Jaitea
Master Member
Because its a rough impression of the real (5 foot) Falcon & not meant to be studied...... it is a stand in,......a quick sketch of the 5 footer
J
New DeAgostini Star Wars collection!
- Thread starter clancampbell
- Start date
Because its a rough impression of the real (5 foot) Falcon & not meant to be studied...... it is a stand in,......a quick sketch of the 5 footer
J
Well duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Both
Go back to playing with your mandibles on the falcon buddy.:lol I should have said and/or, but yes both would be awesome to have. As much as I would love to attempt to scratch build an 8' SD, there's no way I can devote that much brain power into it. My head would explode like that guy from Scanners.
Actually... since the concept of God itself didn't exist during the time of Star Wars and really only started during the birth of humans on Earth, but the SW universe existed in a different time LONG ago and FAR away, quite possibly before the dawn of Mankind on Earth itself... so it is only logical to assume that since the Force existed back then, it was around before God!
LOL So...Hey... not to a Jedi like me!
I think iut was Ben Kenobi's ghost that said "It was the truth, from a certain point of view!"
star-art
Sr Member
I thought this was an excellent summary of the history of SS modeling (especially as it applies here at the RPF). So much so that I have saved a copy of that post in case the topic comes up again (as it tends to do from time to time).
Well said!
I understand and respect your points. But I disagree. If this kind of thinking would dominate, we would not have computers to discuss this.
I don't say that people doing research (in whatever area) should not be rewarded. But knowledge is useless when it is not accessable. And noone could do any research if he wasn't supported by others, starting from being taught at school.
I have done some costly research on modeling subjects on my own, and up until now, I posted everything for free online, even wrote a whole article for the last major project. I do feel frustrated if others use my work to earn money by putting the drawings up on shapeways and selling the models without even mentioning me, but if I feel so, I can sell the information the next time for money.
But not sharing it at all feels wrong. Having to reinvent the wheel for the 100th time feels boring and useless.
[To avoid misunderstandings: I'll respect any terms, under which someone gave information to me, and won't share anything I got]
Cheers, Thorsten
My Post was not a justification... it was an explanation. and I think you missed my point.
The people that have this information - DO SHARE. They just don't share it with everyone. They share it with people that are serious about the hobby. and as for your computer analogy...
I'm a computer scientist by training and trade I'm fairly familiar with how computers evolved... it was not some giant collaborative effort to bring them into being. It was the efforts of many small groups trying all kinds of whacky things until they something that worked. If something worked particularly well it was ruthlessly copied and stolen... pending patents be damned. MANY of the developments were at the direction of the US government spending Research and development dollars, and really started to take off (literally) when the US decided it wanted to win the space race and computers needed to be smaller and more powerful. To this day its not collaboration that drives the innovations its profits... smaller faster cheaper to make drive the market to build computers into cell phones wrist watches etc. if you think AMD and INTEL are working together to design their chips... think again. they both may invest in chip making technology, but they do it for themselves - not for the greater good of each other or humanity...
That is not to say that advancements do not get shared eventually... but its usually because its copied not given.
Jedi Dade
The people that have this information - DO SHARE. They just don't share it with everyone. They share it with people that are serious about the hobby. and as for your computer analogy...
I'm a computer scientist by training and trade I'm fairly familiar with how computers evolved... it was not some giant collaborative effort to bring them into being. It was the efforts of many small groups trying all kinds of whacky things until they something that worked. If something worked particularly well it was ruthlessly copied and stolen... pending patents be damned. MANY of the developments were at the direction of the US government spending Research and development dollars, and really started to take off (literally) when the US decided it wanted to win the space race and computers needed to be smaller and more powerful. To this day its not collaboration that drives the innovations its profits... smaller faster cheaper to make drive the market to build computers into cell phones wrist watches etc. if you think AMD and INTEL are working together to design their chips... think again. they both may invest in chip making technology, but they do it for themselves - not for the greater good of each other or humanity...
That is not to say that advancements do not get shared eventually... but its usually because its copied not given.
Jedi Dade
The sad truth is that wheres theres knowledge theres double dealings
So just take yourself out of the knowledge sharing and theres no more double dealings..
Result...my mates get what I know and they help me out when I ask, my mates won't let me down as they're mates first.....
If I cant do it , I cant have it ...
Its a win win, the trust with mates for ever grows and the results i achieve become more home grown.... pride gets bigger, skills get bigger , ability gets bigger...
Get good mates is the answer, mates don't trade they give!!!
So just take yourself out of the knowledge sharing and theres no more double dealings..
Result...my mates get what I know and they help me out when I ask, my mates won't let me down as they're mates first.....
If I cant do it , I cant have it ...
Its a win win, the trust with mates for ever grows and the results i achieve become more home grown.... pride gets bigger, skills get bigger , ability gets bigger...
Get good mates is the answer, mates don't trade they give!!!
I do see your point, and I am very greatful when someone helps me. But I think it misses the point: If the telent you need the most for modeling is to get contacts to the right men, it has nothing to do with "being serious" about the hobby or actual modeling skills. And that's what I meant with the computer analogy: To achieve anything above the basic hunting and gathering from some thousand years ago, you always need collaborative effort. Noone, how brilliant he may be, will build a PC, or ID all kit parts all on his own, because he would have no money to buy the kits, no information when the original was built, which kits could be in, he wouldn't even know that the original exists if noone would share information about it.
So my point is: Why should the chain of information be cut at the kit ID level? For me, this is done if the information is not shared openly (again, which does not mean without reward). There's the example with the Kerr plans of the TOS Enterprise. It seems to be limited to a very small circle, but what is the point of having the most accurate plans ever made, if they are not used? People would buy them for good money, and I think that's fair. But why hiding information? In the TOS BigE case, there may be reasons I am not aware of, but for the usual kit IDs, I can't see such a reason.
The next point is that it devides people. If you get information from A, and are befriended with B, but A states you can't share it with B, what's the whole point of it? Risking friendship for kit IDs? There seem to be some examples of this mechanism here on this board, and I doubt that it's worth it... at least for me.
This all does not mean that I don't understand your point, but perhaps, I just don't like secrecy...
Cheers,
Thorsten
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But you can have double dealings only if you have two groups, one which is yours, and another. Then you risk one of "your" group "selling" to the other. But if you share knowledge with everyone, noone needs to deal with it.
So my point is: Why should the chain of information be cut at the kit ID level? For me, this is done if the information is not shared openly (again, which does not mean without reward). There's the example with the Kerr plans of the TOS Enterprise. It seems to be limited to a very small circle, but what is the point of having the most accurate plans ever made, if they are not used? People would buy them for good money, and I think that's fair. But why hiding information? In the TOS BigE case, there may be reasons I am not aware of, but for the usual kit IDs, I can't see such a reason.
The next point is that it devides people. If you get information from A, and are befriended with B, but A states you can't share it with B, what's the whole point of it? Risking friendship for kit IDs? There seem to be some examples of this mechanism here on this board, and I doubt that it's worth it... at least for me.
This all does not mean that I don't understand your point, but perhaps, I just don't like secrecy...
Cheers,
Thorsten
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But you can have double dealings only if you have two groups, one which is yours, and another. Then you risk one of "your" group "selling" to the other. But if you share knowledge with everyone, noone needs to deal with it.
Theres no secrecy if your not part of a club, ive removed myself from the sharing of info which I used to do always and openly. when you get screwed you learn what important to you..
whats important to me is my mates, not the hobby. The hobby will exist with or without me so nothings changed in the hobby but I'm a damn site happier knowing i won't get screwed anymore.....
If I choose a model to build myself a model then thats got nothing to do with anyone else but me and the people i talk about it with, this forum does not support its members or deal with the bad eggs anymore...so there fore i no longer use this forum to share my work when it comes to what i consider to be new information or at least new information to me, I'll share it with people I like and know and want to......it doesn't hold the hobby back and doesn't stop anyone from doing anything they like. There are hundreds of threads here with page after page of shared info for people to look at and read, nothings changed ?
If people want to give they're info away that has to be done freely or on their own terms, I choose my own terms now cos when it was freely given it caused more trouble than it was worth with a few select people, so just don't bother with it and it won't bother me..
i will still have models I want and if I cant do it, hey ho ..not bothered...it pushes me harder and to do better... An open policy only works if everyone plays the same game, they don't so it will always be abused for self gain..... they can do that till the cows come home and it won't bother me as I'm not in the loop .....dont need the loop...or want to be part of any loop.....
Me enjoying this hobby has grown since I don't involve anyone but friends, so for me it works. I don't build anything other than Star Wars stuff and don't know anything about any other subject
On the other hand like with the welding droids, I never shard any real info but encouraged this asking the questions to find out the answers, and in no time from nowhere a new thread has nearly all the kit id's in it for 2 new models that as far as I know hadn't been touched before... so not sharing also can be a positive thing as it removes the lazy bone of those wanting to build the subject, then when you see people joining in and thinking and brain farting it shows a commitment and help and advice is thrown back into the mix.... Very productive and also very good to see more people taking part rather than standing with hands out expecting !!
whats important to me is my mates, not the hobby. The hobby will exist with or without me so nothings changed in the hobby but I'm a damn site happier knowing i won't get screwed anymore.....
If I choose a model to build myself a model then thats got nothing to do with anyone else but me and the people i talk about it with, this forum does not support its members or deal with the bad eggs anymore...so there fore i no longer use this forum to share my work when it comes to what i consider to be new information or at least new information to me, I'll share it with people I like and know and want to......it doesn't hold the hobby back and doesn't stop anyone from doing anything they like. There are hundreds of threads here with page after page of shared info for people to look at and read, nothings changed ?
If people want to give they're info away that has to be done freely or on their own terms, I choose my own terms now cos when it was freely given it caused more trouble than it was worth with a few select people, so just don't bother with it and it won't bother me..
i will still have models I want and if I cant do it, hey ho ..not bothered...it pushes me harder and to do better... An open policy only works if everyone plays the same game, they don't so it will always be abused for self gain..... they can do that till the cows come home and it won't bother me as I'm not in the loop .....dont need the loop...or want to be part of any loop.....
Me enjoying this hobby has grown since I don't involve anyone but friends
, so for me it works. I don't build anything other than Star Wars stuff and don't know anything about any other subject On the other hand like with the welding droids, I never shard any real info but encouraged this asking the questions to find out the answers, and in no time from nowhere a new thread has nearly all the kit id's in it for 2 new models that as far as I know hadn't been touched before... so not sharing also can be a positive thing as it removes the lazy bone of those wanting to build the subject, then when you see people joining in and thinking and brain farting it shows a commitment and help and advice is thrown back into the mix.... Very productive and also very good to see more people taking part rather than standing with hands out expecting !!
Ok. But I didn't say free. I just said openly.
Guy, from what I have read about the Slave 1, I perfectly understand you. Which doesn't mean that I would make the same conclusions.
But let's end the discussion, it's OT anyways.
Cheers,
Thorsten
The problem is that people have been "burned" before, in helping. Or friendships have been shattered/factions created/wars waged. You would not BELIEVE how aggressive some of the people in the scene are. Some people react in different ways and some people feel very much entitled to their chosen subject matter and act as if no one may dare dabble in the same arena. It's silly. But it's the landscape you find yourself in. Where grown men act like children over models made 40 years ago, that 99.9% of the population don't care about at this exacting level. But it is also amazingly fun, rewarding, invigorating, and nearly magical.
My advice - build, ask for help when you need it, share when you can, ignore the haters, have fun, relax, accept constructive criticism, don't let any one tell you that you're wrong for doing something you chose to do, and for the love of god, pace yourself.
My advice - build, ask for help when you need it, share when you can, ignore the haters, have fun, relax, accept constructive criticism, don't let any one tell you that you're wrong for doing something you chose to do, and for the love of god, pace yourself.
Thorsten,
I have painfully learned over the last few years that if you have secrets, be it info, photos, part IDs - just don't tell any one they exist. No one will ask for what they don't know you have. It takes away any strain on a friendship that way. People won't ask for things if they don't know you have them. Most of the problems I have seen happen and have myself stupidly experienced have been from sharing what I should not have, asking for something that I/they wasn't/weren't allowed to have but knew about, or saying "oh yeah it's out there but there's no way to get it".
Unfortunately things stay secret. But I also have seen that not everything stays "secret" forever. It all comes out eventually. And patience is the one thing you need in this hobby, second only to focusing one one damn thing at a time, LOL
I have painfully learned over the last few years that if you have secrets, be it info, photos, part IDs - just don't tell any one they exist. No one will ask for what they don't know you have. It takes away any strain on a friendship that way. People won't ask for things if they don't know you have them. Most of the problems I have seen happen and have myself stupidly experienced have been from sharing what I should not have, asking for something that I/they wasn't/weren't allowed to have but knew about, or saying "oh yeah it's out there but there's no way to get it".
Unfortunately things stay secret. But I also have seen that not everything stays "secret" forever. It all comes out eventually. And patience is the one thing you need in this hobby, second only to focusing one one damn thing at a time, LOL
Ok... my turn to chime in on the whole sharing info thingy... I've been reading over this thread and have my own opinions and like many who know me, am always open to sharing my thoughts on the matter at hand.
Personally I can see both sides of the story... on one hand, you have the person with the information. He's spent years of his own time and effort doing research and scouring thru mounds of information. In the beginning he shared his information openly and had no problems giving it out, until he was burned or slammed with requests for that info. I can understand the hesitation of just giving out that information anymore.
Then you have the other hand... an newbie who is looking for that information. Now this could be someone who is genuinely interested in the hobby or craft or it could be someone with scrupulous intentions of using that information for his own dastardly ends. Personally I find a lot of newbies these days have become so lazy that they expect anyone who has information to share it without any thought on the matter. Unfortunately that's the generation we're faced with these days. The generation of instant gratification when a search is performed or a question is asked. Gone are the days of etiquette and respect for those around them and many end up throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way (the thought of Kylo Ren slashing at the computer consoles come to mind).
Here's where I think the problem in this thread has come from... you have someone asking for info, and then they get told no, and then they get hurt over it thinking that they are being attacked. Honestly, I think there should be some kind of vetting process... sure I have the information, but why should I give it to you? What are you going to do with it? What do I get out of it? Perhaps you can find the information on your own... go look.
If I get asked the same request for information I tend to try being polite and let them know that either its widely available elsewhere or I just don't know. But that's me.
Personally I can see both sides of the story... on one hand, you have the person with the information. He's spent years of his own time and effort doing research and scouring thru mounds of information. In the beginning he shared his information openly and had no problems giving it out, until he was burned or slammed with requests for that info. I can understand the hesitation of just giving out that information anymore.
Then you have the other hand... an newbie who is looking for that information. Now this could be someone who is genuinely interested in the hobby or craft or it could be someone with scrupulous intentions of using that information for his own dastardly ends. Personally I find a lot of newbies these days have become so lazy that they expect anyone who has information to share it without any thought on the matter. Unfortunately that's the generation we're faced with these days. The generation of instant gratification when a search is performed or a question is asked. Gone are the days of etiquette and respect for those around them and many end up throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way (the thought of Kylo Ren slashing at the computer consoles come to mind).
Here's where I think the problem in this thread has come from... you have someone asking for info, and then they get told no, and then they get hurt over it thinking that they are being attacked. Honestly, I think there should be some kind of vetting process... sure I have the information, but why should I give it to you? What are you going to do with it? What do I get out of it? Perhaps you can find the information on your own... go look.
If I get asked the same request for information I tend to try being polite and let them know that either its widely available elsewhere or I just don't know. But that's me.
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
I haven't heard this mentioned yet. Monetary value... Each and every part used on a model has a monetary value associated with it. Who found it? How long did it take to find? How rare is the kit? How much did the kit cost? This hobby is a very time consuming and expensive to get into. The personal rewards are priceless as are the true friends made in process.
No one is entitled to recipes or information. There is plenty of info and partial lists out there to get a general start. You just have to look for it.
No one is entitled to recipes or information. There is plenty of info and partial lists out there to get a general start. You just have to look for it.
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