Suicide Squad (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
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Father
Sr Member
I keep hearing people bashing the studio because they make too many cuts, as was the apparent case with BvS and now SS.
I feel like it's not the studio's fault though... if the writer/director can't sum up the movie in a normal amount of time [for a superhero movie] then maybe they're failing. The Ultimate extended cut of BvS is 3 hours long. I rarely watch the credits roll in a 2.5 hour movie and think, "Man, I could have easily sat here for another 30 minutes of that." Sadly the extended cut of BvS has parts of scenes that actually make the movie more coherent, but not a better movie. If the writer/director can't tell the story in 2.5 hours without leaving people scratching their heads, they're failing at their job, no matter how many explosions and punching and flashbacks and scenes too dark to even see what's happening the movie has in it.
BvS doesn't suck because too much was left on the cutting room floor. It sucked because it was a rushed, forced, pretentiously bad story with a subpar score and questionable casting. They assumed they didn't have to do any world-building because we all Batman's origin and the other characters will fall into place in the next movie which looks like it'll be an extended recruitment montage scene more than anything else. Had they chosen better people to write it and direct it, that might have been the case.
It's hard not to throw Marvel comparisons into these discussions, but they have awesome directors and writers that get it right. Zack Snyder would never make the cut for the MCU. He's had some decent movies with Watchmen, 300, and arguably Man of Steel (I still enjoyed it despite its glaring flaws), but his style doesn't fit every mold. It should, right? He's got a comic book vision and style... but it still falls flat. Same with David Ayer. He's got a decent resume, Training Day being his best writing credit. His directing credits are decent but kind of forgettable movies.
If Snyder is DC's Joss Whedon, they'll be rebooting again in <10 years. They'd be better off pulling the people that make the DCU animated movies to do the live action ones.
I feel like it's not the studio's fault though... if the writer/director can't sum up the movie in a normal amount of time [for a superhero movie] then maybe they're failing. The Ultimate extended cut of BvS is 3 hours long. I rarely watch the credits roll in a 2.5 hour movie and think, "Man, I could have easily sat here for another 30 minutes of that." Sadly the extended cut of BvS has parts of scenes that actually make the movie more coherent, but not a better movie. If the writer/director can't tell the story in 2.5 hours without leaving people scratching their heads, they're failing at their job, no matter how many explosions and punching and flashbacks and scenes too dark to even see what's happening the movie has in it.
BvS doesn't suck because too much was left on the cutting room floor. It sucked because it was a rushed, forced, pretentiously bad story with a subpar score and questionable casting. They assumed they didn't have to do any world-building because we all Batman's origin and the other characters will fall into place in the next movie which looks like it'll be an extended recruitment montage scene more than anything else. Had they chosen better people to write it and direct it, that might have been the case.
It's hard not to throw Marvel comparisons into these discussions, but they have awesome directors and writers that get it right. Zack Snyder would never make the cut for the MCU. He's had some decent movies with Watchmen, 300, and arguably Man of Steel (I still enjoyed it despite its glaring flaws), but his style doesn't fit every mold. It should, right? He's got a comic book vision and style... but it still falls flat. Same with David Ayer. He's got a decent resume, Training Day being his best writing credit. His directing credits are decent but kind of forgettable movies.
If Snyder is DC's Joss Whedon, they'll be rebooting again in <10 years. They'd be better off pulling the people that make the DCU animated movies to do the live action ones.
Solo4114
Master Member
Well, let's also not forget that Disney has had its missteps, too. The parent company put out a few disappointing films that failed to launch franchises. John Carter, Lone Ranger, and Tomorrowland didn't turn into huge tentpole franchises.
But the subsidiary companies of Pixar, Marvel, and LucasFilm...those companies KNOW what they're doing. They know what works, and what makes a good film. They know their target market pretty well. And they both know and care about their properties in a way that is reflected on the screen. The properties aren't JUST brands to be exploited. I mean, don't get me wrong. Marvel and LucasFilm have exploited the hell out of their properties. BUT, they know that there's more to the brand than just that. It's not just a name to be slapped on any old project, willy-nilly.
They protect their brands, too. They're offering a specific experience and, while there's room to play within the franchise as to how that experience will be presented to audiences, there's still a fundamental "house style" that has to be maintained. In the true, legal sense of the term, these are franchises where each film and property has to function in accordance with the overall stylistic requirements that apply to the whole franchise. When you go into a Marvel film or a Star Wars film (or, eventually, an Indy film), you will KNOW what you're getting, and you will KNOW the quality of the experience you can expect. There's a range, but you can trust the brand to deliver within that range every time, and in a specific way.
Unfortunately, DC is following suit, although not in a direction that people seem to like on the whole. That's where Geoff Johns comes in.
But the subsidiary companies of Pixar, Marvel, and LucasFilm...those companies KNOW what they're doing. They know what works, and what makes a good film. They know their target market pretty well. And they both know and care about their properties in a way that is reflected on the screen. The properties aren't JUST brands to be exploited. I mean, don't get me wrong. Marvel and LucasFilm have exploited the hell out of their properties. BUT, they know that there's more to the brand than just that. It's not just a name to be slapped on any old project, willy-nilly.
They protect their brands, too. They're offering a specific experience and, while there's room to play within the franchise as to how that experience will be presented to audiences, there's still a fundamental "house style" that has to be maintained. In the true, legal sense of the term, these are franchises where each film and property has to function in accordance with the overall stylistic requirements that apply to the whole franchise. When you go into a Marvel film or a Star Wars film (or, eventually, an Indy film), you will KNOW what you're getting, and you will KNOW the quality of the experience you can expect. There's a range, but you can trust the brand to deliver within that range every time, and in a specific way.
Unfortunately, DC is following suit, although not in a direction that people seem to like on the whole. That's where Geoff Johns comes in.
Kevin Smith once talked about his experience making Cop Out (I think) under Warner Pictures. As director he was led to believe he would be editing the film. In the end he was allowed to edit the film but was informed that, as a rule, Warner Brothers has a staff of editors that have final cut on all movies and that his film would be no exception. Kevin said he was certain that the film would be essentially unchanged. To his surprise the editor altered his film completely without collaborating with him. Now, he wasn't so much appalled as he was surprised and wasn't trying to place blame, but he was merely explaining WB's rule of having every film (except for films from select auteurs, of course) re-cut with their salaried (?) team of editors.
If that's the case it could only be bad for future DC/Warner superhero films.
If that's the case it could only be bad for future DC/Warner superhero films.
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Absolutely. Again, I think the knee jerk, less informed reaction to these films that fail to live up to expectations is to blame the studio as being either delinquent or too involved when the reality is it's more often a failure of the films creative process and team.
Father
Sr Member
Yeah, Disney has definitely made some stinkers... but they can afford to take chances. Their subsidiaries definitely make up for their losses.
I've wondered that... if Johns is a large part of the problem.
Kevin Smith should be thankful people are still paying him to do anything with movies.
I wonder which directors they trust enough to edit a movie to their liking.
Hey, Smith is the first one to admit that.
There's only a handful of directors who will always get final cut. The list shouldn't surprise anyone: Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino, Stephen Spielberg ...
Right, it's their party, their dime, they get to approve what they pay for.
Father
Sr Member
Did the Wachowski's get final cut for The Matrix trilogy?
How do you even know who does and doesn't?
Well, I watched it tonight. I guess IMO I would agree with the aggregate review scores. I usually can give action movies a big pass if the action is good and the pace keeps the movie from stopping on top of any plot issues. It seems most of the good parts were shown in the trailers. The main plot baddies were kind of thrown into action in a bad way.
I did really like the Flagg character/actor and of course Will Smith did really good. Harley Quinn was good as well but again you see most of that in the trailers. Some of the action stuff was good with maybe coolest surprise going to El Diablo. Overall if I could do it again I would wait for a rental.
I did really like the Flagg character/actor and of course Will Smith did really good. Harley Quinn was good as well but again you see most of that in the trailers. Some of the action stuff was good with maybe coolest surprise going to El Diablo. Overall if I could do it again I would wait for a rental.
I'll be the first to say i loved it!! There I said it
Leto's Joker was his own and refreshing. Great performance. Will Smith, Surprised the hell outta me. I'll see it again
Reel
Were you surprised by that El Diablo part? That was pretty cool!
KrangPrime
Master Member
so, I just finished the killing joke.
my god what an interesting joker story, and just so perfect with conroy and hamill.
I see that... then i see the mess that is jersey shore suicide squad and..
It just makes me sad that the movie guys can't see the classic designs just work. not only the classic designs, but the classic motivations and the persona's...
yet they constantly feel the need to re invent the wheel for some reason.
sigh.
my god what an interesting joker story, and just so perfect with conroy and hamill.
I see that... then i see the mess that is jersey shore suicide squad and..
It just makes me sad that the movie guys can't see the classic designs just work. not only the classic designs, but the classic motivations and the persona's...
yet they constantly feel the need to re invent the wheel for some reason.
sigh.
Father
Sr Member
They do it for the millennials. Have you seen what appeals to the "younger" audience today?
joshvanrad
Sr Member
Ugh, I hate being lumped in with those moody, snobby, ever-teens.
Just got back from it. Its not the greatest, but it was fun. I never felt it transitioned into the whole dark, brooding feeling early reviewers kept saying it did. I really wonder what movie they saw because I had fun the whole time.Margot Robbie and Jay Hernandez were really the breakaway stars for me. I think they did an awesome job. Would love to see more of Leto's Joker in a Bats film. Hope they do that. Nice cameo during Boomerang's robbery scene, too. Wasn't expecting that. Mid credits scene was also pretty cool.
Overall I really enjoyed it. A solid 7/10 from me. I'll probably see it again.
Overall I really enjoyed it. A solid 7/10 from me. I'll probably see it again.
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
Just got back, overall it was decent. I certainly enjoyed it more than MoS and BvS. Will Smith was great as Will Smith with improbable aiming skills, Viola Davis was perfect as Waller, and Margot was great as Harley (the accent wasn't working for me though). Just the right amount of Batman and Joker without overstaying their welcomes, the other cameo was a nice surprise. Film is trying way too hard to be Guardians of the Galaxy at times though. DC continues to be more concerned with moments rather than the whole.
Mr Mold Maker
Master Member
They supposedly cut out 15-20 minutes of Joker footage from the original screenings, amongst other things. A few Joker scenes in the trailers that are missing, or I just happened to fall asleep and miss them... "I can't wait to show you my toys" and the scene where the Joker drops the grenade and waves.
I feel like they intended for Leto's role to be larger, but perhaps they cut it down do to so many complaining about the "dark" tone of BvS?
This scene personally gives me the creeps. Would have loved to have seen it in context. http://m.imgur.com/ZQTt8o2
Btw, how many helicopters crashed in this film without a single causality? Too many.
I feel like they intended for Leto's role to be larger, but perhaps they cut it down do to so many complaining about the "dark" tone of BvS?
This scene personally gives me the creeps. Would have loved to have seen it in context. http://m.imgur.com/ZQTt8o2
Btw, how many helicopters crashed in this film without a single causality? Too many.
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