Legally speaking, you're absolutely right. Distribution is one of the exclusive rights of a copyright holder. Altering the work is relevant if you're trying to argue that what you're putting out actually isn't a copy of the old thing, but is something so changed as to be new, but that can be difficult to prove. That, however, is all the legal side of things.

Practically speaking,Disney and LucasFilm before it have -- so far -- turned a blind eye to this sort of thing, since it hasn't really cut into their existing profits in a meaningful way. It'd cost them more to hunt down and shut down people making and distributing fan edits than it costs them to ignore it. Especially since, from a practical perspective, the fan edits haven't cut into Disney's share. Disney (and Fox) is selling the SEs only. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the market for fan edits like Adywan's or Harmy's is made up of people who've already bought a legitimate version of the films anyway (in multiple media formats over the years, no less). So, for the time being, it appears that nobody really cares enough to want to spend the money to stop this sort of thing. Now, it's a different story for sold versions of this. That they won't countenance. But the freely-traded fan edits...they don't seem to be trying to hard to suppress, so they must just not think it's worth it. I'm sure they know it all exists. They just...don't really care.

So far.
As mentioned in my previous post, changing someone else's piece is not grounds to allow distribution (or sale) of an alleged new piece. The owner of the original piece has rights that protect his property and that includes someone changing their pieces. It's a moot argument that folks editing or "fixing" Star Wars are changing the work by any degree (as #1 they're not really changing anything and #2 there is no way they can legally make changes).

Lucasfilm and Disney have turned a blind eye. Owning a previous copy is not an excuse for downloading these copies and is definitely not an excuse to distribute them. Folks can continue to thumb their noses at the folks that own these properties... but, perhaps they're just waking that sleeping giant.
 
As mentioned in my previous post, changing someone else's piece is not grounds to allow distribution (or sale) of an alleged new piece. The owner of the original piece has rights that protect his property and that includes someone changing their pieces. It's a moot argument that folks editing or "fixing" Star Wars are changing the work by any degree (as #1 they're not really changing anything and #2 there is no way they can legally make changes).

Lucasfilm and Disney have turned a blind eye. Owning a previous copy is not an excuse for downloading these copies and is definitely not an excuse to distribute them. Folks can continue to thumb their noses at the folks that own these properties... but, perhaps they're just waking that sleeping giant.

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

Practically speaking, Disney/LucasFilm doesn't care...for now. We'll see if that changes. If they don't decide to get into the OOT market themselves, I think the status quo will likely continue. If they do, I expect it'll change. Of course, they could still decide to go after these folks even if they aren't issuing their own OOT, but it's less likely due to the expense involved as weighed against the cost of ignoring the bootlegs.

But legally speaking, the distribution of fan edits is infringement, and nobody's gonna win on a fair use defense in this case.
 
I don't think anybody is arguing the legality of the fan edits, but they do exist and in the big picture they seem inconsequential to the entities that hold the rights. Personally I have no fear of giants, sleeping or otherwise. ;)
 
I'm curious if fanedits might be considered to fall under the homage, parody, and tribute umbrella.

But more, Dan and JD have got me thinking... Not about the OOT, in this case, but. What are the chances Fox has approached Lucasfilm about a re-release in theaters of the extant Star Wars films, but Disney has blocked it in an attempt to force Fox into being more cooperative with their Marvel properties?

--Jonah
 
I'm curious if fanedits might be considered to fall under the homage, parody, and tribute umbrella.

Legally, no. An "homage" is where you do something new that references something old. Like, the award ceremony/throne room scene in Star Wars is a visual homage to Triumph Des Willens, and the trench run is an homage to The Dam Busters. But all of that is happening in the context of an otherwise original work. A tribute is basically the same thing as an homage. No fan edit falls into this category because they're basically just tweaking the original work.

A parody subverts the meaning of the original work, usually for humorous effect or for social commentary purposes or some mix of the two. So, Airplane! is a parody of the film Airport and its multiple sequels. It takes the same basic concept (large cast featuring multiple focal characters, disaster film about a plane trying to land, etc.), but it makes the whole thing intentionally humorous.

This is closely related to the concept of a "transformative work" where the original work is so altered as to fundamentally change the meaning of the work. 2 Live Crew's "Oh Ugly Woman" and the book The Wind Done Gone are examples of transformative works that courts have upheld. The concept of a transformative work is also part of the fair use doctrine. Fair use is what's known as an "affirmative defense" which basically says "Yes, I copied the work, but it's ok because...."

All of this stuff is highly fact-specific, too. But the bottom line is simple: no fan edit out there that I've seen would be likely to receive fair use protection or be considered a transformative work. They're blatant copyright infringement under the law. It's just that the rights holders generally ignore the infringement.


But more, Dan and JD have got me thinking... Not about the OOT, in this case, but. What are the chances Fox has approached Lucasfilm about a re-release in theaters of the extant Star Wars films, but Disney has blocked it in an attempt to force Fox into being more cooperative with their Marvel properties?

I doubt Fox has approached Disney. I doubt Disney wants Fox releasing anything at this point, since it will only (A) draw focus away from their new stuff, and (B) mean that Disney has to share money with Fox when they don't need to. There isn't enough of an upside in re-releasing the OT or the PT in theaters. And Disney not allowing Fox to release the films -- if Fox even asked in the first place -- doesn't really relate to the Marvel issue.

The Marvel issue is settled: Fox has the film rights (and I think the TV rights) to X-Men and the FF. They're not gonna give that up. The last X-men film was well received and financially successful. First Class was, too. Even The Wolverine did decently. That's three succesful X-Men films in a row. They're not about to give that up. The reason the Sony deal with Disney happened was because Sony has had several not-so-well-received Spider Man films in the past few years. Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 both failed to really take off, and the whole Sinister Six thing looks like it's going nowhere, too. While they may appear to be run by incompetents based on the email hack and other recent stuff, they appear to at least be smart enough to want to tie their next Spidey film in to the MCU itself. This may also relate to the push by Marvel to bring more "Spidey-adjacent" properties to the big screen/TV, like Daredevil and Jessica Jones.
 
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I'm curious if fanedits might be considered to fall under the homage, parody, and tribute umbrella.
from http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=235592&page=3&p=3588973&viewfull=1#post3588973

"As mentioned in my previous post, changing someone else's piece is not grounds to allow distribution (or sale) of an alleged new piece. The owner of the original piece has rights that protect his property and that includes someone changing their pieces. It's a moot argument that folks editing or "fixing" Star Wars are changing the work by any degree (as #1 they're not really changing anything and #2 there is no way they can legally make changes)."

and http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=235592&page=3&p=3588973&viewfull=1#post3588973

"Modifying or altering an image is infringing upon the copyright owner's rights unless expressed permission is granted or the modification falls under fair use (which is highly unlikely)."
 
I really think the OOT needs to be preserved. Period.

I DO want to own 4k versions of the unaltered OT.

But I think they should also take the original in full resolution... after being restored... Actually make a new definitive "special edition".

Meaning color tweak, cleaned up land speeder, tie fighter etc. effects. Sound mastering etc etc. all with the best Disney has. (NO original SE footage)

You can hate my opinion. But I think it's a possible future for the OT. And I would personally love to see what they could do.

I would personally really like them to fix the (at times, horrendous) lightsaber effects in episodes 2, 3 and 4. Mostly the only fixing needed in 5 and 6 is to undo what they did with the DVDs and bluray's where for example Vader's lightsaber is pink all of the sudden.

 
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Ooookay. They all look like lightsabers to me.

Except the Blu-Ray one makes it look like the glowing blade of the lightsaber is actually a flaming blade (similar to the light saber seen in the trailer for SWTFA). Me, I like the enhancement because it looks closer to the original theatrical cut's blade effect.
 
^ I don't care for that enhancement.
The PT-style sabers just look like big dumb glowsticks.
The original Luke saber in the clip above looks dangerous.

Can't place episodes 1-3 in the same lightsaber category. The ones in Phantom Menace were made to look like the originals, as in a bright lightsource. Where as EP 2 and 3 were made to look like god knows what :wacko a white solid stick with a blob of color around it.
 
I miss the shuddering look of the OT sabers. The accidental animation effect of a human artist manually repainting the shape of the blade every single frame. It makes the blade look alive.

It doesn't seem that crucial until you look at videos of real-life LED lightsaber blades in action. No matter how might LED brightness & dark rooms they throw at the problem, the real-life blades still look "dead" compared to the OT footage.
 
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about the "legality" of fan edits and restorations by people like Harmy and Adywan. I have all of their edits and I'll continue to get them in the future because I've bought the OT so many times on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray that I feel like I'm owed a proper representation of those films at some point....especially since "the sleeping giant" never would make them available! Nothing is going to change my opinion on this issue.
 
Oh, I'd bet a lawsuit would. :)

But that was kind of my point. Realistically, Disney/LucasFilm isn't going to go after the peopel who are downloading this, because they're small potatoes. The same is true, even, of the guys making the fan edits.


At this point, the only reason I'd see for them to really try to hammer people doing this would be if it was actually a threat to their own video sales, which it really isn't. The same fans will buy the official releases anyway, so they're making all the money they can expect to make. And if they announced a true archival edition of the OOT...the fan edits would probably dry up altogether.
 
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about the "legality" of fan edits and restorations by people like Harmy and Adywan. I have all of their edits and I'll continue to get them in the future because I've bought the OT so many times on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray that I feel like I'm owed a proper representation of those films at some point....especially since "the sleeping giant" never would make them available! Nothing is going to change my opinion on this issue.
You can "feel" like you're owed something... but, that doesn't mean you are. You got what you paid for - you chose to buy the VHS, DVD, Blu Rays - no one forced you to - you're not entitled to something more for nothing.
 
You can "feel" like you're owed something... but, that doesn't mean you are. You got what you paid for - you chose to buy the VHS, DVD, Blu Rays - no one forced you to - you're not entitled to something more for nothing.

Judging by all of your other posts in this thread it's clear we're not going to agree on this issue so I'm certainly not going to waste my time arguing with you. That time would be much better served watching one of Harmy's or Adywan's edits....which I will gladly do whenever I feel like it with no reservations whatsoever.
 
Judging by all of your other posts in this thread it's clear we're not going to agree on this issue so I'm certainly not going to waste my time arguing with you. That time would be much better served watching one of Harmy's or Adywan's edits....which I will gladly do whenever I feel like it with no reservations whatsoever.
One doesn't need to argue to have a discussion - and honestly, there's little to discuss (or argue) about - you're free to feel that you're entitled to something that you're not at all owed.

Feel free to use the entitlement philosophy as a reason for your stealing. :)
 
I feel like I've read this thread before...

x infinity!

But I'll also add I don't get the people who feel they're owed something more than what they already paid for. I mean, I want an de-specialized version of the OT as much as the next guy, but I dont see that I'm entitled to it just because I say so. Then again, that attitude seems to be pretty prevalent these days. I dunno. :unsure:darnkids
 

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