Doctor Who opinions
- Thread starter Kaitou
- Start date
Solo4114
Master Member
I first tried getting into Who by renting and watching through the Key to Time season with the 4th Doctor. I made it through the first serial...and lost interest. It wasn't until the new stuff came out and I watched the 2005 season that I decided to go ALL the way back to the beginning and go from there. As a result, I now have no single favorite Doctor, and can find things to appreciate in all of them.
That said, I think it really helps to have a more modern take, even if the 2005 era is now starting to show its age as well. There are some weaker episodes, but by and large, the new stuff is simply paced in a more modern fashion. The old stuff, by comparison, is way more plodding. With new viewers, I think you really have to gauge what kind of sci-fi fan they are. Some can't appreciate an interesting idea in spite of a clunky execution. Others really need a relatable feel to the material to get past the fantastical elements. That's why I think starting in 2005 with the relaunch is the best way to go. If that gets 'em curious about the old stuff, fine and dandy, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
My big criticism of the new era is in Moffat's overall plotting and the quality of the writing in general since he's taken over. For whatever reason, I found RTD's treatment of Doctor Who to be generally more memorable in terms of individual episodes, and his approach to season-long arcs to be FAR more subtle. Moffat's approach is usually to add some big "tease" at the end of the episode to hint at what's coming, and it's just too...tacked on. It's not organic to the story, and seems like a gimmick. Then his execution always ends up feeling very slapdash and last-minute. He nails the emotional aspects, but if you peek behind the curtain even the slightest, you see that the story itself is a mess. And in the end, that's I think the biggest weakness of this season: the stories themselves have been relatively weak vehicles for otherwise very solid character development. I'm hoping that after Clara's gone, this improves.
Also, I LOVE Love & Monsters. But I love it because it's a one-off that shows the kind of wake the Doctor can leave behind him, for good and ill.
That said, I think it really helps to have a more modern take, even if the 2005 era is now starting to show its age as well. There are some weaker episodes, but by and large, the new stuff is simply paced in a more modern fashion. The old stuff, by comparison, is way more plodding. With new viewers, I think you really have to gauge what kind of sci-fi fan they are. Some can't appreciate an interesting idea in spite of a clunky execution. Others really need a relatable feel to the material to get past the fantastical elements. That's why I think starting in 2005 with the relaunch is the best way to go. If that gets 'em curious about the old stuff, fine and dandy, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
My big criticism of the new era is in Moffat's overall plotting and the quality of the writing in general since he's taken over. For whatever reason, I found RTD's treatment of Doctor Who to be generally more memorable in terms of individual episodes, and his approach to season-long arcs to be FAR more subtle. Moffat's approach is usually to add some big "tease" at the end of the episode to hint at what's coming, and it's just too...tacked on. It's not organic to the story, and seems like a gimmick. Then his execution always ends up feeling very slapdash and last-minute. He nails the emotional aspects, but if you peek behind the curtain even the slightest, you see that the story itself is a mess. And in the end, that's I think the biggest weakness of this season: the stories themselves have been relatively weak vehicles for otherwise very solid character development. I'm hoping that after Clara's gone, this improves.
Also, I LOVE Love & Monsters. But I love it because it's a one-off that shows the kind of wake the Doctor can leave behind him, for good and ill.
Oh wow, I watched Doctor Who the first time for the wrong reasons, I just completed Sherlock on Netflix for the first time and I learned that the same writers also worked on Doctor Who. At the time I was curious of the show because I saw it whenever I was at a mall or whatever. My first episode of Doctor Who was "The Day Of The Doctor." I remember being absolutely amazed about the very notion of regeneration, and so I started with the new series and watched from that point on. Granted I binged through a lot of parts because I started really watching over Christmas and really admired a lot of the aspects of it, I think I'm one of the few to really enjoy Steven Moffat's writing on the show, but I will say that all I need for a great episode is something centered around The Doctor with the companion playing a secondary role. I'll agree however that while I think 11 and Clara were great, she doesn't work nearly as well with 12, I've really stopped caring about her, but I'm sure the series 8 finale will change my mind completely.
I guess it all links back to the age you were when you first saw it. "Dr Who" and the Gerry Anderson series were about the only decent British TV sci-fi series you could watch when I was a kid. So the most memorable for me were the episodes that gave me the creeps. So Jon Pertwee in "The Green Death" springs immediately to mind, although he remains firmly my second favorite ,for Tom Baker was MY DOCTOR by a mile and had some of the best ever moments. Again the best for me was "The Ark in Space" (the Wirm) . It predates Alien and was low budget to say the least, but it was horribly effective for what it made you think about. And Tom Baker had my two favorite companions, Sarah Jayne and Leela, both of whom I had the usually teenage crush for along with Jamie Summers (The Bionic Woman).
I didn't enjoy any of the Drs after Tom Baker departed,mainly because the production and direction changed and it all became very pantomine and again older teeenagers have different interests and there was much better and more watchable sci fi post Star wars, being produced.
Of the new Doctors Ecclestons was my favourite and "Dalek" perhaps the best of all episodes with "Vincent" a close second. After that I found the content variable to say the least, good and bad in equal measures. Anything including kids or light comedy I pretty much loathed, with the latest series particularly registering an all time lowt. Without Capaldis performance making it so enjoyably aceribic I wouldn't bother with it.
I didn't enjoy any of the Drs after Tom Baker departed,mainly because the production and direction changed and it all became very pantomine and again older teeenagers have different interests and there was much better and more watchable sci fi post Star wars, being produced.
Of the new Doctors Ecclestons was my favourite and "Dalek" perhaps the best of all episodes with "Vincent" a close second. After that I found the content variable to say the least, good and bad in equal measures. Anything including kids or light comedy I pretty much loathed, with the latest series particularly registering an all time lowt. Without Capaldis performance making it so enjoyably aceribic I wouldn't bother with it.
Given the current popularity of the show, I'm guessing this comment wont get too many likes, but...
I loved the show as a kid in the 80's, but now...apparently we can update the doctor to a new actor, we can get new sidekicks, we can change the tardis to a police box that no one uses anymore because it's slightly less awkward than the telephone box that no one uses anymore, we can change the magic wand/screwdriver....
but Daleks still apparently must always look like something a 1960's era prop team built out of things found in their garage.
I loved the show as a kid in the 80's, but now...apparently we can update the doctor to a new actor, we can get new sidekicks, we can change the tardis to a police box that no one uses anymore because it's slightly less awkward than the telephone box that no one uses anymore, we can change the magic wand/screwdriver....
but Daleks still apparently must always look like something a 1960's era prop team built out of things found in their garage.
Well, for starters the TARDIS was always a police box, never a phone box. Also, the Daleks, even the RTD ones, are a far cry from their 1960s counterparts. They of course have to have the same general features due to their iconic standing, but they are a far more detailed and polished costume now.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2
I stand corrected on the tardis. It's been a long time and as a kid it somehow got crosswired in my memory with the metal phoneboxes we used to have.
As for Dalek...just looked up a side by side to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks on me there as well and...nope. Mildly updated upside down trashcan with plunger hand. Seriously this was fine in the 60's when British TV shows typically had about the same budget as this website. Now? It's just sad. Making a nicer version of the box that was outclassed by Lost in Space doesn't count as updated.
JD
Master Member
What you're saying may not be all that off base; but, what you're missing is that the Dalek has become a classic symbol - you can't change the basics of the design. They most definitely could change it, ...but you don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, you don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with the Dalek design.
Bodie27
Well-Known Member
Well I remember watchin Patrick Troughton and Pertwee. Loved Pertwee, he was my Doctor. Then Tom came along with his talent. After that David and Matt. Best eps were Peledon and the Spiders. Also Ark in Space. Any ep with the Master old or new. Ack the Terror of the Autons and that tiny plastic doll that came alive in the car! This was a fantastic time for sci fi for me. Doctor Who, The Goodies and Monkey five nights a week in the evening
About 90% of the movies in the sci-fi/comic/fantasy genre to come out in the past 10 years disagree. Including, (ironically enough) a movie with Superman flying out of costume and the Lone Ranger shown without his mask.
edit: but those aren't the best examples. Better examples would be two of the most iconic villains from classic sci fi. First: Klingons. Arguably THE most iconic classic sci fi villain, modeled after cold war communists (and they were not subtle about that...I was going to say they did everything but come out and say Klingons are like communists, but in one classic episode they pretty much did say that). Communists in brown face with big Stalin eyebrows. Then one day they changed. Not just the look, but pretty much the entire social structure and character of the race. And no one said anything until about 100 years later one guy asked why they look completely different and the answer was simply "We do not discuss it." And no one ever asked again.
The other one was Cylons, which they DID keep the same basic look, but relegated them to a lesser role to the new updated cylons.
The point is, not only can it be done, but has been done. many times, successfully. It's not theoretical anymore.
I'm not saying the show is bad. It's become beloved by a whole new generation of fans. But they did miss a big opportunity and that hurt it some.
Last edited:
Both movies also end up with Superman in his cape and the Lone Ranger in his mask. They're origin stories. Hulk is big and green, Hawkeye still shoots arrows, Nick Fury still has that stupid eye patch, Spiderman is still his blue and red. etc.
All of these characters are recognizable as themselves. They have to be. So does the Dalek. Does this mean the original look was great? No. But it's iconic and they have to maintain that. Look at the uproar that happened when they came out with the redesigned humpback Daleks.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2
JD
Master Member
Well, even with all that said.. as Orange Blend said: Supes still wears the cape, the Ranger still has mask. Klingons made an appearance in seven ST:TOS episodes and even then, it was a series that (barely) lasted three seasons (and reruns) - yes, it was iconic; but, I think one could argue that ST truly grew and the Klingon became what they are after TOS (there is even backstory to explain the different appearance - imo, not such a good explanation). The original Cylon - again, a one (two if you count BSG 1980) season series...
Doctor Who decided to respect the legacy of the Dalek design (heck, the TARDIS is still a police box - I don't think there are many of those around anymore). Even the "humpback" Dalek is still the basic Dalek design. (Correct me if I'm wrong) The Dalek had a strong reaction when it appeared on Doctor Who and it's design is well recognized... even Peter Jackson owns a Dalek or two and (when and if it happens) has agreed to direct and episode of DW in exchange for a Dalek prop.
Doctor Who decided to respect the legacy of the Dalek design (heck, the TARDIS is still a police box - I don't think there are many of those around anymore). Even the "humpback" Dalek is still the basic Dalek design. (Correct me if I'm wrong) The Dalek had a strong reaction when it appeared on Doctor Who and it's design is well recognized... even Peter Jackson owns a Dalek or two and (when and if it happens) has agreed to direct and episode of DW in exchange for a Dalek prop.
Last edited:
p51
Sr Member
This is like 'old school or prequel Star Wars,' in that your response will certainly depend on the age of the respondent.
For me, Tom Baker was THE Doctor and always will be. Sure, the budget made those episodes look like a high school made those shows, but there was a simplicity to those seasons that appeal to me very much. And Baker had just the mix of arrogance, charm and whimsy to make the character memorable.
Genesis of the Daleks will always be one of my favorite DW eiposdes of all time. Most of the eiposdes with Baker and Liz Sladen (rest her soul) will always bring a smile to my face when they come on PBS on Saturday nights around here...
For me, Tom Baker was THE Doctor and always will be. Sure, the budget made those episodes look like a high school made those shows, but there was a simplicity to those seasons that appeal to me very much. And Baker had just the mix of arrogance, charm and whimsy to make the character memorable.
Genesis of the Daleks will always be one of my favorite DW eiposdes of all time. Most of the eiposdes with Baker and Liz Sladen (rest her soul) will always bring a smile to my face when they come on PBS on Saturday nights around here...
Last edited by a moderator:
JD
Master Member
They sure don't appear to.
Victor3
Sr Member
I guess they decided the spinning thing was more important. I will try to keep that from bugging me as I get caught up on S08.
Aha - rationalization: The 4th Doctor's wood console room had no time rotor column at all!
Honestly, I think the Series 5-7.5 console room was my favorite of the lot. It had such a bizarre sense of perspective trickery to it, really playing with the bigger-on-the-inside dimensionality of the Tardis. I was very disappointed with the War Doctor's console. They really should have used the old-school Adventure in Space & Time set.
Aha - rationalization: The 4th Doctor's wood console room had no time rotor column at all!
Honestly, I think the Series 5-7.5 console room was my favorite of the lot. It had such a bizarre sense of perspective trickery to it, really playing with the bigger-on-the-inside dimensionality of the Tardis. I was very disappointed with the War Doctor's console. They really should have used the old-school Adventure in Space & Time set.
