Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

At least according to Wookiepedia, the new TIE/fo is actually shielded, and is designed as a superiority fighter. The blinder-wings are, indeed, a problem, but who knows. Someone will probably end up explaining why it still works (e.g., new pilot helmets include a HUD that incorporates external camera feeds from outside the wings or something).

I expect we'll see a rollout of more evolved and divergent designs in subsequent films.

As has been said, this film was designed to be instantly familiar not just to the old school fans, but to the casual fans or potential fans who'd never really paid attention at all, but still know the iconic imagery.

I can't stress enough how much iconic imagery matters to people who are unfamiliar with Star Wars -- namely, the people you want to win over to become new fans. Those new potential fans -- simply by virtue of existing in this culture -- have been exposed to a very, very, very superficial version of Star Wars. They know there are X-wing fighters. They know there are TIE Fighters. They know there's some kind of Empire and some kind of Rebellion. They know there are little dome-headed droids. They know there are white-clad stormtroopers, and black clad evil jedi-like dudes with red laser swords. They know Darth Vader is Luke Skywaker's father, and Princess Leia wears a cinnamon-bun hairdo. And so on and so forth.

But it's all based on iconography rather than an actual knowledge of the films in any kind of depth. So, the new film needed to include that IF its goal was to broaden the audience for the franchise and bring Star Wars undeniably back into the cultural consciousness.

Much as fans like to grouse about how "They should have done XYZ instead," I think that it is incredibly difficult to pull off what they managed to do: to make a film that is at once generally well received by old fans and which substantially broadens the audience and fan base, which kicks the merchandising machine back into overdrive, and which is generally well received by critics. Fans can usually manage to come up with ideas that might satisfy one, maybe two of those criteria, but a lot of what we'd come up with is more designed, well, for us. And a lot of that is still crap, too (still lookin' at you, EU...) that is so mired in what came before as to suggest there is no vision beyond what already exists.
 
And apparently the spec ops version also has a hyperdrive. I kinda liked that they showed restraint in not going too crazy with the TIE craft but I too was surprised/disappointed by the lack of even other TIEs we had seen before like the TIE bombers and TIE interceptors. The EU always posited that the interceptor was a replacement for the TIE fighter but I had wondered if the movie was going to go with the idea that it was simply set up for a different mission profile (interception vs space superiority), which frankly makes more sense. The Starkiller attack was a logical place to see them play a role in intercepting and fighting off the X-wings but alas they were not seen even then.
 
....and another VFX video....(mostly the same clips,.....but I'm not complaining)


J
 
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I like ships getting reused. Really, our own planes haven't changed that much in that amount of time.


I still think it was mistake that the prequels didn't have the Republic flying shiny new X-wings and Y-wings. Before the prequels I always imagined that in OT, the Rebels were mostly using old ships they fished out of junkyards and maybe souped-up a bit, while the Empire had new hotness. It made more sense...when you're on the run and hunted it's hard to set up manufacturing assembly lines. Besides...in the OT they were always good about making them look a little junked up. So it stood to reason that back in the past, those were the new hotness. Surprised me when the prequels didn't do that and instead had mostly ships we'd never seen before.

now realistically, the Rebels would probably be flying the new hotness by now, after the fall of the Empire...but as Solo4114 said...they needed to be recognizable and iconic. They did at least upgrade the X-wings a bit...so maybe for those, after the fall of the Empire, rebel pilots had found that the souped-up X-wing style was actually pretty good and started remaking them as the new hotness.

As for first order, they obviously have a massive hard-on for all things empire. Some of it, yes, is probably just what they were able to dig out of mothballs, or Inherit, but some of it is obviously that they just dig the Empire's groove. Like modern white supremacists using swastikas...they are not really connected to 1930s Germany, other than a desire to copy them a bit.
 
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DINVADER said:
This thread and comments like his not liking them using RMQ's work is even more proof they'll never please everyone. They get told to go more old school, they do and some complain it's too rehash, they do new stuff and it suddenly "It doesn't feel like SW" I just wanna facepalm it all. I don't know how these directors handle the pressure as insanely huge as it is.
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Exactly, you've hit it on the head, it's a disaster for fans to read the vagaries of what everyone wants image what it's like for the director.
its like someone asked a director , will there be a directors cut ...........his reply was , there was a directors cut ......you saw it at the cinema . (That could have been Ridley Scott I cannot remember but it always makes me laugh thinking about it )
 
Vacformedhero said:
Exactly, you've hit it on the head, it's a disaster for fans to read the vagaries of what everyone wants image what it's like for the director.
its like someone asked a director , will there be a directors cut ...........his reply was , there was a directors cut ......you saw it at the cinema . (That could have been Ridley Scott I cannot remember but it always makes me laugh thinking about it )
Click to expand...

that is a great quote, I love it. but coming from Ridley Scott ?
five versions of Blade runner and counting . LOL
 
annanake said:
that is a great quote, I love it. but coming from Ridley Scott ?
five versions of Blade runner and counting . LOL
Click to expand...

But there were a LOT of problems with Warners at the time of BR's release,.....they didn't share Sir Ridley's vision & forced him to make it theres....dumbing it down & happy ending,...its only now that it resembles what he'd pushed for......but the sad thing is that even now he is still being coerced into forming his vision to the studio's demands,.....look at Prometheus

J
 
AJTaliesen said:
I like ships getting reused. Really, out own planes haven't changed that much in that amount of time.
Click to expand...
True, C-130s and B-52s currently used date back to the 1950s. No A-10 'warthog' attack aircraft is newer than 1984, if memory serves.
The Iraqis in Desert Storm 1991 didn't care that the 16" shells being lobbed at them by Iowa class battleships were from WW2.
 
Solo4114, I think you may have misconstrued what I was getting at. I like the TIE Fighter and I do think it has its place. Even in ROTJ, we start out with TIE Fighters flanking Vader's shuttle in to dock before we ever see the Interceptors. We started with the familiar and then added the new. That's what I'd hoped to see here. TIE Fighters escorting the landing craft, since it was a low-risk mission and they weren't expecting to engage hostile fighters. Then either fighters or bombers or both for the attack on Niima Outpost. Then add in more variants for the big ceremony for the first firing of the Starkiller weapon. And Interceptors (with Fighters accompanying) for the big dogfight at the end. The best place for an Avenger or Phantom to show up would have been the SpecOps ship they stole, as both of those have shields and hyperdrives, both have been in the EU for decades, and you could have checked off "cool super-fighter" and "fanservice" boxes with one craft. Incidentally, since the letters are adjacent, I initially typed "danservice" there. Given who I'm talking to, I'm not sure I want to speculate on what that would be. :p

Regarding craft in the Prequels... *resigned shrug* I've maintained that one of the biggest balls dropped by George wasnot actually spending any time on the Clone Wars -- a big thing that everyone had been wondering about since 1977. We saw the opening battle, and then the final days. The years in between? Had to wait several more years for a cartoon show to delve into the actual fighting. But yeah. We got the early-model Y-Wings, and also Z-95 Headhunters -- the predecessors to the T-65 X-Wing. From how battered and worn they were, I figured the Rebels' X-Wings in Star Wars were about a decade old -- so partway between III and IV. Since the individualized helmets got reused in both sequels, my headcanon was that as Republic Navy transistioned to Imperial Starfleet and more and more people got disgruntled with the Imperial way of doing things, whole squadrons started defecting, that what we saw were late Republic-era flight suits, ships, and helmets bearing squadron insignia, like the contemporary Sundowners or Jolly Rogers or Pukin' Dogs. Then, partly because of attrition and partly for skill-based reasons, they got shuffled around in the Alliance into ad-hoc squadrons regardless of where they'd started out.

I'm hoping to see Clone Wars (and later, post-Clone Wars models) surplus Y-Wings show up, and also maybe X-Wings that are only a few years old.

--Jonah
 
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Jaitea said:
But there were a LOT of problems with Warners at the time of BR's
release,.....they didn't share Sir Ridley's vision & forced him to make it theres....dumbing it down & happy ending,...its only now that it resembles what he'd pushed for......but the sad thing is that even now he is still being coerced into forming his vision to the studio's demands,.....look at Prometheus

J
Click to expand...

I know I am glad they have the different versions and would not mind a sixth lol.
I just wish some one would film Do androids dream of electric sheep some day .

- - - Updated - - -

And now bad to our regularly scheduled program Star Wars lol
 
Man, this movie is just so much ch fun. Did you guys here the ST searching Starkiller base say "We think they have split up now" a direct ANH quote. I also thought it was funny when Ren tells the female ST that Rey was just beginning to test her powers and would grow stronger. She was probably like "WTF is he going on about?".
 
Bryancd said:
Man, this movie is just so much ch fun. Did you guys here the ST searching Starkiller base say "We think they have split up now" a direct ANH quote. I also thought it was funny when Ren tells the female ST that Rey was just beginning to test her powers and would grow stronger. She was probably like "WTF is he going on about?".
Click to expand...

I heard the Stormtrooper say that ANH line. It's very quiet so I had to really listen to make sure I heard it right on the second viewing. It was a great little nod. And yes the film is so much fun and I think that's it's biggest appeal.


Ben
 
Also, it's interesting how Maz explains how evil has taken on many forms in the galaxy and mentions how she saw the Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order. That's makes me feel like they are all unique and makes me even more inclined to believe Snoke and Ren are not Sith but something entirely new. And it's interesting how the First Order takes children and raises them to do one thing, almost an exact mirror of what the Jedi Order did.
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
@Solo4114, I think you may have misconstrued what I was getting at. I like the TIE Fighter and I do think it has its place. Even in ROTJ, we start out with TIE Fighters flanking Vader's shuttle in to dock before we ever see the Interceptors. We started with the familiar and then added the new. That's what I'd hoped to see here. TIE Fighters escorting the landing craft, since it was a low-risk mission and they weren't expecting to engage hostile fighters. Then either fighters or bombers or both for the attack on Niima Outpost. Then add in more variants for the big ceremony for the first firing of the Starkiller weapon. And Interceptors (with Fighters accompanying) for the big dogfight at the end. The best place for an Avenger or Phantom to show up would have been the SpecOps ship they stole, as both of those have shields and hyperdrives, both have been in the EU for decades, and you could have checked off "cool super-fighter" and "fanservice" boxes with one craft. Incidentally, since the letters are adjacent, I initially typed "danservice" there. Given who I'm talking to, I'm not sure I want to speculate on what that would be. :p

Regarding craft in the Prequels... *resigned shrug* I've maintained that one of the biggest balls dropped by George wasnot actually spending any time on the Clone Wars -- a big thing that everyone had been wondering about since 1977. We saw the opening battle, and then the final days. The years in between? Had to wait several more years for a cartoon show to delve into the actual fighting. But yeah. We got the early-model Y-Wings, and also Z-95 Headhunters -- the predecessors to the T-65 X-Wing. From how battered and worn they were, I figured the Rebels' X-Wings in Star Wars were about a decade old -- so partway between III and IV. Since the individualized helmets got reused in both sequels, my headcanon was that as Republic Navy transistioned to Imperial Starfleet and more and more people got disgruntled with the Imperial way of doing things, whole squadrons started defecting, that what we saw were late Republic-era flight suits, ships, and helmets bearing squadron insignia, like the contemporary Sundowners or Jolly Rogers or Pukin' Dogs. Then, partly because of attrition and partly for skill-based reasons, they got shuffled around in the Alliance into ad-hoc squadrons regardless of where they'd started out.

I'm hoping to see Clone Wars (and later, post-Clone Wars models) surplus Y-Wings show up, and also maybe X-Wings that are only a few years old.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

I don't actually disagree with your general point on wanting more variety. I just kinda got off on a tangent (again) about how impressed I am with what the filmmakers seemed to be doing, and how well they pulled it off.

TFA's success has really got me looking back at my past attitudes on what should have happened, and left me recognizing that, while it might have made the story better and might have improved what Iwanted to see, it wouldn't have been accessible to the general public.

Bryancd said:
Man, this movie is just so much ch fun. Did you guys here the ST searching Starkiller base say "We think they have split up now" a direct ANH quote. I also thought it was funny when Ren tells the female ST that Rey was just beginning to test her powers and would grow stronger. She was probably like "WTF is he going on about?".
Click to expand...

Caught that the first time! I chuckled to myself. I was hoping they'd follow up with "We think they may be on levels five and six..."
 
Also when Rey is sneaking around, you hear two troopers discussing a new model of ship or something just like in the ANH Ben deactivating the tractor beam scene.
 
DINVADER said:
Perhaps THE FIRST ORDER kept to the TIEs because they were less costly. They had probably put most funding into Starkiller Base.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing. Between Starkiller base and Ren's Star Destroyer they had to cut costs somewhere, so TIE fighters is where they cut costs at.

It's not that unrealistic for the FO to be using modernized TIEs instead of something fancier like Interceptors or some EU design. There's precedence for this in the real world, plenty of countries are flying older designs that have been modernized to keep them flying and useful, there have been updated F & A-4s flown by various countries long after the US had retired both of them from active service, there are countries out there that still fly the MiG-21 albeit in updated/upgraded form. There have also been any number of advanced designs that, while superior to legacy designs on paper, either prove to be not that good in reality or are just too expensive to field in any numbers. The F-22 is a good example of this, by all measures it's a vastly superior design to the F-15 but we're still flying lots of Eagles because the F-22 proved to be too expensive and the numbers were capped at a ridiculously low 184 planes. The other TIE designs could have proven to be like the F-22, too expensive to produce in great numbers and it's also possible that they were just not that much better than a regular TIE or the TIE/fo, at least not enough to justify the cost; sort of like how we've stuck with the M16 (and variants) all of these years because nothing out there is so much better as to justify the costs in replacing it. Think of it as owning a car that works well, is reliable, and is paid off already, is it worth it to replace it with something that's only marginally better but costs a lot more than your current car and/or is much more maintenance intensive, and is just all around more expensive to own?
 
Bryancd said:
Also when Rey is sneaking around, you hear two troopers discussing a new model of ship or something just like in the ANH Ben deactivating the tractor beam scene.
Click to expand...

See, those kinds of really subtle winks at the audience, I have a lot less of a problem with than stuff like "Another Death Star?!" That kind of thing is a "blink/cough and you'll miss it" detail. It's not too on-the-nose. It's not "I have a BAD FEELING ABOUT THIS WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE LOOK WHAT I JUST SAID."
 
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