Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

JD said:
Sigh. You "simply don't agree with (me) at all" - but, then you basically state the same thing I did by saying this guy had a chip on his shoulder. :confused You keep that up and "someone" might take you off the "blind faith SW list" and not speak to you again. :D
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There's a list? Could you send that to me?
 
I used to review films for TV. My reviews were written with the average moviegoer in mind. I could have written them to show off my knowledge of film history (which I have), and I could have delved into the pseudo-psychological bull crap some reviewers seem determined to inflict their readers with, but I didn't. I wanted to essentially say. "This film is good (or bad), to me, in the ways I stated without all the intellectual bragging and self-promotional back patting a lot of reviewers seem to need to do. Also, I tried (unsuccessfully sometimes, I admit), to keep any personal agendas out of the review. I also saw the film with an audience (If possible) to get the real reaction to the film, not the non-reaction from myself and 3 other reviewers in an empty theater! Although, that wasn't always possible. Now with all the internet know-it-alls, and self-styled movie experts spouting on almost every website, it is really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I see more and more "reviews" from people who have no idea what a review is supposed to be. It is supposed to be a guide to a person who might want to see the movie, not a flame job trying to keep people from seeing it. I have read a bunch of "reviews" on The Force Awakens, and a few are well done, thoughtful, and seem to be written by people who actually saw the film. I even read a lot junk from people who hadn't seen it yet, who were trashing it simply because they were so afraid it would be bad, that they just had to get their angst out on the web - in the form of a review!!
 
I enjoy snark when the target deserves it, which the Huff piece certainly did. I think the "chip" was appropriate in this case.
 
Not gonna get into it over the HuffPost article...

Solo4114 said:
I know it's hard to see, but if ALL you have is the movies, then the original films barely scratch the surface of providing background. The background they do provide is the most cursory background possible.

The thing is, the entire EU empire that spawned from these movies filled in a ton of those blanks. West End Games' stuff, the comic books, the novels, the merchandising, etc., it all created the external technical stuff we hardcore fans love to obsess over. But the film itself? JUST the film? There ain't much there. The ship is a Y-wing, not a Koensayr BTL-A4 (as distinguished from the BTL-B Clone Wars era, or the BTL-S3 two-man fighter-bomber, or the BTL-A4 "Longprobe" reconnaissance fighter). It isn't until you start seeing the publication of all this extra stuff that you learn the background.
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Actually, even "Y-Wing" came from behind-the-scenes stuff and the Kenner toy and MPC model kit. All we had in the actual film was "Rebel ships". :D

Treadwell said:
Random note: the EU (by WEG) classification of the Falcon being a YT-1300 freighter has now been canonized.
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To continue to be pedantic, the reference in the film is "Corellian YT series freighter". One has to go to the Cross Sections book for the rest, but yes. I'm loving how piece by piece so many elements of the EU are becoming canon...

--Jonah
 
Bryancd said:
There's a list? Could you send that to me?
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It was last seen in Joe McCarthy's jacket pocket. ;)

Sourdoh said:
I used to review films for TV. My reviews were written with the average moviegoer in mind. I could have written them to show off my knowledge of film history (which I have), and I could have delved into the pseudo-psychological bull crap some reviewers seem determined to inflict their readers with, but I didn't. I wanted to essentially say. "This film is good (or bad), to me, in the ways I stated without all the intellectual bragging and self-promotional back patting a lot of reviewers seem to need to do. Also, I tried (unsuccessfully sometimes, I admit), to keep any personal agendas out of the review. I also saw the film with an audience (If possible) to get the real reaction to the film, not the non-reaction from myself and 3 other reviewers in an empty theater! Although, that wasn't always possible. Now with all the internet know-it-alls, and self-styled movie experts spouting on almost every website, it is really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I see more and more "reviews" from people who have no idea what a review is supposed to be. It is supposed to be a guide to a person who might want to see the movie, not a flame job trying to keep people from seeing it. I have read a bunch of "reviews" on The Force Awakens, and a few are well done, thoughtful, and seem to be written by people who actually saw the film. I even read a lot junk from people who hadn't seen it yet, who were trashing it simply because they were so afraid it would be bad, that they just had to get their angst out on the web - in the form of a review!!
Click to expand...

Side note: I've seen this become more common in other areas as well, such as with restaurant reviews. There's a pretty well regarded restaurant-scene newsletter here in Philly, and they've had a guy writing "reviews" now for a few months who is just....awful. Like, he doesn't understand how to write reviews. They're more like blog posts about "So, this one time, I went to a restaurant..."

In contrast, there's an actual restaurant critic here in town (Craig LaBan) who writes for the Philadelphia Inquirer and actually knows how to do a review. I may not always agree with all of his points (e.g., he seems to LOATHE when a location's noise level goes above 75 decibels), but at least he's providing you with actual information and incisive criticism where applied.

Meanwhile, the other schmoe still has a job when I've seen Yelp reviews that are written more informatively.

Treadwell said:
I enjoy snark when the target deserves it, which the Huff piece certainly did. I think the "chip" was appropriate in this case.
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Right. To be clear, I think the snark was directed at two key factors:

1. The initially snarky, dismissive tone of the HuffPo piece, especially given how much of the points were actually explained and/or strongly implied in the film.

2. The underlying lack of integrity to the piece and HuffPo's posting of it.


I mean, people on this forum have posted similar lists of complaints about the film. I might disagree with them, but I probably wouldn't go full-snark on 'em because of it. But the HuffPo piece was a commercial piece, designed to lure traffic to the site, and which doesn't actually have a ton of substance to it. This is becoming more and more common online, too, with clickbait and listicles basically being churned out constantly. When they're entertaining, I have less issue with it, but I've seen better written complaints about the film here than I have on a professional site. I hold those sites to a higher standard, but they let me down when they post crap like that.
 
Solo4114 said:
Right. To be clear, I think the snark was directed at two key factors:

1. The initially snarky, dismissive tone of the HuffPo piece, especially given how much of the points were actually explained and/or strongly implied in the film.

2. The underlying lack of integrity to the piece and HuffPo's posting of it.


I mean, people on this forum have posted similar lists of complaints about the film. I might disagree with them, but I probably wouldn't go full-snark on 'em because of it. But the HuffPo piece was a commercial piece, designed to lure traffic to the site, and which doesn't actually have a ton of substance to it. This is becoming more and more common online, too, with clickbait and listicles basically being churned out constantly. When they're entertaining, I have less issue with it, but I've seen better written complaints about the film here than I have on a professional site. I hold those sites to a higher standard, but they let me down when they post crap like that.
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I missed the "snarky, dismissive tone" of the HP piece - glancing through it again, I still don't see it.

...and underlying lack of integrity? Oh, cue the melodrama... even more than the HP piece.

But, hey - we're all entitled to opinions. Unless you write about SW and it can be considered negative by someone. SW is a sacred cow once again - unless you're being critical of The Prequels or George Lucas, that's okay - don't you dare levy any sort of critical thinking at all against TFA. Don't you dare end an article with a statement like "Is there any other film franchise in the history of cinema that would be permitted, by its fans and by critics, to recycle so many plot points?"

Just after the author wrote his 40 plotholes piece, he followed up with this. Where he acknowledged some of his plotholes aren't and are... sadly, the author of the rebuttal didn't include that at all.

Just a week after writing the 40 plotholes article, the same guy wrote '10 Reasons Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Is the Best 'Star Wars' Film Ever Made.' Both the 40 plotholes and the 10 Reasons pieces appeared under HP BLOG area - not as news or some journalistic expose... I'm also guessing there are thousands of articles on HP.com - so was any of this written as clickbait? I doubt anymore than HP wants traffic. (Ironically, the author of the rebuttal rant just might be looking for attention and be more clickbait than the HP posts).

The guy wrote an article about Star Wars, he likes the film and writes about some nitpicks and gets a few people's feathers all ruffled. It's a laughable puff piece article that was meant to have some fun with the new film. I see a huge amount of Star Wars articles come through my feeds all the time... it's crazy that this one comes under such scrutiny. It's also not like the guy is just a hack looking for a click....

FWIW, here's something of a response from the HP post (which seems to be more about clickbait).
 
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So how did Kylo know about the handoff of the Luke map on Jakku to show up at just the right time on the right planet?
 
The HP article and others expressing similar complaints just seem lost in the weeds to me. As I mentioned before, my issues with the film centered around the pacing (too fast), the Rathtar sequence (too silly), the criminal underused Captain Phasma (she should have fought Finn), and the story could have used a bit more context in regards to the Republic and Resistance relationship. But they amount to quibbles and at the end of the day I had FUN seeing this movie, and that's where the rubber hits the road. What I have found most frustrating are some of the comments here and elsewhere of people going out of their way to seriously discredit the film. It's their arguments that come across as baseless. Especially some of the comments in the "Disappointed" thread, some of those "commentators" were NEVER going to support this film because they hate JJ or have not liked any SW since 1980. They never gave the movie a chance, they went in with their arms crossed and ready to hate.
 
Just to go on a little more about the author (not the article or the rebuttal) that wrote the 40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' - as I mentioned in the post above, a week after writing the 40 plotholes article, the same guy wrote '10 Reasons Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Is the Best 'Star Wars' Film Ever Made.'

His opening paragraphs just hit me and sticks with me, he completely nailed how I feel about TFA.

"I now find myself, far too often, feeling strongly about both sides of a divisive issue. This may not be a cure for contemporary polarization, but it does mean that I'm more inclined than many to, having just made the case against J.J. Abrams' The Force Awakens, now with equal fervor and sincerity make the case that in fact the film has no plot holes at all and is every bit as good as -- indeed, even better than -- people have been saying."

and...


"The division yet again confirmed, as if any confirmation were needed, that we live in artificially polarized times. Apparently, The Force Awakens can only be regarded as a great or appalling film, and nothing else."

I love TFA. I hate the bullheadedness it seems to have caused in many of us that refuse to acknowledge or see its flaws. I'm sure some look at those that mention something critical as slamming the movie and feel that there's a similar bullheadedness to that.

Personally, I wish there could be more real discussion about the film and its good and its bad - but, that doesn't really seem possible. (I'd love to hear theories about those plotholes and the like).

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Dr Talyn said:
So how did Kylo know about the handoff of the Luke map on Jakku to show up at just the right time on the right planet?
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The same way Vader knew Leia had the plans to the first Death Star? :D
 
JD said:
Just to go on a little more about the author (not the article or the rebuttal) that wrote the 40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' - as I mentioned in the post above, a week after writing the 40 plotholes article, the same guy wrote '10 Reasons Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Is the Best 'Star Wars' Film Ever Made.'

His opening paragraphs just hit me and sticks with me, he completely nailed how I feel about TFA.

"I now find myself, far too often, feeling strongly about both sides of a divisive issue. This may not be a cure for contemporary polarization, but it does mean that I'm more inclined than many to, having just made the case against J.J. Abrams' The Force Awakens, now with equal fervor and sincerity make the case that in fact the film has no plot holes at all and is every bit as good as -- indeed, even better than -- people have been saying."

and...


"The division yet again confirmed, as if any confirmation were needed, that we live in artificially polarized times. Apparently, The Force Awakens can only be regarded as a great or appalling film, and nothing else."

I love TFA. I hate the bullheadedness it seems to have caused in many of us that refuse to acknowledge or see its flaws. I'm sure some look at those that mention something critical as slamming the movie and feel that there's a similar bullheadedness to that.

Personally, I wish there could be more real discussion about the film and its good and its bad - but, that doesn't really seem possible. (I'd love to hear theories about those plotholes and the like).

- - - Updated - - -


The same way Vader knew Leia had the plans to the first Death Star? :D
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The reason I know I don't want to discuss the flaws (and yes, it has them) is because I'm seriously tired of complaining about SW movies on the internet. I'm really over it. TFA was a lot of fun and made me feel good and rekindled my love of SW. I don't want to pick away at that good feeling like a scab until I'm as bitter and pissy about TFA as I am about the prequels. I just want to enjoy it. My kids aren't perfect, but I don't want to gab about their flaws all the time either. I'd rather focus on the positive.
 
Same as me,....I'm just VERY relieved that it turned out great,...I really did have worries that they couldn't get that vibe back & I'm kinda saddened that theres people not feeling what I'm feeling.....& the things they are not happy about are minuscule compared to the huge problems with the previous few films.

The fact that the new owners have to repair the credibility of the franchise,....taking a step back....to make sure everybody's on board & comfortable...before they start off in confidence on a new journey.....& some people cant see what is going on

J
 
cayman shen said:
The reason I know I don't want to discuss the flaws (and yes, it has them) is because I'm seriously tired of complaining about SW movies on the internet. I'm really over it. TFA was a lot of fun and made me feel good and rekindled my love of SW. I don't want to pick away at that good feeling like a scab until I'm as bitter and pissy about TFA as I am about the prequels. I just want to enjoy it. My kids aren't perfect, but I don't want to gab about their flaws all the time either. I'd rather focus on the positive.
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Spot on, my man. And I still love the PT warts and all.
 
Seen it twice now, loved it even more the second time. Especially after reading tons of things I didn't catch the first time around, like the Yoda and Obi Wan voices in the flashback and such. Plus 3D just doesn't yield the results it should with my eyes I think, it's just darker and has a bit more depth, that's all. So 2D this time around. If only there was an Imax where I usually go... My only complain is that it sometimes lack a little bit of breathing room here and there. Could have been fine without the Rathar things on Han's freighter and a more calm (and shorter ?) scene instead.
None of my friends seem to think Han and Leia know more than they let us believe about Rey though, whereas I'm convinced they know something we don't. Well knew in Han's case.
 
Jaitea said:
The fact that the new owners have to repair the credibility of the franchise,....taking a step back....to make sure everybody's on board & comfortable...before they start off in confidence on a new journey.....& some people cant see what is going on

J
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Right, even as a fan of the PT I recognize they have been very polarizing for the franchise fandom and those issue's fans have with them are somewhat challenging to dismiss, and I say that despite the fact that I am the honorary member of @JD ignore list because I apparently lack critical thinking. :) Although I did call this to be hit ages ago, but what do I know?

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teragon said:
Seen it twice now, loved it even more the second time. Especially after reading tons of things I didn't catch the first time around, like the Yoda and Obi Wan voices in the flashback and such. Plus 3D just doesn't yield the results it should with my eyes I think, it's just darker and has a bit more depth, that's all. So 2D this time around. If only there was an Imax where I usually go... My only complain is that it sometimes lack a little bit of breathing room here and there. Could have been fine without the Rathar things on Han's freighter and a more calm (and shorter ?) scene instead.
None of my friends seem to think Han and Leia know more than they let us believe about Rey though, whereas I'm convinced they know something we don't. Well knew in Han's case.
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The Rathtar sequence did provide some great moments for Han and Chewie and a bit of exposition as to what they had been up to, so I get why it was in there, i just wasn't a fan of the actual creatures.
 
Bryancd said:
The Rathtar sequence did provide some great moments for Han and Chewie and a bit of exposition as to what they had been up to, so I get why it was in there, i just wasn't a fan of the actual creatures.
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Plus it was a nice little homage to Harrison Ford's OTHER most iconic role, what with him running along a corridor with a giant ball bearing down on him...
 
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Bryancd said:
Right, even as a fan of the PT I recognize they have been very polarizing for the franchise fandom and those issue's fans have with them are somewhat challenging to dismiss, and I say that despite the fact that I am the honorary member of @JD ignore list because I apparently lack critical thinking. :) Although I did call this to be hit ages ago, but what do I know?

The Rathtar sequence did provide some great moments for Han and Chewie and a bit of exposition as to what they had been up to, so I get why it was in there, i just wasn't a fan of the actual creatures.
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I dont hate the PT,....I'm just disappointed and they make me cringe,...I can still watch them though & I enjoy scenes in all three of them

The Rathtars scene through me on the first viewing,...but I enjoyed it in the next viewing,...it's a great comic monster scene,....the creatures (although CG) were 100% Star Wars,....mobile Sarlacs

J
 
Bryancd said:
I say that despite the fact that I am the honorary member of @JD ignore list because I apparently lack critical thinking. :) Although I did call this to be hit ages ago, but what do I know?
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Oh, Bryan your infatuation with me knows no ends. I swear there are days when I think you're hiding behind the trees in the park across from me.

At least the PMs have stopped.
 
cayman shen said:
The reason I know I don't want to discuss the flaws (and yes, it has them) is because I'm seriously tired of complaining about SW movies on the internet. I'm really over it. TFA was a lot of fun and made me feel good and rekindled my love of SW. I don't want to pick away at that good feeling like a scab until I'm as bitter and pissy about TFA as I am about the prequels. I just want to enjoy it. My kids aren't perfect, but I don't want to gab about their flaws all the time either. I'd rather focus on the positive.
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I don't think it's discussing flaws in a bad way. Plot holes aren't necessary flaws - maybe there's potential backstory there or something going on between the scenes - or sometimes you just miss something.

Case in point: Rey and the Falcon. We know she has some sort of relationship with Unkarr Plutt based on the vision she had... maybe she had been working on it for him?
 
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