not expecting the filmmakers to start figuring out how these things would physically work. That's for us geeks & game designers to do after the fact...
What I would like is if they take their concept, figure out the narrative rules for it, and commit to it at the script level. Ideally with a look at what's come before, and whether it's reasonable in the context of the franchise.

This is not really limited to SW, of course, but I almost feel like it's due to Lucas' work on the prequels as well. Nowadays, it seems like more and more movies are not just being rewritten, but actually written the first time, while the scenes are being shot. So they don't get the opportunity to make sure that all of the scenes make sense in relation to each other before they're in the can. As a result, you end up with these inconsistencies and gaps that may not reduce your enjoyment of the film (I do love TFA) but don't stand up to even a little scrutiny after the fact.

The Terminator said:

Especially when facing off against vicious teddy bears, armed with wooden spears and their golden deity! :ninja

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, they'll bite your leg off. I never had a problem with the Ewoks, but growing up with the movie helped that. At an older age, I can see why people wouldn't like them. George should have just stuck with them being wookiees like they were suppose to be.

The Terminator said:

Who knows, probably not even the writers, Kasdan and Abrams.

I definitely agree on the last part. Be a little like James Cameron. Design things with function, not just with a cool look.

Click to expand...

Even though the dude in avatar, in a giant, robotic mech suit pulls a knife out. Always thought that was the dumbest thing in the entire movie. Youre in a walking suit of armor and you pull a knife? :rolleyes

Okay...

The second Death Star was much bigger than the first, and well protected by an energy shield that was prevening the Rebels from attacking its vulnerable superstructure directly -- until the strike team on the moon managed to beat the odds. There was no built-in flaw, so the only way to take it out was to fly into it before it was finished and sealed up.

The Starkiller, per the other material that the movie failed to make explicit, moves through hyperspace, like the Death Stars were capable of, only on a larger scale. It sucked up its home star to destroy the Hosnian system, and moved to the next closest one to suck it up to destroy the Ileenium system. The weapon does indeed fire through hyperspace. This is not unprecedented. The third installment of the Dark Empire comic series featured Our Heroes having to take out the Galaxy Gun -- a superweapon that fired through hyperspace. The big flaw was that JJ opted for the visual drama of the blast traveling through normal space, and people on the ground reacting to it up in the sky -- up to and including seeing the individual bodies of Hosnian Prime and its moons exploding. This despite Takodana not even being on a direct line between Starkiller and the Hosnian system, let alone in the same system and closer to it than Mars is to us. I had the same issue with the first JJ-Trek -- when Delta Vega (never mind not being on the fringe of settled space, rather than the core planets) was closer to Vulcan than our moon is to us.

And as for Star Wars and science, I've said it repeatedly, but some seem to keep resisting it: Everythign we see in Star Wars -- even the Force -- I can come up with a sound theory from contemporary physics for, with the exception of artificial gravity, and that only because we're still trying to figure out what gravity is, let alone how to manipulate it or reproduce it mechanically. It's space opera, yes, but the science is more sound than many apparently think.

--Jonah

I am so tired of the argument that "it's a fantasy, they can do whatever they want".
Things still have to be believable within the boundaries of what is possible in its own universe to be able to make sense to me as a viewer.

I can buy the idea that Starkiller Base used Hyperspace to get around and/or to shoot. Fine.
But.. Death Star I and II each took several years to build, feeding off the vast resources of the Galactic Empire, and of course being known in the entire Empire. The point of them was to have them as a weapon of terror, anyway. ("Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station".)

You can't expect a battle station 160 times its size to be constructed in a fraction of that time by a small offshoot in the Unknown Regions and in complete secrecy.

A crazy old wizard, a princess, and a Krayt dragon.

It's been a fantasy from the start.

Darth Lars said:

I can buy the idea that Starkiller Base used Hyperspace to get around and/or to shoot. Fine.
But.. Death Star I and II each took several years to build, feeding off the vast resources of the Galactic Empire, and of course being known in the entire Empire. The point of them was to have them as a weapon of terror, anyway. ("Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station".)

You can't expect a battle station 160 times its size to be constructed in a fraction of that time by a small offshoot in the Unknown Regions and in complete secrecy.

Click to expand...

It was started right after the Declaration of Empire. Ilum was mined for the kyber crystals to make the Death Stars' superlasers. It's implied Hux's father was involved in that and/or the project to turn the planet itself into a weapon using the unmined/unminable kyber crystals still there. A project that was half a century in the building. The First Order had only ventured out of the Unknown Regions a few months before TFA, as the Starkiller was nearing completion.

--Jonah

Darth Lars said:

I am so tired of the argument that "it's a fantasy, they can do whatever they want".
Things still have to be believable within the boundaries of what is possible in its own universe to be able to make sense to me as a viewer.

I can buy the idea that Starkiller Base used Hyperspace to get around and/or to shoot. Fine.
But.. Death Star I and II each took several years to build, feeding off the vast resources of the Galactic Empire, and of course being known in the entire Empire. The point of them was to have them as a weapon of terror, anyway. ("Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station".)

You can't expect a battle station 160 times its size to be constructed in a fraction of that time by a small offshoot in the Unknown Regions and in complete secrecy.

Click to expand...

I agree, even fantasy needs rules and boundaries to be believable, as long as they obey their own internal rules then things are fine. Sadly, too many shows and movies fail to do that and it makes things painful to watch, esp. with series that tries to ground itself in real science like Trek.

One thing though, I don't think that Starkiller Base is much larger than either of the two Death Stars, at most it might Star Destroyer sized in terms of overall size and volume or maybee a modest sized country. While Starkiller base was built into a planet, it wasn't the entire planet and we never got to see just how much of the planet the base really occupied, just that the whole planet was devoted solely to housing Starkiller Base. From what they showed there still was considerable unoccupied regions of the planet that had nothing but trees so it's no Coruscant where the entire surface of the planet was built over. This suggests that while Starkiller Base may have been massive it didn't take up the entire planet.

Even if Starkiller Base was taking up nearly the entire planet it would still take less time and resources than a Death Star would since you're building on and in a planet, you're not creating the entire thing from scratch like a Death Star. You don't have to build a frame around which to house/support the entire inner structure, and you don't have to skin it either. Plus, being on a planet you really can't build the base reaching from pole to pole, like the interior of the Death Stars would, so you're saving time and resources there by building a lot shallower than a Death Star.

As far as the Death Stars being known in the Empire, I always got the impression that they weren't really know and that they were being built in secret. Granted that it was intended for the knowledge of their existence to be public knowledge I don't think that they got to be. DS 1 seemed to have only just gone online at the time of ANH and the blowing up of Alderaan was the first public demonstration of its capabilities. DS 2 was being built, I think, way out in the middle of nowhere and, once again, likely in secret an wasn't even finished when it was destroyed.

Darth Lars said:

I am so tired of the argument that "it's a fantasy, they can do whatever they want".
Things still have to be believable within the boundaries of what is possible in its own universe to be able to make sense to me as a viewer.

Click to expand...

But Space Wizards using Space Magic is okay? Interesting place to draw the line, especially since we do not have the full backstory of the First Order.

The Force fits, too. It's an extension of mystical traditions we have here that have actual demonstrable effects that have never been adequately studied because the rationalsim of the last few centuries has denigrated them as simple tricks and nonsense. But there's a lot of meditative focus, enhancement of natural abilities through biofeedback, channeling and directing of vital energy -- ki, qi, prana, what have you -- to particular ends, from feats of strength to pyrokinesis to healing to psychometry to combat skills and situational awareness...

--Jonah