Wonder Woman

I have said it before and I will say it again. This movie will be a hit and it will be good for one reason. They are just redoing Captain America the First Avenger. I really hope I am wrong and it is a good movie on its own. I really like Gal Godot and as a fellow Jew I really want her to do well. But the heads at DC have got to take their heads out of their butts.

Completely agree about Gal Godot and she is beating on Imperial Germans and not Nazis. Wish it was set in WW2.
I hope it is better than Captain America TFA. Always thought TFA was half a movie. The montage after he gets his "uniform and shield" should have been more to add to the story and development of Cap as a leader.

This is the only offering from DC that I'm considering watching in the theater all others I'll wait until they show up in the discounted bin of unloved movies at Best Buy.
 
I have said it before and I will say it again. This movie will be a hit and it will be good for one reason. They are just redoing Captain America the First Avenger. I really hope I am wrong and it is a good movie on its own. I really like Gal Godot and as a fellow Jew I really want her to do well. But the heads at DC have got to take their heads out of their butts.


So it will only be successful because of a similarity to CA: TFA?

How do you figure that one out then? I love TFA - it's second to bottom in box office, above Incredible Hulk. We've also just seen someone saying TFA is half a movie - so clearly it isn't universally well received either. So how is it that WW will only succeed because of it?

When was the last film you saw set in WWI? Which is, believe it or not, different to WWII. ;) And a tent pole franchise film at that? It's a smart move story wise, I think. It's disconnected for the origin to play out, but there will be heavy stakes, and it still connects to the larger universe. Modern audiences probably know very little about WWI - that can be evidenced probably by the amount of people that will refer to WW beating up Nazi's. So it's something "fresh" almost, too. Depending on how heavy they lean into it (The war to end all wars..) it will be some big stakes - especially as most likely, Ares is stoking the fires of that war for everything he can squeeze out of it.

Of course there are similarities - but did you expect Doctor Strange to succeed because he's essentially magical Iron Man? Or every Superhero film to succeed because The Avengers did really well at the Box Office? Probably not...

I'm just looking forward to it. Simple as.
 
Fawbish FIrst off I am very aware of the difference between WW1 and WW2. Secondarily if you want to bust my balls I don't mind but I think (on the surface anyway) this is an easy comparison to make. My main point being (and I'm sorry if it didn't come through in my last post) is that DC execs are playing catch up and I don't think we will argue that. So IMO they are looking at something that worked in Marvel's world building and just using it instead of laying their own ground work. There is something to be said about familiarity. Many people (I believe) will draw the same comparison and see this movie based on what I have already said.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another reason I want to see WW in the theater, is that is it bright and colorful.
An interesting juxtaposition since WW1, trench warfare and chemical weapons are all really bleak subjects plus all the film from that time is black and white.

And give people a break if they really didn't pay attention to the trailer and assume that it is WW verse the Nazi. Isn't that her historic foe?.... Come on they had Linda Carter verses the Nazi in the 70s.
 
@Fawbish FIrst off I am very aware of the difference between WW1 and WW2. Secondarily if you want to bust my balls I don't mind but I think (on the surface anyway) this is an easy comparison to make. My main point being (and I'm sorry if it didn't come through in my last post) is that DC execs are playing catch up and I don't think we will argue that. So IMO they are looking at something that worked in Marvel's world building and just using it instead of laying their own ground work. There is something to be said about familiarity. Many people (I believe) will draw the same comparison and see this movie based on what I have already said.

I know chief, was just being silly. I'm not out to bust anything, its friendly discussion at the end of the day.

However, I don't agree on your overall point at all.

Wonder Woman's comic origin is WWII, no? So if they were doing what you say, they would surely choose to keep the WWII story - it would be even closer to the comics heritage. But they haven't. They've gone with another story, another time period. The similarities in terms of the overall film end at the fact it is a World War, and all that War entails, really.

Of course there will be a small band of soldiers who come together with her to fight through an engagement etc - we've seen that in the photograph - that is a trope in many, many movies that include War.

I know what you're getting at, I understand it. As there is an obvious "easy" comparison of War, but to use that as the single reason Wonder Woman may succeed... :confused

If it ends up being familiar on a much deeper level to TFA after release, and is then successful, we'll come back and discuss the story beats in WW that didn't influence the success I suppose.

Maybe we just run in different circles, but I doubt many people at all (and sure there may be some, I wasn't arguing that) will see WW because of Captain America - and certainly not in enough numbers to influence a "successful" box office, whatever that may be.
 
Another reason I want to see WW in the theater, is that is it bright and colorful.
An interesting juxtaposition since WW1, trench warfare and chemical weapons are all really bleak subjects plus all the film from that time is black and white.

And give people a break if they really didn't pay attention to the trailer and assume that it is WW verse the Nazi. Isn't that her historic foe?.... Come on they had Linda Carter verses the Nazi in the 70s.

We are posting on a board who's almost exclusive userbase is made up of film/geek/pop culture aficionados. I used to think it was the bread and butter to be interested in the detail and understand whats going on in a film.

I also think for the amount of crap the society we inhabit gives film studios, actors, directors because "we know better" etc it is only fair to expect that same audience to be able to comprehend stuff correctly?

I know they were her original foe, mentioned that in previous post :thumbsup
 
We are posting on a board who's almost exclusive userbase is made up of film/geek/pop culture aficionados. I used to think it was the bread and butter to be interested in the detail and understand whats going on in a film.

I also think for the amount of crap the society we inhabit gives film studios, actors, directors because "we know better" etc it is only fair to expect that same audience to be able to comprehend stuff correctly?

I agree which is why some of our discussions here become so engaging.

But there are the rhetorical questions/debates about suspension of disbelief, how scientific or historically accurate a story should be and then the level of special effects and production value and the resulting effect on the individual audience members ability to enjoy the movie.

I love TFA but to me it is still half a movie.
The Rocketeer is so much fun and belongs on the big screen but I grit my teeth when I see the tow cable during the Gee-Bee crash.

Just like in WW. If you are going to impersonate a German don't wear a Blue Max. It is like our Medal of Honor. I think their military can see the character as a fake but from the trailer, who knows, I hope the story can support it.
 
Well well well, what did I see at the theatre today before my film ? They're organising a "premiere" for Wonder Woman on June 6 (still after the original release day) ... for ladies only ! The rest of us will have to wait end of June... I might be wrong to feel that way, some might say that men deserve this, but that just BS.
 
why would anyone feel men deserve not to see a movie lead by a woman a few weeks early?

SMH...

same kind of silliness in the last woman led movie that needs to stop.
that kind of stuff WILL turn people who never had an opinion before, or looked forward to films like this, against these types of movies.
 
Well well well, what did I see at the theatre today before my film ? They're organising a "premiere" for Wonder Woman on June 6 (still after the original release day) ... for ladies only ! The rest of us will have to wait end of June... I might be wrong to feel that way, some might say that men deserve this, but that just BS.
Too bad it wasnt set during WW2, a D-Day premiere would be kinda cool.

And I think in the sense of the differing wars being WW1 and WW2, to be honest, WW2 was just so much more interesting, and thats what everyone thinks about when they think of a "World War". I dont know much about Wonder Womans history, but from the circles that Im a part of, a lot of people just think its a rip off of Captain America, except with a woman. Keep in mind those are average joes, and they dont know the comic book lore, but we all know here on the forums thats who the studios want to go see this; average joes. So I understand where you are both coming from. I think the current slate of DC movies put such a bad taste in my mouth (sorry Fawbish) but I dont really care to see this. Im not even sure why exactly. The trailers look pretty good, the color scheme is better than the grimdark stuff we are used to, a reference to the Donner Superman, a kick ass riff... But I dont know. I wish I knew honestly. :unsure
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Like you said, you didnt like the current slate of DC movies. And while i didnt hate em as much as others i also have some worries for this universe, especially after suicide squad. The more i think back to that movie, the more i hate it. so ofc the trust issue is there wether they can actually deliver something good...
 
I'd put her in present day and smack dab in the middle of the fight in some of the most backwards azz nations on Earth that allow women to be treated so horribly. Spit in their eye with this great character. Alas, way too much to expect a studio to be that courageous.
 
According to her creator "Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda". Cap and WW battled the contemporary and real enemy of that time.

If we are to expect an updated character for our times then it should be just as CessnaDriver wrote.

The only thing that has come close was the first Ironman movie and even more Team America for battling the real world enemy.
 
What she was when she was created isn't necessarily what she represents now though... The dude was a famous bondage fetishist and radical hardcore feminist who wanted to push his view of a matriarchal society... Over the years and through multiple writers she evolved into something more, timeless.
I don't think we need her to be propaganda for the US, I don't want her to be frankly, we've got enough BS blatant propaganda war movies coming from hollywood, don't need that in the comic book films.
Ultimately, she's supposed to be the one who "fights for those who cannot", a force for good, opposed to whatever threaten humans. Doesn't matter if it's Ares, Nazis, Zombies, talibants or ISIS, that's frankly not the point for me. And also an icon for equality and a heroine girls (and boys) can look up to. And a total bad ass while she's at it.
 
If they want to set up a WW character that is extremely distrustful of man's world, WWI is actually a pretty interesting choice. Fighting along side America in WWII had a pretty clear morality to it.

WWI was a bunch of modern nations fighting because we just couldn't be bothered not to. I can see how that would seem pretty grim to an outsider.
 
Ultimately, she's supposed to be the one who "fights for those who cannot", a force for good, opposed to whatever threaten humans. Doesn't matter if it's Ares, Nazis, Zombies, talibants or ISIS, that's frankly not the point for me. And also an icon for equality and a heroine girls (and boys) can look up to. And a total bad ass while she's at it.

Well said. This. THIS is what Diana is and this is what I'm hoping doesn't get lost in translation to film.
 
Well said. This. THIS is what Diana is and this is what I'm hoping doesn't get lost in translation to film.

These are some of my favorite moments that, I feel, exemplify what Diana is to most people now:

Warrior and Mentor

Champion for those who cannot fight for themselves:
http://imgur.com/gallery/0poOi

Able to show compassion and forgiveness (This is from the Rebirth series and these are terrorists that she and Steve helped capture)
WWRebirth12_14.PNG
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't think that anyone is disputing "the defend the weak and helpless" side of her character or the hopeful nature of the stories that have evolved since her creation.
All things have to grow and expand or they die. Whether it be a story, product line, organism or a civilization.

It is good that she has expanded beyond her propagandist nature but we should not negate that origin.

Also, WW1 makes no sense if the supposed change is to be bold.
The suffragette movement suspended their activities in 1914, supported the war and helped advance woman's rights in doing so.
Yet WW2 still had sexism and racism. They still existed, as codified by law, until the civil rights movement in the 1960's and continued in open practice into the 70's.

Since there are places in the world, today, where just by being a woman is a hazard IE They have no rights not even the right to exist if they cross the male members of their own family. How is rewinding the clock a hundred years bold?

Jack Kirby was bold having Cap fighting Nazism a year before Pearl Harbor. William Marston was bold writing WW when women were only an auxiliary corps or nurses for the US military.
We may not want WW to be a 21st century version of "Why we fight" but setting her against Imperial Germany is not bold. It is a cop-out.
 
Well the reason is actually most likely a tactical one that has nothing to do with what WW represents, they simply needed a way to tell the story in a contained environment, apart from the current DCEU. The easy way is to change the time period, and since Cap already did WWII, they chose WWI...
 
Well the reason is actually most likely a tactical one that has nothing to do with what WW represents, they simply needed a way to tell the story in a contained environment, apart from the current DCEU. The easy way is to change the time period, and since Cap already did WWII, they chose WWI...
Not to mention the fact that the character at least historically also wears the Stars and Stripes.
 
This thread is more than 6 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top