Kylo Ren Fabric
- Thread starter Sni9er
- Start date
"I don't think anyone here has seen this in natural sunlight,"
Hello I cant find any proof of this
We do have natural lighting conditions in a number of places, first the photoshoot shows natural lighting, you literally can not get a better condition than snow and daylight. The behind the scenes shot of her taking the image shows no lighting. Second people got shots before those lights went on. See below
When the color comment was posted on the Sith Lord forum this info was presented (some by me)
also someone found an image of it completely unlit (NOT ALL OF THESE PHOTOS ARE MINE)
also i have a mail from talks to a costume designer
Xxxxx= wardrobe department member:
"Xxxxx: That fabric...we had it custom-made."
"R. Moreli: It's black, right? Monks cloth?"
"Xxxxx: Yes to black, but no monks cloth. Kind of a weird lighting in this exhibit. Custom black cotton that was coated.""
furthermore it says "top coat: black" on the plaque
Hello I cant find any proof of this
We do have natural lighting conditions in a number of places, first the photoshoot shows natural lighting, you literally can not get a better condition than snow and daylight. The behind the scenes shot of her taking the image shows no lighting. Second people got shots before those lights went on. See below
When the color comment was posted on the Sith Lord forum this info was presented (some by me)
also someone found an image of it completely unlit (NOT ALL OF THESE PHOTOS ARE MINE)
also i have a mail from talks to a costume designer
Xxxxx= wardrobe department member:
"Xxxxx: That fabric...we had it custom-made."
"R. Moreli: It's black, right? Monks cloth?"
"Xxxxx: Yes to black, but no monks cloth. Kind of a weird lighting in this exhibit. Custom black cotton that was coated.""
furthermore it says "top coat: black" on the plaque
Last edited by a moderator:
joshvanrad
Sr Member
What I meant to say is that I'd like to have a person who saw it firsthand post a picture of something, fabric or not, in the color of the overcoat. Photos can be deceptive, so I'd like to see something in reference to what people saw with their human eyes. If that makes any sense.
The picture you have here with the colors is similar to what I'm looking for though.
Last edited by a moderator:
I did see it first hand. I took 700 photos. No I didn't see it with the red and blue light off! When I saw it in person every person I asked said it was black. Infact I did originally wonder what color it was until the group of people with me pointed out the color of the lights were messing with the color.
Because the back looked gunsmoke and the front looked brown
Because the back looked gunsmoke and the front looked brown
"Xxxxx= wardrobe department member:
"Xxxxx: That fabric...we had it custom-made."
"R. Moreli: It's black, right? Monks cloth?"
"Xxxxx: Yes to black, but no monks cloth. Kind of a weird lighting in this exhibit. Custom black cotton that was coated"
AMAZING INFO thank you !
- - - Updated - - -
this is a great confidence boost to hear it was custom i still feared after all this work with the mill the actual fabric would be found
Woo-hoo !!
"Xxxxx: That fabric...we had it custom-made."
"R. Moreli: It's black, right? Monks cloth?"
"Xxxxx: Yes to black, but no monks cloth. Kind of a weird lighting in this exhibit. Custom black cotton that was coated"
AMAZING INFO thank you !
- - - Updated - - -
this is a great confidence boost to hear it was custom i still feared after all this work with the mill the actual fabric would be found
Woo-hoo !!
Last edited by a moderator:
Darthikari
New Member
I'm definitely interested in an accurate fabric too! I had considered using the same monks cloth I had used for my Tusken, but if the "real deal" is out there, I'd much rather do it right the first time!
vaderjeff1744
Well-Known Member
As always Dawn, your insight is INVALUABLE! Glad to see you over here too! GREAT JOB on your WIP Tutorial over on the SLD as well! AWESOME STUFF!!!:thumbsup Like others here, I'm also interested in getting my hands on accurate fabric for this costume, & all of the info. is VERY HELPFUL!!!
cool
Last edited by a moderator:
mikkonator
Member
The con image without the lights on is still not natural light and the vanity fair shots have definitely gone through post production. The behind the scene shot definitely does look quite natural though.
So if you're going for screen accuracy I'm sure you're fine with black, but if prop accuracy is your goal, there was that guy who supposedly talked to Michael Kaplan who said it was brown...
So if you're going for screen accuracy I'm sure you're fine with black, but if prop accuracy is your goal, there was that guy who supposedly talked to Michael Kaplan who said it was brown...
joshvanrad
Sr Member
I'm not seasoned at dying fabric, but would it be possible to mix a packet or 2 of brown dye in with black and get a similar result? Or would it possibly be best do dye it dark brown first, dry it, and then dye it with black?
BREAD WARRIOR
Well-Known Member
I'm sure most you guys have seen this but just incase, I feel like this might help with the inner layers as well as fabric weight.
Folks, debating the actual subtle tint of the fabric with only photos and the odd quote from a costume designer is pointless. A photo taken under natural light is almost as worthless as one under tinted indoor lighting.
The only way to know for certain is to either see the stuff with your own eyes under different lighting conditions and observe the tint or to get some hard data on the dye process used.
With the information we have at present, I'm going to dye my fabric black with a brown tint to it. (I will mix in some brown dye with the black, maybe a 1/8 ratio.) This will make it look black in most lighting conditions but give it a slight brown-shift in bright sunlight. (Actually, a brown tint in the fabric makes sense from a film-technical standpoint because it was probably more manageable than if the shift had gone towards the blue, when thinking of things like blue-screens.) I'm actually setting up my dye process for later this week. It's going to be a pretty large undertaking. I've got a 30 gallon container with a tap at the bottom that I will fill up with dye, vinegar, salt and water, which will be heated to 80 degrees Celsius over a period of a couple hours. Then I'll open the tap and wash out the excess dye, which will probably take a few hours as well.
Another thing no one has really mentioned is that the different threads in the weave appear to be slightly different in tone depending on direction and it may not be due to the lighting.
- Every camera will have its own white balance that will affect the subtle tints very differently
- Every photographer will have the white balance set differently, greatly affecting the results
- Dark colors will have a less noticeable tint-shift to the naked eye until you subject them to extremely bright light. Black fabric generally looks neutral until you take it outside and look at it in 20K-100K lux lighting. Then even the darkest fabrics will turn to a visible brown, blue or green. Most black fabrics shift more towards one color tint as there is rarely any point for a fabric designer to go for a 100% grey-balanced dye bath. So a very dark brown will look black a lot of the time.
- Costume designers will probably not give you exact answers unless you press them specifically for it and impress upon them the importance of exact information (i.e. "Does the fabric have a brown-black dye base or a blue-black dye base?")
- We must assume that all video and photos taken my media outlets are color-timed in some fashion before publication.
The only way to know for certain is to either see the stuff with your own eyes under different lighting conditions and observe the tint or to get some hard data on the dye process used.
With the information we have at present, I'm going to dye my fabric black with a brown tint to it. (I will mix in some brown dye with the black, maybe a 1/8 ratio.) This will make it look black in most lighting conditions but give it a slight brown-shift in bright sunlight. (Actually, a brown tint in the fabric makes sense from a film-technical standpoint because it was probably more manageable than if the shift had gone towards the blue, when thinking of things like blue-screens.) I'm actually setting up my dye process for later this week. It's going to be a pretty large undertaking. I've got a 30 gallon container with a tap at the bottom that I will fill up with dye, vinegar, salt and water, which will be heated to 80 degrees Celsius over a period of a couple hours. Then I'll open the tap and wash out the excess dye, which will probably take a few hours as well.
Another thing no one has really mentioned is that the different threads in the weave appear to be slightly different in tone depending on direction and it may not be due to the lighting.
I agree for our sample i think black is certainly a great base i'll push the mill for more information on the exact pigmentation but we might find out better when the sample arrives.
could you elaborate on this more:
my only assumption is your talking about the macro shots where you can see the twist of the yarn and you see specular highlighting giving the appearance of different shades, i have a feeling this will also be distorted due to the coating applied to the materiel which will change the reflective index of the materiel depending on how it was coated (i suspect it was a post process i.e sprayed) in which case we would have a varied reflective surface (depending on how well the coating penetrates the surface which could explain some of the varied colours shown on the lights
but until i get my sample and we can try a few different coatings it's all speculation
could you elaborate on this more:
my only assumption is your talking about the macro shots where you can see the twist of the yarn and you see specular highlighting giving the appearance of different shades, i have a feeling this will also be distorted due to the coating applied to the materiel which will change the reflective index of the materiel depending on how it was coated (i suspect it was a post process i.e sprayed) in which case we would have a varied reflective surface (depending on how well the coating penetrates the surface which could explain some of the varied colours shown on the lights
but until i get my sample and we can try a few different coatings it's all speculation
dday
Sr Member
I know things are useless without photos but I've seen some shots on the SLD where the fabric actually looked see through. In most shots the weave looks pretty solid but there is one where you can see right through it easily.
- - - Updated - - -
This leads me to wonder if the fabric is uniform in it's weave/thickness/tightness of the weaves and colors.
- - - Updated - - -
This leads me to wonder if the fabric is uniform in it's weave/thickness/tightness of the weaves and colors.
I'm talking about the "checkered" look to the fabric. (Below image taken from inside the hood.)
The vertical threads are lighter/shinier the the horizontal. It's fairly consistent over the entire coat, no matter what kind of light is hitting it. In extreme closeups it's more subtle, but it IS there.
It could be that the vertical threads are "higher" on the topography and thus reflect more light. (However, it's consistent even when the fabric twists.)
It could be the backing weave, which is more visible between the horizontal, is different (maybe darker or less reflective) somehow.
It could be that the vertical threads are from a different dye bath or a different batch of cotton that is somehow different (maybe it has chemical residue) that affects the look.
A post-process spray-on shine would affect all the threads more or less equally and would probably make the material more stiff. It would also probably clump the fibers together more between weave strands.
Look at the wool/cotton blend that I dyed:
Before dyeing, it was a fairly uniform cream-color. But afterward, some of the weave is noticeably darker. (I'm assuming those threads have more cotton blended than the others.) It COULD be that the outer coat has more than cotton in it and that there are differences in the threads of the weave. If it's 80% cotton, most costume dept people would probably not go to the trouble of describing in-depth the exact nature of the fabric unless asked specifically, since 99% of the media that is asking would not care about such an in-depth answer.
I have some experience of coating cotton in shiny stuff after doing the Star Lord jacket fabric. On that, I used a gloss clear fabric paint with a little bit of pearlescent medium for added reflectivity. When it went on too thick for the Star Lord jacket, I got similar results in shine to the Kylo fabric. So, I'm going to experiment with a method of rolling the same paint onto the fabric like you would paint a wall. That way it will be forced to soak into the weave. (I'll probably try it on dry and wet fabric to see if there is any difference.)
The vertical threads are lighter/shinier the the horizontal. It's fairly consistent over the entire coat, no matter what kind of light is hitting it. In extreme closeups it's more subtle, but it IS there.
It could be that the vertical threads are "higher" on the topography and thus reflect more light. (However, it's consistent even when the fabric twists.)
It could be the backing weave, which is more visible between the horizontal, is different (maybe darker or less reflective) somehow.
It could be that the vertical threads are from a different dye bath or a different batch of cotton that is somehow different (maybe it has chemical residue) that affects the look.
A post-process spray-on shine would affect all the threads more or less equally and would probably make the material more stiff. It would also probably clump the fibers together more between weave strands.
Look at the wool/cotton blend that I dyed:
Before dyeing, it was a fairly uniform cream-color. But afterward, some of the weave is noticeably darker. (I'm assuming those threads have more cotton blended than the others.) It COULD be that the outer coat has more than cotton in it and that there are differences in the threads of the weave. If it's 80% cotton, most costume dept people would probably not go to the trouble of describing in-depth the exact nature of the fabric unless asked specifically, since 99% of the media that is asking would not care about such an in-depth answer.
I have some experience of coating cotton in shiny stuff after doing the Star Lord jacket fabric. On that, I used a gloss clear fabric paint with a little bit of pearlescent medium for added reflectivity. When it went on too thick for the Star Lord jacket, I got similar results in shine to the Kylo fabric. So, I'm going to experiment with a method of rolling the same paint onto the fabric like you would paint a wall. That way it will be forced to soak into the weave. (I'll probably try it on dry and wet fabric to see if there is any difference.)
I agree for our sample i think black is certainly a great base i'll push the mill for more information on the exact pigmentation but we might find out better when the sample arrives.
could you elaborate on this more:
my only assumption is your talking about the macro shots where you can see the twist of the yarn and you see specular highlighting giving the appearance of different shades, i have a feeling this will also be distorted due to the coating applied to the materiel which will change the reflective index of the materiel depending on how it was coated (i suspect it was a post process i.e sprayed) in which case we would have a varied reflective surface (depending on how well the coating penetrates the surface which could explain some of the varied colours shown on the lights
but until i get my sample and we can try a few different coatings it's all speculation
Similar threads
