When will the Marvel backlash begin?

I thought Thor was going to be Marvel's downfall... but it was actually good.

I thought Captain America was going to be too dated and jingoistic to work... but it was good.

Iron Man 2 was definitely bad. I thought that might be the end. But it wasn't.

I thought that, with The Avengers, Marvel shot their wad. But Thor 2 was a film that actually advanced the characters and Winter Soldier was, arguably, even better than The Avengers.

I was certain that Guardians of the Galaxy was going to be a mediocre film ... but I've probably watched this one more times than any other Marvel film.

I had no reason to think Netflix Daredevil could compare to shows like Arrow. ... but I've just finished the series and I'm still smitten.



I'm doubtful about Ant-Man...

Will the Marvel bubble eventually burst? Probably but people have been predicting this for years and they only get better.
 
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It took Marvel a couple of attempts to hit their stride and they've already had their "failures". "Hulk" movies anybody? "Iron Man" represented their first true home run and thats purely because Robert Downey J made the character his own and they made it great fun. When all super hrero movies up to that point had been deadly serious. And then the master stroke was to make each separate movie link into a wider universe, again by getting the casting of both the hero and the villian spot on. So in effect they've grown it into a huge series of episodes and they are just great entertainment ! How can you find them "all the same"??????? Explainl please? Its like saying "hey you know what ,all the comics seem the same" because they are written by the same writers and illustrated by the same artists. The beauty of the movies actually IS that they feel quite different, actually more so than many of the comic versions.
It seems to be the trend today where people are just dying to see somebody fail, just to give them something to talk about. Its inevitable that at some point one movie will be less succefull than the others, "Captain America" was far less popular than "Iron Man." "Iron Man 2" displeased many after the critical and commercial success of the first. Its all going to be swings and roundabouts because we all have different tastes, but I think Marvel have done a fantastic job of broadening the franchise. Keep them coming is what I say

The Ang Lee Hulk was not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which started with Iron Man. You can't blame them for that piece of crap.

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I don't think the backlash will be because they start making bad movies, just that the public will tire of them. I'm sure they can keep the same level of quality up.

I don't think the public will ever tire of them, they're all full of explosions and CGI, that's what sells to the public. That's why Michael Bay movies always sell, no matter how bad they are. Comic fans might tire of them but the general public? Never.
 
Yes, I know,but prior to Iron Man they co produced a lot of films with various studios and it was only when they realized they still held the filming rights to the Avengers characters that they concieved of them as a possible series of movies that they could produce in house and still have complete artistic control of. Oh and "The Incredible Hulk" still sucked though only marginally less worse than Ang Lees. But the recent ones I'll happily rewatch time and again. Hence this coming week The Avengers, Thor II ,Iron Man III, and The Winter Soldier before I go to the cinema to see AGE OF ULTRON !!!!!!!
 
I don't know....people have loved these characters for over what.... 75 years now. My love for Hulk as a 2 year old, now being 37 and having a toddler who has loved Hulk since he was 2 (now 4) shows the longevity and timelessness of these characters from generation to generation. I see no death to Marvel in sight for a long time. They're going to be well handled by Disney.
 
As a 50 year old guy who grew up with these comics and had to sit through all that horrid 70s television stuff, I'm loving ALL this Marvel stuff. I enjoyed a few of the really old 60s cartoons when I was a small child, but thought all that Spider-man/X-men animated stuff of the 90s was garbage. I've always wanted to see good live action movies of these characters and am finally getting it.

I hope this wave continues further for a good long while.
LMAO I with you man. I can still remember spiderman shooting a fisherman's net from his wrist, or Captain America painting landscapes by the side of the road. Hulk, Batman and Robin, Shazam, Wonder Woman-Linda Carter in that stupid diaper. The list is endless. These youngins have no idea. They look at a K car and laugh, but if they grew up with a horse and buggy you know they're pimpin out that bad boy...GM

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As a 50 year old guy who grew up with these comics and had to sit through all that horrid 70s television stuff, I'm loving ALL this Marvel stuff. I enjoyed a few of the really old 60s cartoons when I was a small child, but thought all that Spider-man/X-men animated stuff of the 90s was garbage. I've always wanted to see good live action movies of these characters and am finally getting it.

I hope this wave continues further for a good long while.
LMAO I with you man. I can still remember spiderman shooting a fisherman's net from his wrist, or Captain America painting landscapes by the side of the road. Hulk, Batman and Robin, Shazam, Wonder Woman-Linda Carter in that stupid diaper. The list is endless. These youngins have no idea. They look at a K car and laugh, but if they grew up with a horse and buggy you know they're pimpin out that bad boy...GM
 
I think it will be interesting to see how things progress as Joss Whedon steps back some and Marvel Disney expands out. Having him in the back ground has helped a few of the Marvel films that stuttered at times. His help with Loki in The Dark World, may have made that film.
I think Disney / Marvel has a good set of writers now, it will be interesting to see how they focus the franchises and quality of the films for phase 3.
To be honest, I think they will have a bit of a trip up. It would be nice if they can hold it together but the growth / introduction of new franchises and loss of Joss may tip the scales against Marvel.
 
I don't think Marvel is entirely lost without Joss. I've heard a number of interviews with the Russo Brothers (who are working on Civil War and will be working on Infinity War) and they are exquisitely passionate about future projects in such a way that I don't think they'll burn out. Joss has incredible endurance but he's just one person. The brothers seem to distribute the load and were ready to dive into Civil War right after Winter Soldier.
 
I don't think Marvel is entirely lost without Joss. I've heard a number of interviews with the Russo Brothers (who are working on Civil War and will be working on Infinity War) and they are exquisitely passionate about future projects in such a way that I don't think they'll burn out. Joss has incredible endurance but he's just one person. The brothers seem to distribute the load and were ready to dive into Civil War right after Winter Soldier.

Spot on! I remembering wondering why Joss held that Cornetto up (yes I know what it represented but!) when Edgar left "Antman" ,it seemed such a highly personal thing to do and heartfelt. Reading all the recent interviews there no doubt he's had a hard time on AOU, trying to balance the demands of Marvel with his own highly critical and creative direction. He does seem exhausted and thats worrying, the guy needs a holiday and a break from the MCU before he has a heart attack. I agree about the Russo's, they seem more able to bare the brunt of expectation by dividing the workload, they correct and support eachother like an Avengers mini team. The fact that Marvel and Disney are hiring and allowing with people who are fans and understand these universes of the imagination just shows why the films have been successful so far!!!!!
 
In decades past it has been about the 3rd movie when they foul up. The studio gets overconfident in the money machine. They start letting the merchandising interests write the script, and/or the script is just plain weak & rushed. Look at Superman in the 70s/80s, Star Wars OT, Batman in the 90s, Spider-Man in the 2000s, etc.

These days Marvel seems to be avoiding this pitfall.

But they haven't learned not to over-saturate the whole market. The public may never tire of action & adventure & super-powers but the comic hero genre can be worn out. There was a time when people didn't think the Western would ever fall from popularity. Or the "tough cop living by his own rules fighting evil druglords" movies in the 1980s/90s. Etc.



The Star Wars prequels may have proved that people will buy bad movies if the genre/franchise is beloved enough. But they didn't prove the concept of 15 similar monster-hit movies in 15 years, good quality or bad. People were pretty tired of Star Wars after only 3 bad prequels in 7 years. And in that case, we were basically sticking it out to learn the origin story (for the FIRST TIME EVER, in ANY format) of characters we already loved.

This summer will mark the 3rd time in 13 years that they've tried to relaunch the Terminator franchise. The new movie looks weak so far. Even if this new movie does a moderate box office take (as the previous weak restarts did), does the public seem ready to buy another one after that?




Spider-Man will probably be the first 21st-century superhero to wear out its welcome at the movie theater. They are burning that show into the ground as fast as they can get it done. The public does not care how often Sony needs to keep making new movies to hold onto the rights.
 
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I'm old, but I like the movies....Thor was clever and inspired, so was Ironman. Every thing is a snoozefest....but it's still entertainment.

The clever original sparks a franchise where they go lazy and simply add more characters and CGI.

Thor
IronMan
Transformers
StarWars (with the exception of ESB)
Matrix
 
I don't think Marvel is entirely lost without Joss. I've heard a number of interviews with the Russo Brothers (who are working on Civil War and will be working on Infinity War) and they are exquisitely passionate about future projects in such a way that I don't think they'll burn out. Joss has incredible endurance but he's just one person. The brothers seem to distribute the load and were ready to dive into Civil War right after Winter Soldier.

I don't think Joss has much to do with the success of the MCU. They did just fine without him before, they'll do fine without him in the future. The fact is, he was given a property that really could not fail and when it didn't fail, everyone acts like it was all him. It wasn't.
 
I don't think Joss has much to do with the success of the MCU. They did just fine without him before, they'll do fine without him in the future. The fact is, he was given a property that really could not fail and when it didn't fail, everyone acts like it was all him. It wasn't.
What Joss brought to the table was an innate understanding of the characters (so easy to mess up power balance in Iron Man vs. Thor battle for example.) and the ability to set up a satisfying ensemble which honors each character (also a rare talent). I think Joss was vital to the success of The Avengers.

Avengers sequels shouldn't be as tough as the first film.

Russos are great action directors. I think they'll do fine.
 
Am I the only one who doesnt Think avengers was that good in comparison to the other marvel films? I would much rather watch iron man, captain america, winter soldier (my favourite),GotG, or Thor 1-2.
just wondering I'm a marvel buff but I just don't think it was that special compared to the others.

For the op question I don't think they will ever stop completely we may see them slow down after infinity wars maybe go to tv for a while. But I don't think marvel will ever stop
 
It's almost the nature of comic book franchises themselves to become vast and sprawling and then reboot themselves back into order. Because the fan base is accepting of that I think Marvel has a long road ahead.
 
You can't use the history of prior comic movies to predict the future of Marvel's current run because their approach has been decidedly atypical.

Prior to The Avengers the prevailing logic was that you first make the team movie (or a solo movie with a guest character) and then spin off a new franchise. Marvel established a precedent by doing it the other way around.

The typical Hollywood studio model is built upon formulas to maximize the opening weekend. To that end, a typical blockbuster is constructed around the formula of big stars, big effects and a killer trailer. If a film like, say, Donner's Superman, was a smash hit then the sequel would be a guaranteed opening draw. With that in mind, why dump the same budget into the sequel? Let's cut out Brando. Let's rush the production. Let's cut the effects budget. The dumb fans will come to opening weekend regardless of how good or bad the film is. That's how franchises often die.

Raime's Spider-Man run was crushed in the 3rd film by the studios with creative differences over the content. Studios wanted Venom because he was popular. Director didn't. You saw the result.

But, it seems, Marvel doesn't crap out on the sequels. They're not about cranking out the obligatory sequel but trust the source material to guide the evolving stories organically.

Marvel's Kevin Feige's difference is that he believes in translating the spirit of what he loved in the comics to the screen. That's all. This is also generally true of the directors they pick - an appreciation of the comic books themselves. The Hollywood studio "rules" don't apply. That's a fundamental difference with the Marvel films. He's not following a "formula." He and his creative teams and directors only want to bring their favorite stories to the screen.

After The Avengers, the public discussed whether Marvel or Warner/DC be the first to bring a female superhero movie to the screen. Many folks wanted Marvel to make a Black Widow film. But Marvel's plans weren't dictated by serving a demographic and no Widow film was planned - instead Feige just said the schedule of films was mainly dictated by the long story being told. Warner/DC, on the other hand was quick to be the first to announce an upcoming female superhero film Wonder Woman (with female director) and black superhero film Cyborg at a shareholders meeting. Marvel, on the other hand, held a special press event at El Capitan about their "Phase 3" plans for fans (not shareholders).

It feels like Warner/DC is still trying to anticipate the market of public interest instead of just making movies that comic readers love. I feel like Warner/DC's folly is the Warner exec component. Marvel has shown that, if you want to make watchable comic films with lasting appeal, you need to have them made by people who love and understand comics. If Warner actually entrusted creative control of their superhero films to the DC Comics division I think they cold do something really special.

I feel like, as long as Marvel has new stories to tell, they'll keep making movies and they'll still have an audience. It's when films become formulaic and redundant that the audience dies. If the audience shrinks I think Marvel will work on smaller scales, on lesser budgets, focus on Netflix series but will not stop as long as they're backed by Disney and have tales to tell.

Maybe the analogy with westerns is apt. Even with the demise of the boom in western films - there are modern westerns (Unforgiven, Lonesome Dove, Silverado, Tombstone, Django Unchained ...) that arise, not as a result of anticipated public interest in the genre, but in the need to tell a good story.
 
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I still get the impression that Marvel is following their carefully laid out plan and that DC is simply trying to play catch up and try and copy their success. They're not trying to build a winning formula they're trying to cash in. Hell, they've had what? 20 years to do something like this and never bothered. Batman 89, Superman Returns, Bale batman, etc. They never seemed to have the desire to do it. Until marvel did it, then it's, "oh we gotta do that too!".

Sadly, i think WW and Cyborg are trotted out as implied above - to be able to claim female and minority. I don't think it's due to any master plan. I mean, really? they lay out plans for what was it? 8-10 flicks over 5-6 years? and that's after MoS which wasn't that great to begin with. Marvel didn't even anounce it after the home run that was Iron Man, they just did another movie. Then another. All of which were well done and well recieved and made good money. The only reason for DC to lay out such an ambition plan at that time was for headlines and try and draw the attention to their side. Nothing more. I mean, what happens if BvS tanks? I still see DC as being reactive as opposed to pro-active. And everything being 'grimdark' just doesn't really seem to jive. Batman, yes. Sure. Superman? No, WW, I don't see it (though i'm aware of the origins of the 52 version which would seem to fit).

As for the OT, though. why is it backlash? Backlash is people turning on you. I figure marvel has two flops before they're even questioned and so far, they're at 0. At this point, they've more than earned the benefit of the doubt. And even at that point, it wouldn't be a backlash, it would be less viewers and some disappointment. I don't see people revolting against the company.

They message they've sent is make sure the people in power like and know the source material and stay true to it - and it'll work. I don't see that from the other side at this point.
 
The typical Hollywood studio model is built upon formulas to maximize the opening weekend. To that end, a typical blockbuster is constructed around the formula of big stars, big effects and a killer trailer. If a film like, say, Donner's Superman, was a smash hit then the sequel would be a guaranteed opening draw. With that in mind, why dump the same budget into the sequel? Let's cut out Brando. Let's rush the production. Let's cut the effects budget. The dumb fans will come to opening weekend regardless of how good or bad the film is. That's how franchises often die.

Yes, that used to be the pattern before George Lucas showed there was another way in the early 80s with the SW OT.


Raime's Spider-Man run was crushed in the 3rd film by the studios with creative differences over the content. Studios wanted Venom because he was popular. Director didn't. You saw the result.

IMO that failure falls under the heading of getting overconfident & putting merchandising concerns ahead of the creative good of the film. If the studio had not been so sure the 3rd one was a sure-thing success then they would have kept on deferring to the creative people who had been making the movies work up to then.


But, it seems, Marvel doesn't crap out on the sequels. They're not about cranking out the obligatory sequel but trust the source material to guide the evolving stories organically.

The stories do indeed have some creative merit, and more than most crap sequels did before the 1990s. But the Marvel comic universe is operating like one huge franchise. Any franchise putting out 7+ movies inside of a decade is doing some obligatory sequels.
 
I don't think you'll see backlash until several really poorly-received films are released in succession.

Iron Man 3 was probably the weakest of Marvel's films thus far, and the franchise as a whole is still thriving because they reverted to form with GotG and CA:TWS and Thor 2.

Basically, I think you're gonna see Marvel succeed for a while.

The other thing to bear in mind about westerns vs. different genres is that there's far less competition in comic movies. Marvel movies don't compete with each other -- they support each other. DC is really the only other challenger. Everything else, even if it comes from a comic book, is treated differently like a standalone thing. With westerns, every studio out there made 'em, including crappy little B-movie studios. Not so with superhero movies. You've got two major sources (technically three and a half, if you include Fox and Sony) for comic book films, and...that's it.

There's FAR more centralization and control in media production now, anyway. So, I think you're more likely to see engineered trend shifts, rather than out-of-left-field surprises. Even another staggeringly popular genre probably won't do it because...the staggeringly popular genre will probably be coming from the same sources as those who make the comic book movies anyway, and they won't shoot themselves in the foot (y'know, unless it's Sony...).
 
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