Thinking about a 3D printer....

So I posted earlier today about the chances of getting a Star-Lord helmet ordered, received and prepped in time for Halloween. The chances seemed slim, given how high demand is and how full the runs are. Two gentlemen made the very sensible suggestion of getting it 3D printed using Helagek's file - either printing it myself or hiring out locally.

I thought about it, and thought about how, over the years, I have often waited and waited for someone to produce a piece I really wanted, and how it would have been so much easier to just make it myself. The problem was, I never really had (and still do not have) a ton of time to spend making things from scratch. And I never got into doing pep.

Let me make clear that I know almost nothing about 3D printing. However, I do have the financial means to buy a printer and afford the associated costs (material). I still do not have the time to become skilled in CAD (at least, not quickly), but if I can learn how to take someone else's high-quality file (with their permission, of course) and produce pieces with the printer, that'd be OK with me.

I mean, I gotta start somewhere, right?

So I have two questions for the RPF's 3D-printing community:

1. Are CAD files - quality, screen-accurate files - readily available around here, or do people tend to keep them close to their chest? I mean, I totally understand why they would keep the files proprietary - to maximize their return on investment (i.e., lots of runs) - but if top-notch files are hard to come by, it kinda thwarts my goal of producing pieces without becoming a CAD artist.

2. If files were readily available, what kind of printer would you get, if money weren't an object? MakerBot? Which one? Replicator? Z18?

3. What resources (books, web sites) might you suggest for a rank novice like myself to get brought up to speed on this stuff?

Or maybe there's something I am forgetting that makes this whole idea stupid to its core?

Any and all constructive advice and suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you!

1. There's a model on Thingiverse for one. Not totally screen accurate but looks good for a costume. Unless you get the Repilcator Z18 with its massive build size, you'll need to slice the model in smaller pieces.

2. I actually bought myself a 3D printer for prop making yesterday. After a load of reading around, I got the Ultimaker 2. One of the more expensive models, but more than worth it for the print bed size, speed and print quality.

3. Printing something large like a helmet in time for Halloween for a self confessed novice might be difficult. Depending on the printer, it can take a few weeks to set up the printer to get high quality prints. Another option might be to use Helagak's pepakura file http://www.therpf.com/f78/star-lord-helmet-accessories-helagak-208660/

If you're still interested in 3D printing, have a search around the forum for 3D printed project to get an idea of how they're designed and put together.

When you say money is not an object, you could spend $100,000 plus on a massive pro-level 3d printer

ive got several makerbots and I don't recommend the new replicator at all. It's been down for repairs more than it's been operational and is on it's way back to MBI for repairs... And that's bad because I have a print queue stacking up to print parts for people!

I'm toying with the idea of buying a lulzbot next.

1. Are CAD files - quality, screen-accurate files - readily available around here, or do people tend to keep them close to their chest? I mean, I totally understand why they would keep the files proprietary - to maximize their return on investment (i.e., lots of runs) - but if top-notch files are hard to come by, it kinda thwarts my goal of producing pieces without becoming a CAD artist.

Not usually. There are plenty of files out there that are ready to print, but not necessarily always what you want ie. helmets etc. There is no guarantee that a file you receive from a person (whoever it is) will print flawlessly or at all in some cases - you really do have to put some time in to be aware of the ups and downs of the files themselves.

For instance, I have used a game mesh file from a website, converted it, pulled it into a program, changed it slightly, exported it as a print file (STL files) and then printed it, with no issues whatsoever. If I did this on something complex, I am 100% certain it wouldn't work as smoothly as that luckily did.

2. If files were readily available, what kind of printer would you get, if money weren't an object? MakerBot? Which one? Replicator? Z18?

I got a Da Vinci 1.0 - I didn't want to spend a lot of money on my first venture. Fair play if money's not a problem. Get the best reviewed one out there!

3. What resources (books, web sites) might you suggest for a rank novice like myself to get brought up to speed on this stuff?

All over the net, but also starting to mess around with the printer itself helps you pick up quickly. Generally, a "closed" stl file is required to produce Gcode (printer uses this) via a form of slicing software - the slicing software (example Slic3r) cuts the stl file into multiple layers depending on the parameters that have been set. The printer interprets Gcode and produces the print. The printer bed/heat/extruder heat etc all affect how the print lays down the plastic etc, depending on if it is ABS or PLA etc.

I'd read around a lot before committing to a purchase, even if money isn't a problem - no sense wasting it.

Also - I also have very little time - but do not assume that you can walk upto your printer, click print and walk away. It's never as simple as that I've found so far. Generally if I print something, I set aside at least an hour or two to start the print. Sometimes once started a small print can be done in 10 minutes - larger prints take a lot longer. I sometimes stay with the printer, sometimes I leave it, but check regularly. It's a moving part machine with high temperature, I don't fancy waiting to smell smoke before checking everything is ok!

OK, OK, fair enough. From my admittedly brief perusal of what's out there, price isn't an object for a consumer/prosumer-level printer.

I guess one sticking point with me is long-term support. I would hate to drop the $$$ on something like this (and possibly a protection plan) and then have the company disappear, leaving me holding my dick. I would feel better with a more established company where I have more confidence that they'll be around for a while.

Why Lulzbot vs.something else like Ultimaker?

Daniel Nelms said:

When you say money is not an object, you could spend $100,000 plus on a massive pro-level 3d printer ��

ive got several makerbots and I don't recommend the new replicator at all. It's been down for repairs more than it's been operational and is on it's way back to MBI for repairs... And that's bad because I have a print queue stacking up to print parts for people!

I'm toying with the idea of buying a lulzbot next.

Click to expand...

squirk said:

OK, OK, fair enough. From my admittedly brief perusal of what's out there, price isn't an object for a consumer/prosumer-level printer.

I guess one sticking point with me is long-term support. I would hate to drop the $$$ on something like this (and possibly a protection plan) and then have the company disappear, leaving me holding my dick. I would feel better with a more established company where I have more confidence that they'll be around for a while.

Why Lulzbot vs.something else like Ultimaker?

Click to expand...

Several reasons, lulzbot is made here in the USA so I can get parts and support easily without international shipping (slower/more expensive).
When I've called them to ask questions they answer the phone with a live human being for which I was amazed. I don't own their product but they still took the time to answer all my questions.
The taz has a larger build area, seems to support a wider array of materials, and they sell each part of the machine separately at low cost so that I can fix something when it breaks. That being said I have a lot of experience with 3d printers so I am comfortable fixing things myself.

Now if I lived in Europe I would probably be more inclined to go with the ultimaker because of location/ease of getting parts. Nothing sucks more than having a multi thousand dollar machine down for several weeks because your waiting on parts to come in.

Daniel Nelms said:

Now if I lived in Europe I would probably be more inclined to go with the ultimaker because of location/ease of getting parts. Nothing sucks more than having a multi thousand dollar machine down for several weeks because your waiting on parts to come in.

Click to expand...

That's the exact reason I bought my Ultimaker 2. So much easier to get hold of them and spares in England compared to the Lulzbot.

squirk said:

1. Are CAD files - quality, screen-accurate files - readily available around here, or do people tend to keep them close to their chest? I mean, I totally understand why they would keep the files proprietary - to maximize their return on investment (i.e., lots of runs) - but if top-notch files are hard to come by, it kinda thwarts my goal of producing pieces without becoming a CAD artist.

Click to expand...

I am slowly teaching myself 3d Studio Max to get the most out of my 3d Printer. I will say that thingiverse, as mentioned before, is a great place to find a bunch of free, printable models. I will also share that in my experience on The RPF, messaging people and asking if they'd be willing to share their models for personal use only is almost never successful, barring one exception where the individual was truly generous. Many people who produce the models for printing prefer not to share the files so that they can start a project run and make some profit off of their work, which I entirely understand, respect, and support. It is a point of frustration for me, though.

2. If files were readily available, what kind of printer would you get, if money weren't an object? MakerBot? Which one? Replicator? Z18?

Click to expand...

MakerBot is garbage, in my opinion. I regularly have to wrestle with a MakerBot Replicator 2 that has been upgraded with hundreds of dollars of aftermarket parts to try and improve its reliability, and it's still more art than science. I bought myself a Makergear M2 for home use, and it has been the best investment. The M2 is reliable, prints excellent quality parts, and the support that Makergear offers is hands-down the best I've ever had to deal with. The only downside to the M2 is that you'll get the best results from it by springing for 3rd party slicing software Simplify3d, which was a bit of a hidden cost. Nevertheless, I will always sing the M2's praises if given half the chance. I think it was somewhere around $1,750 when I bought it for a pre-assembled kit that's ready to go right out of the box. Absolutely worth it, in my opinion.

3. What resources (books, web sites) might you suggest for a rank novice like myself to get brought up to speed on this stuff?

Click to expand...

It really depends on the software you're using. You can get an educational version of 3d Studio Max without any restrictions for absolutely free off their site, and I've been learning by following the hundreds of video tutorials you can find on Youtube for whatever specific thing you're trying to do (i.e. spline modelling, polygonal modelling).

Also keep in mind the media you want to print with. Most of them use plastics (PLA and ABS) but you can now get parts printed with stainless steel, gold and other metals from shapeways. I would start out small (like I did) and get a printer that is not that expensive and then once you learn more about the printing process you will know what to look for on your next printer.

I have printed on a handful of printers over the past couple years, right now my main machine is a Lulzbot AO-100 and I am very happy with it. I have thought about buying one of the newer Lulzbots for myself, they are pretty much the only printers on the market that I would want to own. Stay away from the Cube 3D printer.

A couple things I want to say that I don't see mentioned a lot:

3D printers are not toys, they are tools just like any other tool in your workshop. Like any machine they will require maintenance, so while you say you "know almost nothing about 3D printing", you need to realize you will have to learn about them. You can not buy a 3D printer, unbox it, and never have to mess with it.

The other thing is that 3D printing is not a magic bullet. You won't be able to download a file, press "Print", and several hours later have a perfect prop waiting for you. Think of them as making a good base, but you will still need to sand and fill and do all of the usual steps after initially sculpting a prop.

squirk said:

if I can learn how to take someone else's high-quality file (with their permission, of course) and produce pieces with the printer, that'd be OK with me.

Click to expand...

If the file is released under Creative Commons (which I believe all of the files on Thingiverse are) then you don't need permission to do anything.

squirk said:

1. Are CAD files - quality, screen-accurate files - readily available around here, or do people tend to keep them close to their chest?

Click to expand...

Depends a lot of the individual people. Personally, as someone who has spent many years in the open source community, I tend to really hate it when people who don't want to share information. There are some files available, some better than others. What I often do is commission out to experienced 3D modelers, especially when I need something done really well.

squirk said:

3. What resources (books, web sites) might you suggest for a rank novice like myself to get brought up to speed on this stuff?

Click to expand...

Check out /r/3dprinting on Reddit, they have a lot of information there. Hackaday is probably pretty good, but that's not 3D printer specific.

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I realize these are complicated machines and that even the most user-friendly of them will require a learning curve. By no means do I expect to unbox the printer, load a spool, upload a file, walk away and come back with a perfect prop in a few hours/days.

On the other hand, as I said before, my time is limited in terms of how quickly I can educate myself on how to wrangle the printer and printing process efficiently. I will "get there" eventually, but I would also like a printer with which I can still be productive in the meantime. In other words, I'd like something I can grow into.

Makerbot is the big mainstream name and most reviews tout its user-friendliness. And the huge build area of the Z18 is appealing for larger props and helmet components. And, as Nelms said, it's in the U.S., so service might be a bit more speedy than Ultimaker. But if it's constantly breaking down, as some have intimated, that's aggravation I do not need.

Based on the videos I have seen and the specs I have read (but feel free to correct me if I am off-base here), the Ultimaker has a much finer resolution on the prints. Surfaces seem much smoother and uniform than the Makerbot prints. But again, the overseas service would appear to have the potential to be pricey and slow.

The Lulzbot is U.S.-based so service should be better than Ultimaker in terms of price and speed, and according to Nelms, better than Makerbot in terms of service quality. But after checking out their site, I'm not sure this is the best printer for me to start with. With the open source and modular kit design, it seems like the Lulzbot target market is experienced and sophisticated people like yourselves, not me. I'm sure I would learn a lot more and a lot more quickly by building my printer off a base kit, but my time is scarce enough just learning how to run good prints, let alone assembling a build.

i've yet to check out Makergear or Da Vinci, but I will do so soon. Thanks for the suggestions and advice!

Are you wanting to print a few specific things on a rare occasion, or are you planning on printing frequently? If the former, then you might be better off going with a company which sells finished prints. Shapeways is probably the most well known, but if you search around you can find some amazing smaller shops. I 3D printed the new Ultron helmet from a small shop in Florida called TheObjectShop, and the guy I emailed was responsive and easy to work with. But most importantly, the print I got back was amazing, and I definitely see myself going with them for larger things in the future.

I've honestly no idea when it comes to "official support" from any of the printer manufacturers. Whenever I have problems with the Lulzbot, I just load up Google and 9 times out of 10 my problem is something someone else already had and solved. (This goes back to the idea of an open community, and not keeping secrets.) I have heard good things about the Utimaker but not actually seen one used first hand. Both the Lulzbot and the Ultimaker are based off of the Reprap, and there is a wellspring of information available about that platform. Again, another benefit of an open source community.

Georgia Tech's invention studio has something like a dozen Replicator 2's and I've had a chance to work with them a few times. To say they "constantly break down" may be a bit of an exaggeration - as I said before, a 3D printer is like any other machine, and it will need repairs and maintenance and will break down from time to time. I don't know if the Replicators have any sort of inherit issues which cause them to fail more than any others, but be aware that no matter what printer you do buy, you are going to have to spend some time leveling the bed or playing with extrusion settings or any other half dozen things you have to do with a 3D printer just to print properly. And that doesn't include actual problems - axes skipping or drifting or sticking, a problem with the extruder head or heated bed.

I'm not trying to dissuade you or insult your lack of knowledge on the subject or anything like that. I just like to point out to people who are new to the 3D printing game that, whether you want to "get into 3D printers" or not, buying one means you are going to have to get intimate with the machine and the technology if you want it produce the kind of results that you see online and make you want to buy one in the first place. You can give two identical machines to two different people, and one might say it was a waste of money and the other will tell you how it changed the game for them. It all comes down to how much time and energy you are willing to put into keeping the machine happy.

You've said several times now that your time is limited, so I think you may not be the target audience for most at-home, hobby grade printers. I would hate for you to drop a couple grand, only to be unhappy in a few months time because it isn't working right and you can't spend the time you need to spend to make it work excellently.

Thanks. I don't feel insulted about my lack of knowledge. That is exactly why I started this thread - to vet the idea. And you are right - the main question is whether or not I will need the occasional print vs. printing frequently.

Thr Star-Lord helmet and Nelms' suggestion are what spurred the idea, but I could go back several years and think of repeated instances where being able to print at home would have saved me a considerable amount of trouble. Most recently, I had an issue with the ears on a raw Thomas Bangalter Daft Punk helmet where a print would have really helped me out. Pieces-parts for my Boba Webley conversion. Greeblies for a CT rifle. Hinges for an IM helmet. And so on.

Granted, I would need files for those pieces in order to print them. Some files were available, some I would have had to have created myself from scratch or from a scan. But I would have had that issue whether I was printing myself or outsourcing.

Never having seen or held a 3D-printed piece, perhaps I should outsource the SL helmet and reserve judgment until I can examine a finished print in "real life". Who knows? I might be unimpressed and prefer pieces created by traditional methods like casting/CNC/vacuforming/etc.

Thanks again!

No problem! I am passionate about 3D printing so I'm happy to share my experience - especially when it comes to 3D printing and prop making/cosplay.

If you have never held a 3D printed part in your hands, I would definitely suggest you do that first. Where are you located? There might be a makerspace / hackerspace in your area that does 3D printing that you can go visit and check out. As I said before, they are far from a magic bullet and any print will require some level of finishing and cleanup. The more expensive the printer and the higher fidelity of the print, the less of it you will have to employ. I have a build post on my blog where I go through the beginning steps of printing on a hobby grade printer, which you might find insightful.

There are several folks nearby based on 3Dhubs.com. I may send out for a print of one of the smaller pieces in Helagek's SL helmet components, just to see. If I don't like, I'm not out very much $$$ or time. If I like, then that's one less piece to commission to complete the helmet.

Thanks for all your feedback!

Not meaning to hijack the thread - but not wanting to start a new one since this is here ...

I've been keeping tabs on printers; it's about time to start thinking of getting one. I *have* seen and held 3D prints; they continue to improve!

Any recommendations based on the following?

Here's what's important to me:

Ability to print with different materials (ABS, nylon, etc.)
Adequate printing area (10" x 10" x 10" or better)
Budget: < $1500 (but I'd go slightly higher for higher quality printing or better features).
Use: not regular use, but I'd probably print enough items to justify the cost, as opposed to going to a print shop.
Willingness to "get to know" the machine: I love to tinker - but I also like results. I don't want to spend a month setting up, calibrating, testing, print one item then spend another month re-calibrating, etc. I'm not adverse to building a kit - but it should be a complete kit, not something with a print head, platform and an instruction sheet (you go source your other parts).

Any thoughts on the Rostock MAX v2?

I realize this is *very* subjective; almost like asking what the best flavor is, but it's so much better to hear the good and bad from RPF members.

That is a rather large build area. It is haveing some teathing issues but the Rigidbot fits your description. It just finished shipping domestic orders and last I heard has a small supply ready to go for purchase from the website but don't count on that. There is a large g+ comunity for it. It is bran spank'n new and was long delayed from kickstarter so do your research first. http://www.inventapart.com/rigidbot.php

If you are an avid tinkerer I think you can just about get the printrbot simple to 10x10x something with printed upgrades form thingeverse etc. as well as a third party company now selling print volume upgrades for the printrbot simple metal. http://matrix-precision.myshopify.com/collections/all

On a side note if you plan on making things that big just be aware you will need to research all the anti warping techniqes as it gets way worse the larger you go. That is why they have an enclosed heated build area on the new large size makerbot.