Star Trek: Discovery (2017)

How are you watching Star Trek: Discovery?

  • Signed up for CBS All Access before watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Signed up for CBS All Access after watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Not signing up, but will watch if it's available for free

    Votes: 82 57.3%
  • On Netflix (Non-US viewer)

    Votes: 35 24.5%

  • Total voters
    143
So the captain of Chinese ancestry has a ship with a Chinese name. A little trite, wouldn't you say? They're trying too hard.


It does seem heavy handed. But so much of what Hollywood comes up with these days just seems like that. Throughout the years, Star Trek has been effortlessly diverse, without calling attention to it in such a heavy handed way. It just was.

Her first in command might be commander won tons. And the mess hall will serve dumplings daily. The crew will also be forced to celebrate Chinese New year as well.
 
I just think some folks are mad it's not a white American captaining the USS Cheeseburger.
Not at all. I'm all for her being the star of the show.

(Hell, I would love to see a John Cho commanded excelsior series)

But I like my star trek to be post-racial. I want to see her in command of an eclectic crew. And I have the feeling that her ship has an Asian crew (that's what I heard when this casting decision was first made)

And an all Asian crew on an earth ship just doesn't make sense in the Roddenberry-verse

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Not at all. I'm all for her being the star of the show.

(Hell, I would love to see a John Cho commanded excelsior series)

But I like my star trek to be post-racial. I want to see her in command of an eclectic crew. And I have the feeling that her ship has an Asian crew (that's what I heard when this casting decision was first made)

And an all Asian crew on an earth ship just doesn't make sense in the Roddenberry-verse

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When i see some quoted texts it's like, wow. ;/...


But that aside, pretty much what you said.

I think a chinese captain is awesome. But you don't promote it saying 'Hey, star trek has it's first chinese captain.' Isnt' it better to let folks discover it naturally and get to know them as a person, not because of their race or gender?

I can even buy that the ship has a chinese name. MAYBE she requested it. Although one would think that in the world of star trek, we've gone beyond country sentimentality . Probably not the best way i could phrase it, but one would think you don't choose a ship just because it has a name of your favorite pet from childhood.. you want it for other reasons.


But having a chinese captain with an ENTIRE crew of chinese staffing it?

not only is that something we haven't seen before in a trek series...but it just seems to go against what star trek stands for. everyone of every race and creed working together for a better future. it would be like having an entire ship of women, or an entire ship of just men. doesn't that just seem weird to anyone else?

so, yeah, if true, that's why we think it's pandering.
 
We'll have to see how it all plays out in the end. They've already cast an actress who I'll watch in anything and the ship itself might actually look awesome. That stuff I'm cool with. And believe it or not, Star Trek can actually take this pandering concept to the next level. Imagine if you will that this ship and Michelle Yeoh's character and crew are actually aliens from another planet. A planet who's only culture is essentially modern day China and everyone onboard the Discovery can't help but be awe struck regarding how talented and gifted these aliens are. That would be the worst case scenario. Sound too far-fetched? Well, Star Trek actually did something like this during TOS era. But instead of pandering to China, it pandered to the US. I give you "The Omega Glory".

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/lordJeyl/omegod_zps19d2e6fb.jpg

In short, the Enterprise encounters a group of aliens called the Yang (Who fight the Kohm. Yankees/Communists. Very subtle) who have not only developed the english language, but also the Constitution of the United States complete with an American flag. Now I know what you're thinking. There must have been some outside influence or some strange phenomenon that caused this alien culture to mimic ours. Nope. Not only does this episode establish that this planet has had no influence from Earth, but the Yangs actually developed all of these American specific elements CENTURIES BEFORE EARTH DID! Yes. Gene Roddenberry wrote an episode with a message saying that America is so freaking awesome that every iconic detail about it is universally instinctive from species to species across the univese. Now THAT is what I call pandering taken to ridiculous lengths. What makes this even more goofy is that not only did Gene Roddenberry write this episode as a draft for a second pilot to the series, he submitted the script for Emmy consideration.



Unless you're "The Sisko".
Sisko: Special dispensation from the Chief of Starfleet Operations to change the name from Sao Paulo to Defiant.​

Big difference would be they weren't making trek in the 60's with an eye on getting into any other countries. The goal was be successful on CBS and that was pretty much it.

It also doesn't help that studious have float out admitted that they're going to start tailoring things for the chinese audience due to it's size. It's why the last transformers was shot at least in part, in china for example. They've admitted it, so you can't quite fault people for then seeing it.
 
Big difference would be they weren't making trek in the 60's with an eye on getting into any other countries. The goal was be successful on CBS and that was pretty much it.

It also doesn't help that studious have float out admitted that they're going to start tailoring things for the chinese audience due to it's size. It's why the last transformers was shot at least in part, in china for example. They've admitted it, so you can't quite fault people for then seeing it.

And why shredder was going to be white, and all japanese elements erased from a franchise based on japanese elements. .

and why so many studios have chinese production companies funding them, complete with logo in front of movie.

and movies suffering creatively to bend to communist china's rules....

yeah. there are reasons why :).
 
It also doesn't help that studious have float out admitted that they're going to start tailoring things for the chinese audience due to it's size. It's why the last transformers was shot at least in part, in china for example. They've admitted it, so you can't quite fault people for then seeing it.

I think Honest Trailers put it best. (@3:09)


Sometimes pandering doesn't come in forms of setting your film in China or incorporating Chinese elements. Sometimes it can result in the complete alteration of a product that the Chinese just might not agree with. It's not pretty, and it's unfortunate that content must be dictated by it. I just cannot see Star Trek becoming a more progressive series it should have been a long time ago if this will be the direction it's going to take.
 
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Same with the re-release of Terminator 2 in 3D, the film will be edited and changed slightly for the Chinese market.

How do I personally feel about it? I just find it weird. But I am okay with it, AS LONG AS the original version will also be released(!)
We do not need another Star Wars special edition on our hands.
 
The other thing that I think a lot of people here are over looking in as far as Chinese market movies is that, more often not, it's not changing of cultural elements, altering the story to meet Chinese censorship but the simplification or dumbing down of the plot and focusing on the action. That's why the Transformers movies have such a crappy overall plot with lots of action and explosions, those require no translation at all and are universally understandable. This means that you don't have to worry about whether or not the dialogue or elements of the story translate into another language or culture when you have plenty action and explosions to keep people entertained.
 
The goal was be successful on CBS and that was pretty much it.

Little nit. It was NBC. Gene had pitched Star Trek to CBS first, yes, but they turned him down... and then hired Irwin Allen to make Lost in Space, based on what they thought Roddenberry had been pitching. Given they do now own Star Trek, you can bet they've had a long time to regret their original call.

--Jonah
 
Not quite. During the concept art phase, once Jeffries was getting in a direction he liked, he wanted to deco the ship designs with registry numbers for a bit of verisimilitude. As a civilian pilot, he knew the Civial Aviation code for the United States at the time was NC. He might have been peripherally aware that the Soviet Union's CA code at the time was CC, but it wasn't a conscious thing on his part. He took America's NC and just doubled the second letter arbitrarily to give it a slight remove from reality. For the numbers, he eliminated any that would be unclear on 1963 television sets and, out of what was left, (in his words) "1701 was as good as anything". So he put it on his later concept paintings, Gene liked it, and that was that.

He didn't start thinking about what the prefix and number might mean until after that. And he didn't have someone point out the Soviet CA code connection until after the series had been cancelled and was in reruns. He liked the symbolism, however inadvertent at the time, of the big 20th century adversaries coming together in peaceful exploration in the 23rd.

JSYK :)

--Jonah


Interesting, the interview I read he told it as if it was intentionally done at the time, but he also was a bit unreliable at times in how he chose to remember things. Do you have the source for this info handy?
 
The other thing that I think a lot of people here are over looking in as far as Chinese market movies is that, more often not, it's not changing of cultural elements, altering the story to meet Chinese censorship but the simplification or dumbing down of the plot and focusing on the action. That's why the Transformers movies have such a crappy overall plot with lots of action and explosions, those require no translation at all and are universally understandable. This means that you don't have to worry about whether or not the dialogue or elements of the story translate into another language or culture when you have plenty action and explosions to keep people entertained.
Bingo. It's not the diversity or inclusion that people object to. It's that they are treating race like product placement in a big dumb commercial.

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Bingo. It's not the diversity or inclusion that people object to. It's that they are treating race like product placement in a big dumb commercial.

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Well said.

Trek diversity has always been incidental, not hey look at us!!!!
That is why it worked so well, there it is humanity amongst the stars,
we are not looking at ourselves by race anymore, that is long in the past.
 
>>Discovery was and is to be full of diversity, complete with a female lead and a gay character, respecting Roddenberry’s vision and legacy>>>>

right there on how this site triumphs these two things like they are brand new and never done before in the history of tv, just leaves a sour taste in my mouth for some reason. it feels like they are demeaning the character just by saying 'she's female!' or, 'they are gay!' and that's all that should matter, yay diversity!

when people tire of agenda pushing these days, that's not a great way to push the first new star trek show since voyager. enterprise kind of doesn't even count cause it's not quite in the same universe.
 
Interesting, the interview I read he told it as if it was intentionally done at the time, but he also was a bit unreliable at times in how he chose to remember things. Do you have the source for this info handy?

He didn't actually start getting interviewed, really, until about the 25th anniversary stuff. He kept everything, though. The best book to get for all manner of Jeffries goodness is the Star Trek Sketchbook, by Herb Solow (a name anyone who watched TOS should be familiar with) and his daughter. A lot of people misunderstand what he said, though. Or latch onto one thing while forgetting another. In that very book, right at the beginning of the first chapter, there's a facing page of an Enterprise sketch, the caption for which says:
The final sketch, from which the model for the show was made, can be called the "birth" of the Enterprise. It was this drawing that Desilu Studio Vice President and Executive in Charge of the entire production of Star Trek, Herb Solow, approved for production, giving the final go-ahead to the producer and the creative team.
...Except it's dated "6-77" and is obviously a preliminary sketch of the Phase II Enterprise. It is also labelled "1701A", which Jeffries had jotted down during the actual original design process as indicating the "1st moderize [sic] or modification". I.e., the refit that would begin Phase II/TMP. The drawing that should have been on that page isn't in the book at all. It's hinted at on page 68. The top drawing is annotated "paint -- white on black matte board + color". Which he did, placed it in a prominent place amongst other drawings, and sure enough Herb and Gene picked it as the direction the ship should go. That actual drawing/painting is on page 9 of The Art of Star Trek:

enterprise-matt-jefferies.jpg


That's the one that should be on that opening page of the Star Trek Sketchbook. None of the reference books are proof from errors. Take what's presented with some skepticism and compare it against other sources -- or even other parts of the same source -- and see what holds up and what doesn't. The interview with Matt in that book jibes with what can be gleaned from his own drawings. Shortly after that painting is when he came up with the registry and meaning of the number. I need to dig through all my reference material to find the other interviews where he mentions things like what the NCC means and other ship types, as well as the whole Main Engineering thing (there's a lot). I'll take Jeffries' own cross section of the Enterprise over FJ's, much as I love the guy. And I keep hoping someone will make a model of Jeffries' Phase II shuttlecraft redesign:

phaseIIshuttle.jpg


It'd make a lovely predecessor to Voyager's aeroshuttle...

--Jonah
 

So Michele Yeoh isn't going to the captain of a Chinese starship after all? And what kind of name is Georgiu? That doesn't even sound remotely Chinese to me, is this a case with the character name being set before casting even began or is the showrunner having no idea of what a real Chinese name sounds like? I hope that it's the former, then it can (hopefully) put to rest all of the cries of pandering to the Chinese market and all of that. If it's the latter, they need to do a better job, granted that Sulu isn't Japanese (though it could be a bastardization of Suru), at least it sounds Japanese, unlike Georgiu.
 
That far in the future, with the continued mixing of cultures it makes sense to me that first and last names come from different cultures.
 

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