Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

dascoyne · Apr 9, 2016

Lear60man said:
Never saw Alien Reserection.

But come on, Firefly, Avengers, Cabin in the woods, Dollhouse, Buffy? I think they all are really good.

It isn't that Joss is just "good." His specific talent is that he can write and direct actors in an ensemble like nobody else alive. The single most amazing thing about The Avengers is that it made sense and wasn't a complete mess. Folks who know storytelling can appreciate the subtle mechanics in each scene. The film had to make sense to fans as well as to someone watching it for the first time. It's a film with characters originating from completely different film genres (action, sci-fi, espionage, fantasy and horror), and it's no small feat to have made their integration feel so natural. Scenes had such efficiency so as to explain relationships, seed plot devices, advance the plot and make us laugh simultaneously. It's really a near impossible task to have made the Avengers cohere - but on top of that it was actually GOOD. In lesser hands (here it comes ...) The Avengers might have become a film like BvS - a frantic collision of gorgeous storyboards duct taped together in a pastiche that left some people feeling beaten down with information while starving for solid character and story.

(there. I said it. please give me a 10 second head start while I hide.)

KrangPrime · Apr 9, 2016

.the avengers also had anticipation attached to it.

if you saw captain america, and got to like cap, you wanted to know what happened to him after his emergence into TS....and how he adjusted to the future.
You also had the hulk plotline being picked up again as well as iron man.

With BvS, only superman was known..and most people didn't give one rats ass about him from his last film, let alone the people IN the universe he inhabit.

there was no sense of hope, no anticipation, no fun...no....nothing but an excuse to fast track a JL movie.

what also might have helped marvel was little anticipation. loads of people know what expect from Batman and Superman. the lesser known marvel characters, Not So much. I knew NOTHING about the marvel verse going in, and I still know largely noting coming out. I'm just following the movie stuff..

Snikt · Apr 9, 2016

dascoyne said:
It isn't that Joss is just "good." His specific talent is that he can write and direct actors in an ensemble like nobody else alive. The single most amazing thing about The Avengers is that it made sense and wasn't a complete mess. Folks who know storytelling can appreciate the subtle mechanics in each scene. The film had to make sense to fans as well as to someone watching it for the first time. It's a film with characters originating from completely different film genres (action, sci-fi, espionage, fantasy and horror), and it's no small feat to have made their integration feel so natural. Scenes had such efficiency so as to explain relationships, seed plot devices, advance the plot and make us laugh simultaneously. It's really a near impossible task to have made the Avengers cohere - but on top of that it was actually GOOD. In lesser hands (here it comes ...) The Avengers might have become a film like BvS - a frantic collision of gorgeous storyboards duct taped together in a pastiche that left some people feeling beaten down with information while starving for solid character and story.

(there. I said it. please give me a 10 second head start while I hide.)

whooaaaa is someone a Joss Fanboy? DAMN. Keep in mind he had black widow jump all over the place with love interests, that bothered me in the 2 Avengers movies. I dont think it was a near impossible task to get them all together, their characters were developed before avengers. Dont get me wrong, I like the guy, but dascoyne. I think youre giving him a bit TOO much credit. A friend of mines brother is his assistant, and he says he is an insufferable ***** most of the time :lol

But yeah, Hack Snyder is nowhere in the same league as Joss. And he only had 2 heroes to deal with, that everyone knows about. My grandma knows superman and batman. Does she know Thor and Iron man? Hell to the no. How can you mess that up? HOW?!?! :angry

- - - Updated - - -

The Mad Professor said:
Doesn't count. They took his original script and mangled the hell out of it. Same thing happened to the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie.

I personally wouldnt want an Alien film penned by him anyway. I think thats a bit out of his league. Has he done anything in the horror genre? Dont mention Cabin in the Woods cause cmon.

Lear60man · Apr 9, 2016

dascoyne said:
It isn't that Joss is just "good." His specific talent is that he can write and direct actors in an ensemble like nobody else alive. The single most amazing thing about The Avengers is that it made sense and wasn't a complete mess. Folks who know storytelling can appreciate the subtle mechanics in each scene. The film had to make sense to fans as well as to someone watching it for the first time. It's a film with characters originating from completely different film genres (action, sci-fi, espionage, fantasy and horror), and it's no small feat to have made their integration feel so natural. Scenes had such efficiency so as to explain relationships, seed plot devices, advance the plot and make us laugh simultaneously. It's really a near impossible task to have made the Avengers cohere - but on top of that it was actually GOOD. In lesser hands (here it comes ...) The Avengers might have become a film like BvS - a frantic collision of gorgeous storyboards duct taped together in a pastiche that left some people feeling beaten down with information while starving for solid character and story.

(there. I said it. please give me a 10 second head start while I hide.)

Agreed. He has the talent that makes it work. Now back to BVS... I really liked Man of Steele. Lots of people hated it. Sure the main fight was a chore to watch but Snyder did a great job. I understand why the asked him to this film. What I dont know is what happened. Sometimes the studio gets heavy handed and makes changes, rewrites etc.

Snikt · Apr 9, 2016

You really liked man of steel? What did you like about it? Honestly, Im not trying to be a troll or anything. I thought it was decent. Like, anyone could have done that. Nothing wowed me, and it was barely memorable. I didnt hate it, but I didnt really like it. If I was a WB Executive, I definitely wouldnt have handed the reins to a movie franchise that big after MoS.

dascoyne · Apr 10, 2016

Snikt said:
whooaaaa is someone a Joss Fanboy? DAMN. Keep in mind he had black widow jump all over the place with love interests, that bothered me in the 2 Avengers movies. I dont think it was a near impossible task to get them all together, their characters were developed before avengers. Dont get me wrong, I like the guy, but dascoyne. I think youre giving him a bit TOO much credit. A friend of mines brother is his assistant, and he says he is an insufferable ***** most of the time :lol

But yeah, Hack Snyder is nowhere in the same league as Joss. And he only had 2 heroes to deal with, that everyone knows about. My grandma knows superman and batman. Does she know Thor and Iron man? Hell to the no. How can you mess that up? HOW?!?! :angry.

I know how I sound and, as much as I resent being labeled as such, I have to accept the mantle of being a Whedon fanboy. I don't like being labeled a fanboy ... but I pretty much fit the definition. I'm owning up to it.

I have no doubt that Joss can be a tyrant to work with/for. I never said he was a nice guy. I'm sure if I had to work for the guy, unless I was one of his close buddies, I'd end up wanting to kill myself/him. I'm only a fan of his work - but a BIG fan.

The establishing movies for the Avengers was only a small part of the challenge. Even if you didn't watch them you can still follow The Avengers and enjoy it. Getting that many principle characters with adequate screen time and balance is not an easy thing to do. Making a good first superhero ensemble movie is a monumental task no matter how you cut it. Ask anyone who writes.

Jeyl · Apr 10, 2016

Hehehe. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman are racing against Melisa McCarthy, and McCarthy wins by a hair.

1. The Boss $23,480,000
2. Batman v Superman $23,435,000

Snikt · Apr 10, 2016

Thats....embarrassing... But good. Im glad, after seeing it, I dont want this movie to do well. It doesnt deserve it.

KrangPrime · Apr 10, 2016

I saw online...

How does the Boss beat Batman and Superman?

By all accounts, the name draw of batman and superman alone should be able to withstand a bad movie..

and now wB apparently is adding in more batman to suicide squad? how bad is their faith in that movie, especially with all these reshoots?

and wonder woman looks like it's trying to copy captain america, putting her in the early 1900s..

again, someone better get it together at WB.

dascoyne · Apr 10, 2016

No doubt DC/Warner feels that Marvel/Disney has been stealing their turf when it comes to superhero films.

I wonder if Warner's Jack the Giant Slayer, Pan and the upcoming Andy Serkis' Jungle Book: Origins is their attempt to intrude into Disney's fairy tale market in retaliation.

Unfortunately it seems they are nowhere near cracking that genre yet. Jack and Pan were critical and box office duds. And, from the way Disney's Jungle Book is looking and being received, any film that would call itself, Andy Serkis' Jungle Book: Origins, sounds more like a exercise in mo-cap tech and (because of the colon in the title) a hopeful venture into world-building. Just looking at the Disney Jungle Book trailer (which is loaded with heart and nostalgia) it's looking pretty doubtful Warner will get a break with this one either.

teragon · Apr 10, 2016

Don't know about WB's other ventures, but they decided to focus on their main franchises, DC with 2 added movies to their slate — the DCEU is going nowhere gents, don't get your hopes up for a reboot —, a new Harry Potter spin-off franchise and I forgot what the third main one was. So I'd say it doesn't bode well indeed for films like Jungle Book that sounds a bit more experimental and whatnot.
With that said, while BvS is only a shadow of what it could have been, film wise and money wise, I don't think WB is losing money on it. Between the BO, the DVD/Blu-ray sales and merchandising, they certainly will make a profit. Smaller than what they could have had, but still. Now let's see how SS fares.

Speaking of which

NeilT said:
I saw online...

and now wB apparently is adding in more batman to suicide squad? how bad is their faith in that movie, especially with all these reshoots?

Reshoots are normal for movies. Even The Winter Soldier had ones a short time before its release, and god knows this movie is one of the best, if not the best movie Marvel has produced so far. And none of the SS reshoots are adding more batman, he was already in the movie to begin with. The rumours just states that there is more Batman in it than we thought. Which makes plenty of sense given most of the vilains in there were locked up thanks to Batman, it's his own rogues...

Snikt · Apr 10, 2016

ehhh I dont know about that. Yeah, lots of movies do reshoots, but its usually after a test screening, or some sort of feedback from a big group of people etc. I think WB is ****ting their pants because BvS didnt set the world on fire, and they dont know why. It has Batman and Superman in it, they threw a ton of money at it, why isnt it printing money? They just dont get it. And yes, while there was some Batman in it, now they are showing him in the trailers to get people excited about it, because like I mentioned in the other thread, he was the only decent takeaway from BvS. I cant wait for Cap 3. Its going to decimate everything. Im willing to say it will be the highest grossing Marvel flick ever.

Mektar · Apr 11, 2016

If they were "****ting" their pants they would actually do the opposite of what they are doing now which is more then ever focusing on their DC franchise. Will agree tho that cap 3 is looking exceptionally good and will prob make alot of money. Def more then BvS which is unfortenate just for the sake of the franchise...

dascoyne · Apr 11, 2016

Nobody can deny that DC really needs their own dedicated "Kevin Feige" or they're destined to fail over and over again. Audience expectations nowadays are in the stratosphere when it comes to superhero films due to the MCU. Had MoS and BvS come out before 2008 they would have been much better received by critics and fans. WB execs just don't know how to play this game. Nowadays unlike, say, romantic comedies or even crime suspense, a superhero film can't get away with being mediocre since superheroes are inherently ridiculous.

The execs only have their limited metrics on which to base their decisions - and that's poor surrogate for just plain good storytelling which can't be quantified or purchased. Right off the bat (no pun intended) I can tell you that the reception of Batman/Affleck means they'll push for that Batman feature harder as well as having him cross over into as many other films as possible. And we're not likely to see another standalone Superman film for a very long time which, despite my dislike for MoS, is sad.

Mektar · Apr 11, 2016

Well ive said it quite a few times and they actually have people working for them that are way more involved and have alot more knowledge then the current crew. Bruce timm for example has been a long time fav of mine when it came to animated and i wish that he somehow was involved in this but i guess that would be asking the impossible.

The batman movie will def be something we wont have to wait for long. He has always been a big character that makes it a near garanteed hit which we could tell seeing as they chose him as supermans next opponent rather then an actual villain. Superman stand alone will happen eventually and could have happened sooner if they dint screw up the death of superman storyline. It just all could have been going in a different way that wouldn have made more sense. Im still sticking by that i enjoyed BvS as there was enough in there to keep me excited for future movies.

Snikt · Apr 11, 2016

Mektar said:
If they were "****ting" their pants they would actually do the opposite of what they are doing now which is more then ever focusing on their DC franchise. Will agree tho that cap 3 is looking exceptionally good and will prob make alot of money. Def more then BvS which is unfortenate just for the sake of the franchise...

Yeah, they are focusing on it, because it needs to be in order to be profitable. Why else release a trailer for SS with Batman in it? Because Batman was the only decent take away from BvS. They arent going to abandon their only universe building franchise, WB needs the money, something to count on. They are trying with the new Harry Potter property, but thats still a shot in the dark. All their big franchises have ended, and they need something for the long run. I hope Cap 3 beats everything, because the acting in the trailer alone is better than anything DC has put out in my opinion.

I also think dascoyne hit the nail on the head. I want to see another stand alone Superman movie, but someone that has vision, understands and cares for the character, unlike Snyder. The guy is such a ****** man... :facepalm

Mektar · Apr 11, 2016

Snikt said:
I hope Cap 3 beats everything, because the acting in the trailer alone is better than anything DC has put out in my opinion.

I dont care what cap 3 beats, in the end i want every movie to be good.

About the acting tho i mean sure you can hate BvS but saying that the acting in BvS was bad? I mean sure that can be your opinion and there are a few characters in there that werent really that good ( Lex for example ugh) but like the alfred/bruce dynamic for example for me was a highlight and def dint display bad acting. I think the main problem is just what the actors are given to work with.

Solo4114 · Apr 11, 2016

teragon said:
Don't know about WB's other ventures, but they decided to focus on their main franchises, DC with 2 added movies to their slate — the DCEU is going nowhere gents, don't get your hopes up for a reboot —, a new Harry Potter spin-off franchise and I forgot what the third main one was. So I'd say it doesn't bode well indeed for films like Jungle Book that sounds a bit more experimental and whatnot.
With that said, while BvS is only a shadow of what it could have been, film wise and money wise, I don't think WB is losing money on it. Between the BO, the DVD/Blu-ray sales and merchandising, they certainly will make a profit. Smaller than what they could have had, but still. Now let's see how SS fares.

Speaking of which

Reshoots are normal for movies. Even The Winter Soldier had ones a short time before its release, and god knows this movie is one of the best, if not the best movie Marvel has produced so far. And none of the SS reshoots are adding more batman, he was already in the movie to begin with. The rumours just states that there is more Batman in it than we thought. Which makes plenty of sense given most of the vilains in there were locked up thanks to Batman, it's his own rogues...

Minor, pedantic point here, but technically, Captain Boomerang is a Flash rogue (literally, a member of The Rogues).

teragon · Apr 11, 2016

Very true indeed, but in this DCEU, I think batman apprehended him, since Flash isn't active yet.

Snikt · Apr 11, 2016

Mektar said:
I dont care what cap 3 beats, in the end i want every movie to be good.

About the acting tho i mean sure you can hate BvS but saying that the acting in BvS was bad? I mean sure that can be your opinion and there are a few characters in there that werent really that good ( Lex for example ugh) but like the alfred/bruce dynamic for example for me was a highlight and def dint display bad acting. I think the main problem is just what the actors are given to work with.

I want it to beat other movies in the sense that it deserves the recognition for actually being a good movie. Thats what I meant really. Not like how BvS earned its money cause everyone saw it once and was like "aw gawd". I did like the alfred/bruce dynamic, but that was so little, and I have seen it before in the DC animated stuff. And honestly... not to sound rude or mean or anything, cause Im not trying to, but who the hell cares about the bruce/alfred dynamic? They didnt really have anything interesting to say or do, and it was just Alfred being bruces conscious so to speak. Honestly, in a movie with Batman and Superman in it, saying the well acted part came from bruce and his butler is kind of a bummer. Thats what Im saying. And youre right! That is a HUGE problem! The MAIN problem! And Zack Snyder is to blame for that. The guy is so smug too... Oy.

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

Master Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Master Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Master Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Sr Member

Sr Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Sr Member

Sr Member

Master Member

Sr Member

Sr Member

Similar threads