Kermit research thread

EyeofSauron

Master Member
ok, after about a week of research, i am still not a lot smarter about this than i was before.

so i turn to the allmighty rpf, cause several people have a kermit of their own, so maybe someone can help me out :)

what i have so far:
there are 2(or 3, if you count the glorified sock puppet pattern) patterns for kermit, that are more or less all there is
one is from the old toys'R'us plushy, and one is from the mr posable photo puppet. (see attachments for file)

the fabric used for kermit is called antron fleece, but its expensive and hard to find. Blizzard or Polar fleece are suitable replacements (alltho around here in europe, i will just have to take whatever i can get)

the sewing technique for hiding seams is called a henson, or puppet stitch (see here: The Puppet Stitch or Henson Stitch - YouTube )

for the body, use a pattern similar to a football, but with both edges cut off. use 1/2" foam for this

so far, all the basics are covered.



but here is what im still having trouble with:

The MR pattern has a foam head inlay, alltho im not sure if kermit has any foam in his head on a normal hand puppet.
for the patterns, if you use henson stitch, do you cut it out with a bit of an edge, and fold in the edge?
are the arms attached via sewing, or are they attached with doll joints?
is the collar the same material as the body, just a different color?
why dont use puppeteers cotton for stuffing? (cant remember the name they used for stuffing, just curious)

cant think of any more questions right now, but those are the questions i can think of right now.

any help would be appreciated :)

/edit: thx to trooper_trents help, i figured out te pattern
still need the mouth plate and the collar to figure out, and obviously the body pattern.

/edit 2: mouthplate and collar are added
 

Attachments

  • Kermie.pdf
    916.4 KB · Views: 3,619
  • 1296208247_2bd9ac64ce_b.jpg
    1296208247_2bd9ac64ce_b.jpg
    344.4 KB · Views: 2,911
  • collar.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 3,368
  • kermit pattern.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 5,067
  • mouthplate.jpg
    643 KB · Views: 2,015
Last edited:
Really don't think there's any foam in the old Muppet show Kermit head, he was way to flexible when he gulped or did the grossed out face.
 
Kermit's head is not stuffed. This allowed Jim Henson to have incredible flexibility with Kermit and is what gave him such great expressions. The Henson stitch is sewn with the edges touching, not folded in. By touching the edges, you are able to pull the stitches tightly and essentially hide them. It's a great stitch but very time consuming. There are several youtube videos showing the process. And lastly... The original Antron Fleece that was used on the Muppets is no longer made. They still make "Antron Fleece", it's just not what it used to be. It's not as thick as the original. I bought 10 yards of it and use it sparingly. In my opinion, it just doesn't have the "soul" of the original. I'll give it this though... it does have a sheen that you can't get with any other fabric and it dyes beautifully.
BTW, I usually make my own patterns but needed a Kermit in a hurry for a school project for my son and found one on ebay. it was NOT inexpensive however.
 
Yes Kermits head was all Jim, all of Jims hand that is.

TrooperTrent is one of our experts in making Muppets I am sure he will chime in when he sees this

Really don't think there's any foam in the old Muppet show Kermit head, he was way to flexible when he gulped or did the grossed out face.
 
Paging TrooperTrent! Paging TrooperTrent! :lol

LOL

"The MR pattern has a foam head inlay, alltho im not sure if kermit has any foam in his head on a normal hand puppet."

Depends on what version you're doing. The foam head inlay is for the Photo model and just replaces the hand. The original was just the fleece and Henson's hand. You can see his knuckles on the nose area when making facial expressions. But, newer versions for the later movies do have a thin (probably cardboard) shell lining the inside to give him a more rigid nose. I dont like that though. Personal preference.

"for the patterns, if you use henson stitch, do you cut it out with a bit of an edge, and fold in the edge? "

The Henson stitch is done from the outside. You come out from under the fleece, go over the seam and back in the other side, then pull it tight to hide the seam. BUT current antron fleece is VERY forgiving and easy to hide the seams. So if you don't want to practice for months getting an even Henson stitch you can use a sewing machine. Trace your pattern on the backside of the fleece, then cut it out with about 1/8" or 1/4" inch hangover (called a seam allowance. Put the two pieces together, face to face with the two fleece sides touching. Sew it with a similar color thread on the traced line. Then cut off any extra allowance. You'll now have an inside out piece. Do the same for the body, arms, and legs. Then sew the neck to the body, and legs and arms to the body, trimming off any excess. Then just turn the whole thing inside out so that the fleece is facing out. You can then use a needle or safety pin to "Pick" the seams, loosening up a bit of the fleece around the seamlines to hide them.

"are the arms attached via sewing, or are they attached with doll joints?"

They are sewn onto the body in a ring. But you can just as easily use doll joints, hotglue the stuffed arms around the lip of the joint and push it through the inside foam of the body and snap together. Just make sure your batting isn't too tight so the shoulders will fold over correctly.

"is the collar the same material as the body, just a different color?"
No, the collar is the same material as the undersides of his feet. On the original it's more of a chamois or suede type material. I can't remember the name of it right now, but I'll look it up for you. Most people use a pea green fine pill felt.

"why dont use puppeteers cotton for stuffing? (cant remember the name they used for stuffing, just curious)"

Sweat and condensation. It'll cause the cotton to mildew and clump. Use polyester batting for stuffing throw pillows. It's synthetic.
 
Last edited:
thx for all the info!

another question i have, is: with classic kermit, did he have a mouth plate? cause with all the movement in the mouth, im not so sure.
also, i found this, which is supposed to be a better pattern, but i cant make anything of it, as im not quite sure what he means. laanguage barrier and stuff

The geometry of the head pattern is simpler than I originally guessed. The following advice doesn't include allowances for selvage. With very small ladder stitches, you'll only need a few millimeters anyway. Ignore the Master Replicas photo except in terms of basic proportions. The puppet head pattern is different.

Draw a 9 inch circle. Add a right-facing 115 degree pie wedge (think Pac Man). Round off the inner corner fairly generously. Rotate the entire drawing 45 degrees counter-clockwise. Draw a 6 x 2.25 inch rectangle tangent to the outside bottom of the circle. Offset it left of center by 3.75 inches. Blend the vertical edges of the rectangle upward into the circle. These curves should blend gracefully with high tension. This is an improvement over my dummy head above. This pattern will produce a higher "skull" and looser neck under the chin. The shape includes the 1/4 inch or so of overlap with the mouth plate.

The mouth plate is like a regular ellipse measuring 4.25 x 8 inches, but the ends should be pulled in to make them pointier. This might vary some depending on the Kermit model you're trying to create.

The typical 11-point collar starts as a half circle. The inner radius is 7.25 inches and the outer almost 13 inches. The notches should be cut leaving around 5/8 inch inside the collar.

Small adjustments might be needed here and there depending on how you craft your Kermit, but I believe this is very much in the right direction.
 
thx for all the info!

another question i have, is: with classic kermit, did he have a mouth plate? cause with all the movement in the mouth, im not so sure.
also, i found this, which is supposed to be a better pattern, but i cant make anything of it, as im not quite sure what he means. laanguage barrier and stuff

Yes, there was a mouth plate. It was probably either originally thin cardboard or some kind of thin plastic sheeting that allowed bending. But it is necessary to hold the position. I think I understand what he's talking about with the pattern. I'll try to draw out an example later.

Edit:

Here's what I understood for the head. The shapes are NOT accurate, just eyballed. Use exact measurements and degrees.
kermit.jpg

kermit2.jpg
 
Last edited:
the question is, is it 9" diameter or radius? cause offsetting it by 3.75 inches on a 9 " diameter willresult in this:
Unbenannt.png
each big square is 1 inch obv
 
sorry I wrote that wrong in my diagram. When I hear a 9" circle I think 9" circumference.

not sure.

what is the radius on a 9" Circumference circle. split that in have and see if it it makes sense with the length of your finger to your thumb web.

I thought diameter, because that would be a 4.5" radius which is approx. the right length for fingers to fit in.

If it is Diameter, maybe he means this? That doesn't look right to me though. I'm on a conference call at the moment so I can't break it down right now.

Unbenannt.png
 
Last edited:
maybe he means offset by ,75 inches, as its 6 inches long, and 3,75 is half +.75
only thing that makes sense to me

thats what that looks like:
Unbenannt.png

i hope its understandable what i mean.

you know, offset the middle by 3.75 from the corner, would mean offset the middle by .75.
hope that makes more sense than what i wrote above :D
 
lets see if this guy is onto something :) all the comments posted on his thread were something like - that pattern looks amazing etc
so im inclined to try it out.
only the thread was old, so no picture info etc unfortunately.

also, with the 8 inch elipse, would that basicly leave a half inch for the mouth/lip overlap part.
ive watched a few videos, people sew the inner mouth on with regular stitching, so im not sure if the henson stitch is usefull for the mouth stitching?
 
hot glue.
just dab a fine string around the edge of the mouth plate in small sections and push it down. That's what i do on all of mine. I'll try to find a picture of what it looks like. I put a fatter lip on mine than kermit. but you could do it the same way. Or if you use thin plastic, you could turn it wrongside out and sew it with a machine if you're careful.

izzy1.jpg
 
Last edited:
maybe he means offset by ,75 inches, as its 6 inches long, and 3,75 is half +.75
only thing that makes sense to me

thats what that looks like:
View attachment 254856

i hope its understandable what i mean.

you know, offset the middle by 3.75 from the corner, would mean offset the middle by .75.
hope that makes more sense than what i wrote above :D

Perfect timing for this! My daughter and I are getting ready to start another build and have gotten the supplies we need. So, I was using the MR autopsy pattern, but are we saying that this should be the head pattern?
 
with the 8 inch elipse, would that basicly leave a half inch for the mouth/lip overlap part.

not necessarily. The lip is determined by how deep you set the mouth plate into the whole. I think the .5" difference in size from the radius of the fleece vs the radius of the mouth piece is to give it some bevel around the lips.

So like the right image vs. the left image.
mouth.jpg
 
that makes a lot of sense :) im guessing it would be somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2 " for the lip probably.
well, i finished up the head pattern to size, i will upload in the first post. now i still need to figure out the body pattern :)


btw thx trooper_trent for the awesome help :)
 
Perfect timing for this! My daughter and I are getting ready to start another build and have gotten the supplies we need. So, I was using the MR autopsy pattern, but are we saying that this should be the head pattern?
well, im not sure if this should be the correct pattern, its just that he researched a lot but said he wouldnt post the pattern directly, so he posted the directions.

this was his first test draft of the puppet and i like how it looks:
View attachment 254918
and the pattern above is his modified one after he fixed what he wanted to change on the first draft (like more slack under the chin), so, alltho he hasnt posted any pictures, i am curious.
 
that makes a lot of sense :) im guessing it would be somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2 " for the lip probably.
well, i finished up the head pattern to size, i will upload in the first post. now i still need to figure out the body pattern :)


btw thx trooper_trent for the awesome help :)

From most of the pictures it looks like 1/4" at the tip of the mouth and widens out gradually to 1/2" at the corners of the mouth.

- - - Updated - - -

well, im not sure if this should be the correct pattern, its just that he researched a lot but said he wouldnt post the pattern directly, so he posted the directions.

this was his first test draft of the puppet and i like how it looks:
View attachment 254918
and the pattern above is his modified one after he fixed what he wanted to change on the first draft (like more slack under the chin), so, alltho he hasnt posted any pictures, i am curious.

broken link.
 
hmm weird it shows upfor me

lets try this:
tumblr_lvfzdhcpD71qbg2o5o1_1280.jpg


also, i added the collar and mouthplate patterns according to the written instructions.
if anyone wouldve told me in school, that i would need this much math in my life, i wouldve paid more attention :D figuring out how to get 11 spikes in a half circle was not an easy feat :D
 
This thread is more than 9 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top