Revisiting the old ESB screws vs rivets grips question :)

Here is a dome head, structural blind (pop) rivet. Not the right size, but available.

6NCT5_AS02


https://www.grainger.com/product/MAGNA-LOK-Rivet-6NCU7?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6NCT5_AS02?$smthumb$

TB1jFsTGVXXXXbDaXXXXXXXXXXX_!!1-item_pic.gif
 
I don't usually wade into these murky waters, but hey why not. To me it makes sense that they would be screws for the simple reason that they had to attach them on the fly once the cold started causing the t-tracks to break off. In my mind screws would be the solution 1) because that would just occur to me first 2) now that I'm aware these grips are coming off I'd want an easier way to put a on new set which would mean not having to drill out the rivets each time. Of course this would also mean a lost screw or two from time to time, so it wouldn't surprise me that the screws would change from time to time as well.

Now, this isn't to say they stayed screws. As shooting went on, this utilitarian solution to the problems they had in the cold weather became a defining aesthetic of the saber so maybe they went to something more permanent.

At the end of the day, though... who knows :confused
 
Here is a dome head, structural blind (pop) rivet. Not the right size, but available.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6NCT5_AS02?$zmmain$

https://www.grainger.com/product/MAGNA-LOK-Rivet-6NCU7?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6NCT5_AS02?$smthumb$

http://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/TB1jFsTGVXXXXbDaXXXXXXXXXXX_!!1-item_pic.gif

Those dont even come close to looking like the thick dome heads in the screen cap I posted. Those look nearly identical to the low profile commonly used on replica ESB sabers.


Saying I'm blind to your photo 'proof' is crazy hilarious. I'm saying I don't believe that photo shows either way. You are saying it's 100% a fact. It's nice to see your opinion is right and my opinion is rubbish because it's not the same as yours.

"Crazy hilarious"?

Arent you the guy who was running around the TFA graflex lightsaber thread claiming with certainty that every single Rey/Luke lightsaber shown in the film had the short grips?
Someone even questioned you and you told them to "stop seeing what you want to see".
Telling people to mark the Bluray release date because the high def footage would prove you right and Warning people that they would have to undo their grips?


In the end ALL but ONE TFA saber had the short grips.

Some of your own posts from that thread-

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 13, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
I just got back from seeing EP7 again, and I'm going to make a bold statement.

The Hero, non-bladed, Screen-Used Lightsaber has grips that are short. There is a 1/8 or less space between the grip and the bottom, and 1/8 or less space between the grip and the clamp. The grips on the EP7 Lightsaber are shorter than the ESB Lightsaber.

[b You can write that down, save it for April when the Blu-Ray is released, and see that what I've just said is true.[/b]

In Maz's box, when Finn is handed the saber by Maz, in the snow, when Rey is bringing the saber up to ignite it, and at the end when Rey is holding the saber out to Luke. In all those shots, the saber grips are 1/8 short of the clamp.

Exactly like the VD.

The Maz box scene is interesting because of how it plays out.

Rey opens the box, but you don't see inside.
Cut to Rey's face.
Cut back to the box and see the saber, but the angle is bad to tell the grip length
Cut back to Rey's face
When it cuts back to Rey reaching in the box to touch the saber, you can clearly see the gap.

At the end, you get basically a side-shot in daylight when Rey first extends the saber and the gap is there.

If you don't believe me, no worries, I'll see you guys in April with the ably-Ray. But if you're making an EP7 Lightsaber and you want it to be accurate. you need to cut grips 1/8 short at the top and the bottom.

Remember this-


James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 13, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
The Grips are short, even in every scene when it's sticking in the snow.

The saber in Finns jacket from the promo shots may or may not be a screen used saber, but the one in the movie has short grips.

Remember this-

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 13, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
In the Maz photo you posted, you can see the short grips. Look at the top of the top grip up by the clamp and down at the bottom.

Gap. All day.

- - - Updated - - -

And by short grips I don't mean short vs tall, I mean the length is short.

In the Finn fathead, yes the grip height is taller than the other saber grips.


Remember this-

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 13, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
In the Finn fathead photo, you can see in the grip in-line with the clamp the 1/8 gap.

The gap is there in all the other grips also, you just can't see it in that photo due to the angle.

The saber sticking out of the snow has a gap on both ends. If that saber is the Finn fathead saber, it would make sense as the Finn fathead saber grips are short in length just like all the other sabers used in the film.

So people cant see the gap due to the angle, but apparently you can?


Remember this-

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 13, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
They are short in length in the snow.

Anyone can can think otherwise. No harm, no foul.


This one is especially funny-

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 21, 2016
Re: That's a Graflex, right (Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)?
No, the unused Maz scene saber had the short grips, same as the Maz box and the VD.



You can see 2 grips here 1/8 inch short of the clamp.

Going back and looking at photos posted in this very thread and every lightsaber has the short grips.

Every clear photo we have, including the Wired saber and the sabers made for the Disney display, have grips that are 1/8 short of the end of the tube. All of the light sabers seen on screen have a 1/8 gap between the grips and the clamp also, including the saber in the box, Rey giving the saber to Luke, Maz giving the saber to Finn, the un-used scene of giving the saber to Leia, Rey holding the saber before fighting Kylo, and even the saber sticking out of the snow.

The grips are short. I know everyone wants them to be exactly the same length as the Luke ESB but they are short and styled like the ROTS Anakin prop.

The Finn fathead grips are taller, there is a visible gap at the top, and we can't see the bottom and don't know if there is a gap also.

I said it earlier, I'll say it again: the grips are short. If you use regular length grips and go from clamp to end like a Luke ESB your Rey Ep7 lightsaber will be inaccurate.

Please look at the high-res photos and stop seeing what you want in blurry photos. The grips are short.
edit note
Last edited by James Kenobi 1138; Jan 21, 2016 at 10:11

This comment is a contradiction -

James Kenobi 1138 said:
Jan 21, 2016
Re: TFA Graflex Research (That's a Graflex, right? Force Awakens teaser trailer #2)
It's too blurry to tell for sure, but I'm telling you, the grips are short the bottom just like the Anakin ROTS saber.

If you don't believe me, no worries, but it's gonna stink when you're pulling your grips off after the Blu-Ray and behind the scenes shorts show the short grips on all the screen-used sabers.
edit note
Last edited by James Kenobi 1138; Jan 21, 2016 at 11:19 PM.
/ edit note

The image is "too blurry to tell" but yet youre telling everyone the grips are short?!!
Lol

Heres another-

It's okay if you think that. Since we can't see the bottom of the fathead saber, right now there is no way to tell for sure, unless someone could measure using the top of the grip and measure to where the notch is cutout and compare it to the length of the known short grip saber.

If the distance is the same, then the tall grip fathead saber has short grips as well.

However the snow scene saber has short grips.

You say you theres "no way to tell for sure", but yet somehow you know?

Btw the snow saber had long grips, along with every other Luke saber except for the Maz box saber.




Seems to me youre under the impression that youre the only one who can determine details from from blurry photos with certainty while the same claims by others are just "crazy hilarious".

Maybe you should take your own advice.


Keep on mind that you went on about your declaration of short grips, based on blurry photos, for several pages over a course of weeks, insisting that you were correct and everyone was wrong.

I posted a photo and you immediately swoop in and claim its invalid because its too blurry to tell? Lol
 
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It almost looks like they had ANH grips...cold made grips break so they used a knife to cut out the slots, ran some screws in (because why drill and rivet) and then later on either swapped screws or used rivets..hard to say.

Personally I base all my builds of promo photos more than film used because there are generally variations made to account for the actual filming...I consider promo props to be the idea of what it is meant to be by the crew.
 
It almost looks like they had ANH grips...cold made grips break so they used a knife to cut out the slots, ran some screws in (because why drill and rivet) and then later on either swapped screws or used rivets..hard to say.

Personally I base all my builds of promo photos more than film used because there are generally variations made to account for the actual filming...I consider promo props to be the idea of what it is meant to be by the crew.


I tend to go for the version that has the money shot in the film.


Anyhow, a question -

We know for sure that several sabers in the OT used screws to secure the grips.

How many OT sabers do we know for sure used rivets to secure the grips?
 
Valid point, although I'm curious as to why Disney would use rivets in TFA unless they got the idea from ESB....as all the repros and auctioned off sabers used screws....the rivet idea had to come from somewhere.
 
Valid point, although I'm curious as to why Disney would use rivets in TFA unless they got the idea from ESB....as all the repros and auctioned off sabers used screws....the rivet idea had to come from somewhere.

It has not been confirmed for a fact that they used rivets in TFA. As to why anyone thinks any of them have rivets... as far as I'm concerned, it's solely based on one thing and one thing only... the fact that rivets were used to attach the Kobold D-ring to the bottom of a Graflex in ESB (I have no idea nor care what was used to attach the D-ring to the ANH Graflex). That it's. That's probably the only reason people started suspecting that rivets were used on the grips in the first place. Of course once people started suspecting that, these same people started looking at the details to see if they could tell for sure. And that brings us to today when still, no one knows for sure if some of the Graflex sabers used in ESB and TFA had rivets in the grips. I certainly don't know.
 
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Valid point, although I'm curious as to why Disney would use rivets in TFA unless they got the idea from ESB....as all the repros and auctioned off sabers used screws....the rivet idea had to come from somewhere.

For all we know they used rivets because they probably went online and saw a lot of replicas using them.
 
"Crazy Hilarious'

Yes. Crazy hilarious. You've surprised me Pal. A multi-quote post with multi Threads. Crazy. Look I'll take you to Prom but we buy our own tickets, okay?

Look Sport, I see you've got an axe to grind and the time to spend out in the tool shed making sure you get the last word and that you're 'right'.

I get it. Be right. Believe whatever you want. I posted photos and tried to add to the discussion and you enjoy tearing other people down. If that's your bag then by all means let your flag fly. Don't let it go. Don't move on. Make sure everyone knows you were right and you exposed me, you showed everyone that I was wrong.

I've never not admitted when I was wrong. I like how you failed to show that part of the Rey saber Thread. Why? Maybe the axe wasn't sharp enough yet.

I'm trying to add to the discussion, trying to help figure out what fasteners were used. You're digging in my post history, cutting and pasting to put me in my place.

Way to be Pal. Way to be. Please go ahead and multi-quote this post too if it makes you feel better about yourself so you can have the last word. I'll be trying to help with figuring out screws or rivets.
 
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You're digging in my post history, cutting and pasting to put me in my place.

Yup.
Thats exactly im im doing.


Whats the matter, dont like being called out on your hypocrisy?

You're not even going to address those posts from that TFA graflex thread that make you far more guilty of what youre accusing me of?

Why dont you tell us again how everyone else in the TFA thread was "seeing what they wanted to see", but somehow you were able to decifer details from blurry photos?

"All TFA sabers on screen have short grips"

How'd that claim turn out for ya?
 
I didn't respond to your awesome diatribe because I feel it is childish to continue. I can, and could, and if I don't you'll have a snappy comeback and feel better about yourself. I'm trying to take the high road but it's not because I have nothing to say. I could easily talk about it and address your concerns but what's the point with you, nothing would change.

I think this is childless and sad. You want to be 'right'. You want me to be 'wrong'. You've got an axe to grind.

Can't we hug it out Bro ?
 
I didn't respond to your awesome diatribe because I feel it is childish to continue. I can, and could, and if I don't you'll have a snappy comeback and feel better about yourself. I'm trying to take the high road but it's not because I have nothing to say. I could easily talk about it and address your concerns but what's the point with you, nothing would change.

I think this is childless and sad. You want to be 'right'. You want me to be 'wrong'. You've got an axe to grind.

Can't we hug it out Bro ?

Yup.
Thats exactly im im doing.


Whats the matter, dont like being called out on your hypocrisy?

You're not even going to address those posts from that TFA graflex thread that make you far more guilty of what youre accusing me of?

Why dont you tell us again how everyone else in the TFA thread was "seeing what they wanted to see", but somehow you were able to decifer details from blurry photos?

"All TFA sabers on screen have short grips"

How'd that claim turn out for ya?



I think they should shake hands and agree to disagree.

We are all here for a healthy debate and some good information. Thanks to everyone who has posted all of this good information about this Prop. It has helped tremendously with my decision to use screws.

Thanks again everyone.

PEACE. OBI WAN KEN0B1
 
After looking at the photos I posted in this Thread I'm starting to lean personally toward screws being used at least during filming. I know there are thicker and rounder fasteners available (blind rivets, push rivets, etc..) but screws appear to be closest to the fastener shape I see in the Luke/Bespin screen caps. Plus screws are easily available and we know at least one ESB saber did use screws.

I do strongly feel the Wampa cave saber is a Stunt and not the same saber seen on Luke's belt in Bespin. And the post production promotional photos of Mark muddy the waters more as it's a pretty good sized photos with a pretty much straight on shot of the grips and we still can't tell for sure.

Based on the photos I looked at I'm going with screws on the Bespin Hero, jury still out (for me) on the Wampa cave saber. Your mileage may vary.
 
Totally agree: Wampa cave, especially in the shots where it's wiggling, is most likely a stunt. It would just be so much easier to rig that with a bladed hilt. Beyond that... we're gonna need better reference to prove anything conclusively : /

Who would have thought this was such a contentious issue!
 
Jumpin' Jedi~This thread got dark fast!

Can we pause a moment on Schrodinger's nuts :lol and have a civil word or two about this TRI-Ring in the photo James posted on page 4...

ESB05-vi.jpg

Which Hero/Stunt do we think that was on? And, how many people made a replica of it? Just how many GRAFLEX flashes do we have to collect to make every ANH/ESB/ROTJ/TFA/VIII/IX lightsaber any way? It's almost nuts to keep looking for differences!!!

YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW UP MY WALLET! AHH, DAMN YOU PROP MASTERS! FORCE DAMN YOU ALL TO HOTH!!!
 
Same here. If you look at the d-ring on the graflex that they started filming ROTJ with, it has an elongated shape.
 
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