Boba Fetts return (maybe?)

I guess the question on the shirt is where royalties do actually fall... With it being Star Wars, I have no idea where the lines of IP are likely to be crossed.

From a fan POV, I think it's worth checking out - I've designed T-shirts before... I could come up with a few sketches.

If Fett reappears in the sequel trilogy it just means my faith in Kathleen Kennedy (and Disney) is lost and the whoring of Star Wars will have just increased a hundredfold.

At this point, I hope it's just a fluke.

JD said:

If Fett reappears in the sequel trilogy it just means my faith in Kathleen Kennedy (and Disney) is lost and the whoring of Star Wars will have just increased a hundredfold.

At this point, I hope it's just a fluke.

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Why? And the Battle of Jakku would have likely been a few decades before Episode 7.

Bryancd said:

Why? And the Battle of Jakku would have likely been a few decades before Episode 7.

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Because Fett died in Return of the Jedi.

I know about EU and him escaping (and I remember enjoying that comic)... but, that's the EU and in a way fan fiction - or like the old Marvel 'What if' stories. A lot of the EU - books, comics and what have you (I'll even say The Clone Wars and Rebels series) is great because (practically) none of it reaches the big screen and can be wiped out of canon on whim (just like what just happened). I don't have a problem with that, the EU stuff serves a purpose (and you can generally ignore it as it really doesn't effect anything).

But, Fett - just like Maul are effectively dead to me. These were minor characters that served their purpose in their respective movie(s). I don't like that Maul reappeared in the animated series (for lack of a better term? stupid), it's unfortunate that the creators of those series have to resort to such silly tactics to attract viewers...

I understand we'll probably get a Boba Fett standalone movie set somewhere prior to RotJ - he's a popular character; although, I'll never understand why.

But, I'll repeat it - as a diehard fan who liked the PT, saw the OT first run in the theater (not that this makes me any bigger or better a fan than anyone): Boba Fett died in RotJ and it should stay that way.

JD said:

Because Fett died in Return of the Jedi.

I know about EU and him escaping (and I remember enjoying that comic)... but, that's the EU and in a way fan fiction - or like the old Marvel 'What if' stories. A lot of the EU - books, comics and what have you (I'll even say The Clone Wars and Rebels series) is great because (practically) none of it reaches the big screen and can be wiped out of canon on whim (just like what just happened). I don't have a problem with that, the EU stuff serves a purpose (and you can generally ignore it as it really doesn't effect anything).

But, Fett - just like Maul are effectively dead to me. These were minor characters that served their purpose in their respective movie(s). I don't like that Maul reappeared in the animated series (for lack of a better term? stupid), it's unfortunate that the creators of those series have to resort to such silly tactics to attract viewers...

I understand we'll probably get a Boba Fett standalone movie set somewhere prior to RotJ - he's a popular character; although, I'll never understand why.

But, I'll repeat it - as a diehard fan who liked the PT, saw the OT first run in the theater (not that this makes me any bigger or better a fan than anyone): Boba Fett died in RotJ and it should stay that way.

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But George himself has been quoted by multiple people as saying Fett survives. And Stormtroopers still aren't clones. They brought Maul back and he was cut in two, so Fett is easy. Sure from a narrative purpose when those films were made the implication was that they were killed, but brining Maul back was very successful, I see no reason why the can't do the same for Fett. And it's pretty clear thats what they are doing, so we should alkali peace with it and move on.; And come on JD, the "whoring of STAR WARS", I know you know better then to say that.

Bryancd said:

But George himself has been quoted by multiple people as saying Fett survives. And Stormtroopers still aren't clones. They brought Maul back and he was cut in two, so Fett is easy. Sure from a narrative purpose when those films were made the implication was that they were killed, but brining Maul back was very successful, I see no reason why the can't do the same for Fett. And it's pretty clear thats what they are doing, so we should alkali peace with it and move on.; And come on JD, the "whoring of STAR WARS", I know you know better then to say that.

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Yes, I understand that Jonathon Rinzler reported that Lucas said Fett survives -- and I'm also somewhat sure the guy that also gave us midichlorians wasn't planning on putting him his Star Wars sequels... but, ya never know (I didn't expect him in the prequels -- and yes, I thought that was pandering the audience as well).

It's pretty clear why Maul was brought back - to bring viewers in. But, as I said... the Clone Wars canon isn't quite movie canon (because what's not seen on the big screen can easily be fixed). It's a lot like why we (probably) won't see Agent Coulson on the big screen anytime soon.

Speaking of Coulson, here's a quote from Joss Whedon that should apply to Fett and Maul in much the same way:

“As far as I’m concerned, in this movie, Coulson’s dead. If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson’s alive, it’s like putting ****ing John Gielgud in the sequel to ‘Arthur.’ It mattered that he’s gone. It’s a different world now. And you have to run with that.”

I know you have lots of faith in Disney and Star Wars. I wish I did... Disney's in this to make money, they make money not necessarily by being artists but by selling product. Who buys this product? Fans... so you give the fans what they want.

So yes, I am worried about the whoring of Star Wars - it's not a new feeling, I've been worried about this almost since the Disney announcement. A sequel trilogy - I get that and announcing (or inferring) that they were using George's ideas was assuring - I still think Star Wars needs his involvement. Losing Lucas' direct influence, adding new Anthology movies... well these are things that concern me about going above and beyond the capitalizing on this brand -- bringing Fett back? Well, that's another part of this equation that I really hope doesn't add up to a huge sell out.

Let me repeat that Whedon quote: “As far as I’m concerned, in this movie, Coulson’s dead. If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson’s alive, it’s like putting ****ing John Gielgud in the sequel to ‘Arthur.’ It mattered that he’s gone. It’s a different world now. And you have to run with that.” Maybe Joss would've been a better choice than JJ?

...oh, and making Stormtroopers not clones? That's not whoring the brand, that's just lazy.

Relying on the Empire to be the bad guys again (even if it's new name)? That's might be both.

(But, I'm trying hard to reserve judgment until we see final product).

Marvel isn't Star Wars, though, and the Clone Wars holds the same distinction in canon as the films.

Bryancd said:

Marvel isn't Star Wars, though, and the Clone Wars holds the same distinction in canon as the films.

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Clone Wars hold distinction as canon until they decide it doesn't... and I still say movie and canon and non-movie canon are and should be two very distinct things; hence, the Joss quote - he was a creator of the Agents of SHIELD series that brought Coulson back and with that quote he shows an understanding of how things work. Yes, you can have something happen on TV (or a book or some other expanded source) and it not have it truly be a part of the overall story... the second something like that shows up on the big screen, it cheapens the story and the characters.

...and I think you know how I feel his quote (should) applies to Star Wars.

I'd even argue that that the returning Empire (under whatever name) is cheapening Star Wars. But, we'll see how that plays out.

JD said:

Clone Wars hold distinction as canon until they decide it doesn't... and I still say movie and canon and non-movie canon are and should be two very distinct thing.

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But that's your head canon vs. the reality of what STAR WARS canon is as of today. They are intentionally NOT making distinction of canon between films, TV, books, comics, or games. That's over and I think it's important that we as fans come to grips with that and move forward. Joss can have his on head canon but Marvel canon saw it differently. Because Star Wars is being led by a story group that have control, you are not going to have a unified experience with the entire story that won't be subject to the whims of individual directors or authors.

JD said:

...oh, and making Stormtroopers not clones? That's not whoring the brand, that's just lazy.

Relying on the Empire to be the bad guys again (even if it's new name)? That's might be both.

(But, I'm trying hard to reserve judgment until we see final product).

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What's wrong with Stormtroopers not being clones? It was never said one way or another whether they were or not with most fans leaning towards them not being clones. With all of Lucas' tinkering with the OT over the years he easily could have made it readily apparent that they were clones by dubbing over their voices like he did with Boba Fett but he didn't.

In regards to relying on the Empire being the bad guy again, what's so wrong with that? I've always felt that it makes perfect sense for the Empire to still be around and the Battle of Endor did not mark the end of the Empire, not by a long shot. The beginning of the end, maybe, but not their end, the Empire was just too damned large for it to fall overnight just because one fleet lost one battle and because the Emperor died. I never once got the impression that the Empire was losing constantly to the Rebellion and that Endor and the loss of the Emperor represented some sort of final blow. I won't deny that losing (yet another) Death Star along with the Emperor would have been a serious blow to the Empire but the Empire almost certainly still had the bulk of their fleet still intact all across the galaxy and at least one enterprising admiral would have rallied their forces to try to take charge of the remaining Imperial forces.

Bryancd said:

But that's your head canon vs. the reality of what STAR WARS canon is as of today. They are intentionally NOT making distinction of canon between films, TV, books, comics, or games. That's over and I think it's important that we as fans come to grips with that and move forward. Joss can have his on head canon but Marvel canon saw it differently. Because Star Wars is being led by a story group that have control, you are not going to have a unified experience with the entire story that won't be subject to the whims of individual directors or authors.

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C'mon Bryan... but your reckoning the Ewok Adventure and Holiday Special are canon.

JD said:

C'mon Bryan... but your reckoning the Ewok Adventure and Holiday Special are canon.

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No, I'm basing canon explicitly on what the story group at LucasFilm has said IS canon and those were not included, although that would be funny! I'm very pragmatic about things like this. There is how people think things should be, there is what they wish things would be, then there is reality. If we don't accept reality, we have the kind of cognitive dissonance that results in pedantic debates that are ultimately meaningless. If the story group decides Fett lived beyond ROTJ, then that's it, that's reality.

@JD, Lucasfilm have said the six movies (at least until December) and the Clone Wars series. Of the moving-picture media, that's it. Until and unless they mention it specifically, the Holiday Special, Ewok TV movies, Clone Wars microseries, and the Ewoks and Droids cartoons are Legends, at best.

Regarding Boba Fett, two things. One, between the sarlacc's apparently very weak stomach acid and Fett's outfit being described in every source, from his creators' notes to the last bit of EU fiction before the Big Reboot, as an armored spacesuit, I have no doubt he'd a) survive and b) have time to figure a way out. Two, I've had it in my head for a while now that the Boba Fett we saw in Empire was the real one, and the one we see in the ANH SE and ROTJ is an imposter Jabba keeps on payroll. My headcanon way of accounting for the costume discrepancies -- mainly the helmets that are supposed to be the same helmet, but the makrings and weathering are different on comparison. By either of those, I lay odds far more heavily toward him surviving than not, regardless of whether the guy who took that header into the pit was really Boba.

On pandering... Even with as much time as has passed -- real-world or in-universe -- some bridging between ROTJ and TFA has to take place. I'm one of those who feels at least 90% of what we've seen in the teasers takes place within the first act of the film. All setup, no twist or resolution revealed as yet. Establishing what's happened in-universe over the last three decades is something the filmmakers have to at least touch on, even if they leave the details to ancillary materials. I do not expect the OT heroes to have as much presence in Episodes VIII or IX as they will in this one, for necessary reasons. None of this is pandering. It's just storytelling mechanics. Acknowledging, in an effective, in-universe way, that it's been a while, is responsible writing.

My point is: If it's done well, regardless of what it is, how is the larger story harmed? Where if it's done badly, the reverse is true. For all the good elements in the PT, George put the camera on things that should have happened off-screen, and ignored things that needed showing. Not to mention continuity issues, missed opportunities, and poor story choices (i.e., clone Boba Fett, Savage Opress, and things of that ilk). If I'm wrong, come December you have my permission to tell me you told me so about TFA, and perhaps by then we'll have had more hints one way or another on what might have become of Boba.

--Jonah

Riceball said:

What's wrong with Stormtroopers not being clones? It was never said one way or another whether they were or not with most fans leaning towards them not being clones. With all of Lucas' tinkering with the OT over the years he easily could have made it readily apparent that they were clones by dubbing over their voices like he did with Boba Fett but he didn't.

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Well I'm going to say it again, but people cite Lucas when it suits their personal beliefs. I think you should either take his word as creator of it or not at all. Anyway Lucas said that at the time of the OT some Stormtroopers are clones with the bulk of them being conscripts or recruits. They aren't all Jango clones anymore though, they have other sources. I don't know why people have a fit if some Stormtroopers are clones. It doesn't hurt your viewing experience at all.

I'm also going to say again that a lot of the people who didn't like the old EU and are praising the new EU to be the greatest thing ever are going to eat those words when every crappy movie, game, book, etc. is now real canon. Not EU canon, real canon. I liked only a few book series (X-Wing, Republic Commando, and Darth Bane) so I could care less about the rest, but at least with that EU Lucasfilm could officially ignore things they didn't like. Imagine if you did that originally and now every Kevin J. Anderson SW novel (so bad he only wrote four) and every Crystal Star (pretty much recognized as THE worst SW novel ever written) would be canon. That's where we're going to be in a year or two.

Star Wars is supposed to be mythology set in space rather than pure sci-fi. People die and stay dead. No time travel. Not too much focus on ethical questions about the line between man & machine. (IMO Anakin's transformation was more of a good/evil issue.) They had a clone army in the PT but that wasn't directly affecting the main characters in terms of dramatic character stuff.

If somebody like Fett comes back from the "dead" then they should try to put a mythological slant on it.



The heavy armor & jetpack really do lend it some plausibility so I could live with it. When I first saw Fett go into the pit in ROTJ, I was half expecting him to jet-blast back out right away.




The Dread Pirate Roberts thing makes me think of different men (different characters, different strengths & weaknesses, etc) playing the Fett role. It would seem strange to do that with the most cloned man in the entire galaxy. Why aren't they just slapping another clone in some fresh Mando armor each time Fett "dies"?

But the clone supply would remove anything interesting about the DPR idea. Now Fett would be rendered little more than a living droid for story purposes. Totally disposable & replaceable.

@Bryancd Again, it's canon until they decide it isn't canon anymore - there's nothing to say they won't decide to "reboot" it all again. Especially, if someone comes up with an better idea (for a film) later that may contradict something previously canon (in a book or video game). There's no doubt in my mind that until something is on screen that it will truly be canon - therefore, effectively you will have two different types of canon - all the new EU stuff will be subject to change when/if LFL decides it needs to be changed. There will always be "the movies" and "everything else" - that's simple reality.

...which is akin to the Whedon quote. Whedon helped create Agents of SHIELD - but he's smart enough to know there is a line between the movies and EU-esque type stuff.

@Riceball - I've said it before and I don't know if this is place to make that argument again. Simply, having an Empire cheapens the ending of the OT. We can debate for forever and a day about remnants of the Empire and that the death of their two leaders and destruction of two of their command ships (and many others) didn't mean the actual end of the Empire. But, this is movieland - where we saw the victory celebrations throughout the SW galaxy (including the capitol). As far as the general public was concerned... the Empire died with Vader and Palpatine and the destruction of the Death Star II and Executor. Again, I know life may not always be that simple and there would be resistance... and cleaning that up is a great place for the EU.

Again, simply: RotJ was the logical end for the Empire - it's very reasonable everyone who watched RotJ believes that and that's not an irrational belief at all. Now, without seeing the movie (and I am hopeful for real, rational explanations), it really seems that we're seeing Stormtroopers, TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers (although nice, new and shiny - which again seems to defy logic) because it's familiar and an easy sell - or lazy.

As far as STs not being clones... well, that horse has been beat to death and I don't feel its a road worth going down again. Check the other threads for that


@Inquisitor Peregrinus - most of what you're talking about has now been deleted by LFL - it's all old canon and we just don't know. The real Fett in ESB and fake Fett is just silly... sorry .

But, you're absolutely right with your last paragraph - it all comes down to be it doing well done. While part of me might always hope we got something different, if it's amazing (and the trailers have looked nothing short of amazing) - that's all that will matter. People (me included... most likely) won't care about certain things like what I will always feel is pandering and laziness.

I don't think my line of thinking is all that out of line - I think a lot of folks are giving JJ and the new LFL carte blanche because they harbor some ill will at Uncle George for the prequels - and everything we've seen so far has had sense of OT familiarity to it. I think JJ's made some great, even amazing films (and we share a birthday, although he's a few years older)... I liked his take on Star Trek, but not for a second am I fooled that his take on Star Trek isn't a whole lot like what Star Trek was sure.


Again, I can't say enough how excited I am for the new SW in December. The trailer looked amazing... and I've probably watched it a hundred times. I'd love to be able to turn a blind eye and ignore some of these things that concern me.

(Thankfully, I work tomorrow so I won't have the ability to post at length... maybe the thread can move back to top (Boba Fett) and if some of these topics are worthy or further discussion, we can do that in a better thread).

Ok so we know Boba was a clone of Jango, and the clone troopers were out working for the empire, and eventually they hired regular guys to be troopers. What would the possibility be for Boba to have some of these clones frozen in carbonite in case he needed body replacement parts? Lando didnt know if it would work on Luke, so they tested it on Han. But what if that was just Lando's knowledge, and Boba knew about it? He's a bounty hunter and is bound to know some pretty crazy ways to capture someone and keep em still. Would it be too farfetched to say he has a closet full of spare bodies as donors for him? If he did, then bam he can replace every single damaged body part and still carry on as himself!

As for surviving the sarlacc, it takes over 1,000 years to digest someone, so he could've still been in there alive and plotting an escape. And Jabba's sail barge blew up just above it, who knows, there could've been debris that cut the thing open and he flew out just moments after the explosion

Are you saying Boba Fett cloned Han Solo - so that if the carbon freezing didn't work, he could still pawn him off to Jabba?

Yes... Jabba's going to throw a Jedi into the Sarlaac Pit which obviously is well known for people escaping from it. I'm sure throwing our heroes into the pit was just a cunning ruse; because Jabba's a good guy at heart and knew Luke would escape the Sarlaac, kill off Palpatine and Vader and make the whole galaxy a happier place... but, Luke had to go and foul that up.

:confused

(Sorry - having fun, I'm tired and the sarcasm is creeping in way too much).

None of the prisoners had weapons (Jabba thought), grappling hooks, spacesuits, jetpacks, or any of the other things Boba would have going for him down there. Him being in the sarlacc wasn't part of Jabba's plan to execute Han and his friends.

--Jonah