what does the future hold for scale models in big movies?

CutThumb said:

3D printing is proving a huge help to film production. Some of the biggest and most complex printing machines in the industry are currently being used by the studios. Sound to me like you are more worried about its effects on you personally than its actual use during film making. And I don't think you really understand the difference between Studio Scale model minatures , which is what the original question was about , and physical 1:1 prop making which is going from strength to strength at the moment. I suggest you read Cinefex to understand where the VFX industry has been going the last few years and which particular films used what.

Click to expand...

OK lemme rephrase that. I think more model makers will lose jobs in regards to being replaced by 3d printers than the use of cgi. Much like automated robots have replaced most of the automobile industry workforce. Its the natural evolution of things, but I dont think model making will ever die entirely. The key difference is the auto workers blame minorities, while model makers blame G. Lucas. LOL

I dont blame any one. Just not a great time to build models. Always need techs to clean up the prints. Just not a lot skill involved in that

well as a person who builds vfx miniatures for a living (well maybe that should be for a job), let me say miniatures in movies are almost dead, unfortunately. I LOVE doing it but I haven't worked on a feature since Interstellar.
I'm going to try to address some things said here without quoting everyone, we'll see how I do.
yes, miniatures in movies are on a huge decline, England still seams to use them a bit. A lot of the James Bond movies still use miniatures.
I've heard that episode 1 used more models than the OT put together, but that was 20 years ago. A lot has changed since the prequels.
As far as models built for cgi scans or texture maps, they don't really do that anymore. If they need a cgi ship, they just build it in the computer.
I have not heard one model maker blame George Lucas for the decline of models in movies, bad writing, yes.
I work at New Deal Studios, (who is still open technically), but like I said, I haven't done a feature in a while.
I also work at Legacy Effects, on occasion, and what they do isn't really miniatures for movies. it's more suits, and specialty costumes. Don't get me wrong, there model department is super talented, and if they were tasked with building miniatures, I'm sure they would do just fine.
Grown or printed parts is not the decline of models in movies, cgi is.
I'll repeat my rant from another thread.
The way I see it, (and DaveG might disagree with me ) The 2 main reasons models aren't used as much is,
1) VFX supervisors work for digital houses, and they aren't going to give work away to another shop, when they could keep it all in house.
2) Directors like to be able to tweak every little thing about a shot, right up until the end, and you just can't do that with miniatures.
Now hopefully miniatures will get a resurgence, or at least keep getting used, but we'll see.
Also, on a personal pet peeve of mine, you can't have a studio scale model of a cgi ship. CGI ships don't exist in the real world, and if there's a scale to them it's full scale.
I'm sure I've missed some points, but I should get back to work.

Same here, on the last movie I worked on (no longer than 3 weeks ago), while I was hired as modelmaker, we only built weapons, various props and helped on full scale sets. Not a single model.
All the other VFX are done by Weta, ILM and Rodeo FX...

I met a guy who is a modeler here in southern California--the Pasadena area, I believe. I sold him a few modern jet kits. He told me he worked in the film industry, and I can't remember the name of the company, but at the time I recognized the name. I don't really follow the industry, so it must have been a bigger name that you see a lot. Anyway, his take on it was this: he was a modeler who wanted to make it in the business (building studio models) but knew at the time the only real future in building studio models was to do it using computer programs. So at home, he spends his free time building like the rest of us, and at work he is on a keyboard and mouse. So, I'm not just talking about the future, or even the present. This guy went into his career much prior to a few years ago. He went into his education/preparation prior to that. So it's not just where we're headed or even where we are. It's where we have been for while.

I think you can have a blend of the two, just look at Duncan Jones movie MOON it made for a perfect marriage of CGI & models in my eyes.

Not a lost Art at all; think of it, nobody writes or post a letter nowadays and yet, they still sell those fountain pens (Mont Blanc for example). It's for a niche and not the masses.
Same with real, physical models. One day, it's going to be done for a niche of film makers, but for most of the movies being produced, you'll have to digest the good with the bad CGI.

joberg said:

Not a lost Art at all; think of it, nobody writes or post a letter nowadays and yet, they still sell those fountain pens (Mont Blanc for example). It's for a niche and not the masses.
Same with real, physical models. One day, it's going to be done for a niche of film makers, but for most of the movies being produced, you'll have to digest the good with the bad CGI.

Click to expand...

While I don't think it will become a completely lost art I do fear that a lot of the technique and skill in filming them might become a lost art some day. If it truly degenerates into a niche, would the craft conceivably stagnate then inevitably degenerate? Already there will be filmmakers who will only know movies filmed digitally and never have or desire the experience of actual film. I can imagine a generation of filmmakers years from now never being exposed to anything but CGI in their studies and understanding physical models only in a historical context. And that makes me a little sad.

I'm not in the industry so I am, in part, speaking out of my backside. But I do know fountain pens. The craft in making nibs write beautifully actually is actually a dying art. Mont Blanc is a perfect example of a fountain pen that's overrated and over priced for the materials and craftsmanship. Most folks pay for the exclusivity but have never experienced a truly great workhorse fountain pen so they wouldn't know the difference. You can get a restored Parker 51 fountain pen that writes magnificently but it needs to be reconditioned by an expert. There are some master Japanese nib makers but they seem to be uniformly elderly and I think one of them just died a few years ago.

People like us will keep model building alive. But we're doing small-scale static models.

How many of us have experience building a fighter jet model that is 6ft long & looks realistic getting blown apart in super-slo-mo footage?

Does a 15ft long spaceship count?

swgeek said:

Does a 15ft long spaceship count?

Click to expand...

Possibly.

I think we may be in trouble. Cgi is all the rave now. The chances of seeing any large scratch built kit bashed models for movies is all but over. Could you imagine had they built another new Falcon? Say maybe 40" or so completely kit bashed and all? We would have all lost our minds with new ss builds and ids and such. Would have kept us all happily going crazy for about 5 yrs or more. But it seems those days are gone. So all we do is keep doing the same star wars models over and over again. How many dgastino falcon threads are there?
We're desperate for new material. We're dying.

Well, the alternative is to try and go with your own designs, after all there is nothing to stop anyone from using all their skills and artistry on something else. It won't be studio scale and it will mean facing a lot of talented competition in the general modelling thread, but after the dearth of any really good ships in TFA I've cracked open my old art portfolio and I'm giving a couple of my very old designs a shot. I may need to get some parts like cockpits to finish them off but its surprising fun messing with them using wood, plastic and kit parts to scratch in the details, which is very old school ILM. To be honest its kind of relaxing, there is no pressure and its very satisfying to see something take shape that I thought of thirty odd years ago. And its using every skill set I learned here in studio scale. I really should finish up my AT ST first though!!!

faustus100 said:

I think we may be in trouble. Cgi is all the rave now. The chances of seeing any large scratch built kit bashed models for movies is all but over. Could you imagine had they built another new Falcon? Say maybe 40" or so completely kit bashed and all? We would have all lost our minds with new ss builds and ids and such. Would have kept us all happily going crazy for about 5 yrs or more. But it seems those days are gone. So all we do is keep doing the same star wars models over and over again. How many dgastino falcon threads are there?
We're desperate for new material. We're dying.

Click to expand...

I am sure it´s been said already multiple times, but I have to put it out there in my own words.

CGI is the more versatile and streamlined tool, especially in the minds of producers. The new generation of producers in all areas gets to dabble in vfx during their education, they edit and compose and get a basic understanding of the tools. This makes it easier for them to understand what is going on. CGI also seems more readily available during the production process, things are (in their minds) easier to change, and there is a constant stream of young and hungry artists coming onto the market, eager to prove their abilities for cheap.

Classical Model building is a craft that needs to be learned by doing it, that is not taught anywhere but is very often self-taught. CGI knowledge can be self-taught, but there are tons of universities and colleges out there offering courses.

However, exceptional talent like our very own member @Vos study product design, stand out in their particular area of interest and of course land a job. But I bet it´s a rather tough road to success, and you do not know how long it will last. But if you have the stamina and connections and deliver quality then you can be that one guy who still caters to a niche market if such services are needed.

All in all, I guess that we won´t see a lot of classical model work on the big screen in the future. TV movies and series are becoming more and more popular but need to be produced very, very cost effective, video games become more and more movie like (see the latest tomb raider) and those do not utilize or need model work.

It´s sad, but that is the way things go.

It all sounds like "Gloom & Doom" people. Try to find a good mason, or furniture restorer, or...you get my drift. They still exist (difficult to find, but not impossible) and they're called Artisans! (I know young people coming back to the trades and loving it, getting paid big bucks for what they're doing). Model maker can and will be called Artisans just the same because of the rare demand of a particular film maker (purist would say some of you...)Disappear? Unlikely! Rare in the future? Sure!

It's not the same thing. Everybody has, and uses furniture. Name me 5 movies in the past 5 years that used actual on screen models. It's closer to VCR manufacturing, who still makes VCR's? No one, there's no demand. Who's going to be making these models for movies? We are all going to be busy doing other jobs. You can't have a career on 1 or 2 jobs every 3 or 4 years. Trust me, I hope I'm very wrong, but I just don't see it. Luckily for me commercials are a different story.

Theres always Porn

Well I hear 80% of the worlds sex toys are made right here in the valley. So maybe that could be a new career.

IEDBOUNTYHUNTER said:

Theres always Porn

Click to expand...

There are models who work in p*rn movies, but there´s no model work in p*rn.

Ooooh ... now I get what you´re sayin ... but trust me, can´t make a livin´ in that industry, been there, done that But one can always keep the mustache ...

I hear you swgeek...I remember the time everyone said that vinyl was dead. By being rare to find, your price will be higher for the next job. Until someone at the top sees the light, CGI will dominate. Then again, the ones at the top don't necessarily know how to build a model in the first place:-(