Why do so many people think Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was good?

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Listen carefully to how I explain this:

My arguement in that post was that we should maybe pay the "cold fusion device" in STID no mind- just like we "already" pay the flaws in ST:II no mind.

Your counter arguement was not about what I was saying but rather (as usual) substituting a weaker arguement in its place that you then argue against.

Please look up Straw Man arguement once and for all and try to understand why I as well as others have difficulty having a discussion with you. Contrary to everything you might believe, we are not the problem.


Kevin

Thank the Maker, I was just circling back to say just about the same thing. Another issue is that instead of reading someones post and at the very least acknowledging that you might be wrong, Jeyl, you instead look for the slightest thing to latch on to and continue to argue regardless if it is germane to what is being discussed. It's tiresome and little odd and has been pointed out repeatedly and you just ignore it. This is a community, you can be off on your own island if you choose, but don't be surprised that your self imposed exile places you a bit on the outside looking in.
 
Sure looks like you were arguing that point.

Are you really this obtuse all the time? Again you are conveniently leaving out my entire post to argue your point.

Now I feel like I am repeating myself---

My argument was not exclusively about Saavik crying. But your response implies that it was. That is not only disrespectful, it is frustrating and insulting.


I want to illustrate what I am trying to say in the hope that you will maybe understand what I mean. Please bear with me-


Me: I think we should remove the candy vending machines from shcools.

You: Do you want the children to starve? Hear that everyone? He said he wants our children to starve!



But I'm of the mind that you are "never" going to get it; because you either don't want to, or just can't understand the difference. :facepalm



Kevin
 
Thank the Maker, I was just circling back to say just about the same thing. Another issue is that instead of reading someones post and at the very least acknowledging that you might be wrong, Jeyl.

Ok, if you want to talk about how I am wrong, by all means explain why Saavik crying is not right. I'm all ears. If you guys are willing to go into technobabble on transporters, what's wrong with going into characters?
 
Ok, if you want to talk about how I am wrong, by all means explain why Saavik crying is not right. I'm all ears. If you guys are willing to go into technobabble on transporters, what's wrong with going into characters?

Khan303b_zps847be6e0.jpg



Kevin
 
Are we talking about me, or the Wrath of Khan? Because I want to talk about the Wrath of Khan if that's alright with you.

Really? It seems more you want to disregard what everyone else says and simply plow ahead with your own agenda.
 
I may be getting confused here regarding whether you are talking about Genesis the 'device', The uninhabited planet where Dr. Marcus created the Genesis 'cave', the Genesis 'wave' triggered by the device, or the resulting Genesis 'planet'. The Enterprise was not in orbit around the Genesis planet when the device was detonated. It was somewhere in the Mutara Nebula.
Sounds like you are figuring the range of the Genesis wave in terms of the planet it would create, except beaming the device into open space would not 'create a planet' where none had previously existed. There would be little or no matter for it to restructure 'according to its own matrix'. Shouldn't the Genesis wave propagate unchecked until it either disapated its energy, or found something to tear apart and rebuild?

As it was the warp core of the disintegrating Reliant provided a rich cache of matter and anti-matter that combined with the prodigious quantities of 'comic 'schmutz' present within the Mutara nebula to create a sort of mini big bang that promptly coalesced into the new Genesis planet where the photon torpedo tube containing Spo
ody was targeted. Is it not the nebula becoming the new Genesis world that we see in the next movie? They don't drop the torpedo tube back at the planet with the Genesis cave do they?

Good point.

The series has shown that they could beam something far enough away if it threatened the ship (such as Nomad exploding). So the question now becomes: could they beam it far enough away that the creation of an entire planet would not affect the ship?

I guess that depends on the size of Genesis, and exactly how far away are they able to beam something.

According to Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (because I'm pretty sure there is no mention of the maximum range of the transporters in the first two films or the series... so we really have nothing else to go on for reference) the maximum safe range is 19,500 miles or 31,200 kilometers.

The transporter would allow them to beam Genesis over 31,000km away. And while getting away the Enterprise had travel 4,000km at impulse. So say at best they could put 36,000km bewteen themselves and the explosion.

How big was Genesis? Again there is no mention of it in the films, so going on that it appears to at least have the same gravity of Earth, let's say it is about the same size which is 12,742km. How about making it easy and rounding it up to 13,000.

So really they would only have to escape half that distance because they would need to be outside of half the diameter, but let's say to avoid any debris or the shockwave itself, they would have to travel twice that distance- 26,000km.

Exvept there is no real way to know what the "safe" distance truly was, AND the transporters were not working at optimum capacity. Scotty said he "barely" had transporter power before Kirk and company beamed down to Regula, and they had only restored partial main power when they returned.

Maybe they "could" have beamed it far enough away, but it is just as likely that they could not have, and the risk would be too great if they were wrong.

So going on this... I would say that Bryan and Michael are right that "not attempting" to beam Genesis off the Reliant, and concentrating on restoring warp drive "was" the right descision by Kirk!

**** that's awesome! :D


Kevin
 
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I may be getting confused here regarding whether you are talking about Genesis the 'device'...

Bro... :)

That was about whether or not the Enterprise "needed" to go to warp, or could have successfully beamed the device off the Reliant far enough away to not be affected by the creation of the Genesis planet (which yes, was the result of drawing in the Mutara Nebula to create the planet itself).

The reason for the discussion was that if they didn't need to go to warp (because they could beam the device into space instead) Spock would not have had to die.

We just got finished agreeing that having to go to warp rather than trying to beam Genesis off the Reliant was the right thing to do (meaning Spock did not die in vain).

Please let us have this rare moment. :lol


Kevin
 
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